My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...

[HumbleFish]

Unfortunately, I have dosed it with rock and substrate. I am just curious though, why do you believe it won't be eradicated? I understand that if there are eggs present in the rock/substrate , then the chloroquine could not penetrate the surface of the eggs, but the eggs cannot stay dormant for ever, and once they hatch, won't the cp kill any free swimming parasites, or at the very least, prevent them from living off any of the fish, or is there something I'm missing?

I believe rock/substrate absorbs CP (same as with copper), dropping it below therapeutic levels. At least with copper you can keep track of the absorption by using a test kit and dose more to compensate. No practical test kit exists for CP.

The rock/substrate probably leaches some of the medication back into the water (again, just like with copper), but who knows when/how much. I have nothing to back this theory up, except the countless failures I've read about where CP is dosed in a DT. I figure the main difference between using it in a DT vs. a bare-bottom, rockless QT (where I've had nothing but success with the medication) is the rock/substrate part of the equation.

 

[qasim99]

I believe rock/substrate absorbs CP (same as with copper), dropping it below therapeutic levels. At least with copper you can keep track of the absorption by using a test kit and dose more to compensate. No practical test kit exists for CP.

The rock/substrate probably leaches some of the medication back into the water (again, just like with copper), but who knows when/how much. I have nothing to back this theory up, except the countless failures I've read about where CP is dosed in a DT. I figure the main difference between using it in a DT vs. a bare-bottom, rockless QT (where I've had nothing but success with the medication) is the rock/substrate part of the equation.

Thanks, your theory certainly does make sense, I guess I'll leave the lights of for another week, in that case,.and quarantine any possible future cases. I am just worried.about.the tang, he doesn't like the.qt at.all. all my other fish are small fish, so shouldn't be.a problem to quarantine. I.also have a pair of blue throat triggers, but I've heard that they are very resistant to ich anyway. I will keep you posted on.whether it returns or not.

I just hope for my sake, that i might have dosed enough. I have a 450 liter tank and i dosed 6000mg of Chloroquine Sulphate (In the form of malaria drug called Plasmoquine) . Luckily i dont have that many rocks and sand, so i might get away with it. I definitely have no more than 50kg of rock and sand in my entire tank. (Shallow sandbed and around 30kg give or take of LR) . Do you recommed that i up the dose this coming week, or perhaps for another 2 weeks.. or should i just leave the current dose for a week and hope for the best?

 

[Dmorty217]

^^This is why I talk to my wife about my hobby in great detail, whether she wants to hear it or not.

Haha yes so do I, she just doesn't care about it as much as I do. The problem has sense been corrected and needless to say when I'm acclimating fish is work calls, I don't answer anymore. I treated my tanks today(not the DT) I have 250g of water total and dosed 10g of CP. All fish are doing well and actually seem to be more active after starting treatment. I saw my emperor twitching this am, my orange shoulder and clown tang were both scraping the rocks... Since starting treatment they have all stopped. It's still very early on for me but this far I'm liking what I'm seeing. This CP is from a new source so it will be intersting to see how it all works out. So far so good

 

[HumbleFish]

I am just worried.about.the tang, he doesn't like the.qt at.all.

I've QT'd a few hippos and they pretty much just hide in a PVC cave the entire time. Never lost one in QT though. They are weird fish anyway - jamming themselves in crevices like a trigger would. :wildone:

Haha yes so do I, she just doesn't care about it as much as I do. The problem has sense been corrected and needless to say when I'm acclimating fish is work calls, I don't answer anymore. I treated my tanks today(not the DT) I have 250g of water total and dosed 10g of CP. All fish are doing well and actually seem to be more active after starting treatment. I saw my emperor twitching this am, my orange shoulder and clown tang were both scraping the rocks... Since starting treatment they have all stopped. It's still very early on for me but this far I'm liking what I'm seeing. This CP is from a new source so it will be intersting to see how it all works out. So far so good

I wish you and your fish all the best. Is the new source a pharmacy or someplace else? I just don't trust the purity of CP sold on the Internet.

 

[Dmorty217]

I wish you and your fish all the best. Is the new source a pharmacy or someplace else? I just don't trust the purity of CP sold on the Internet. [/QUOTE]

Thanks Humblefish, it's not of the vet variety this time around so I will be documenting how this works. I can get vet supplied again,it just ends up being more $$, but if it isnt as pure then it doesn't really matter if I saved $$ or not... Water isn't yellow or cloudy so I'm feeling pretty good thus far.

 

[Dmorty217]

Well funny story of how my morning went today. I wake up and walk into the room with the 210 and 75 and hear a noise of the pump gasping for water. Well my coral beauty tried to go thru the 1" bulkhead from the 75 to the 210 and needless to say clogged the bulk and sent all but 3" of water from the 210g onto my floor... All my large fish were in the 210g and laying on their sides. I know the tank was fine at 340am when I let my dog outside but by 830 all the water was on the floor. Good news is all I lost was my coral beauty and my potters pair and Multibar are doing fine. It was crisis mode this am for me. Laying on the floor in water while trying to unplug strip outlets was interesting to say the least and I was shocked for several minutes. Got that problem fixed then my RO tube developed a leak, so it's been a long day. To top it all off I dosed my tank last night with CP and then essentially did a 75% water change because of the water loss. What should my next step be for trying to get the CP back to the proper dose?

 

[HumbleFish]

Oh man, that sucks. :eek1:

What did you dose CP at last night? The range is 40-80mg/gal, so I would probably dose @ 60 for 75% of the water volume to ensure it stays north of 40.

Everything I've read has said 40mg/gal does the job for ich, but I've dosed at 60 for velvet (for 1 month) and all the fish were fine.

 

[Dmorty217]

Oh man, that sucks. :eek1:

What did you dose CP at last night? The range is 40-80mg/gal, so I would probably dose @ 60 for 75% of the water volume to ensure it stays north of 40.

Everything I've read has said 40mg/gal does the job for ich, but I've dosed at 60 for velvet (for 1 month) and all the fish were fine.

I dosed at 40mg/g... 250g total volume(last night) 10g of CP. This time around I'm not putting as much water back in the 210 so I will measure where the water is and figure out what a full dose would be and then probably just full dose again. Fish don't have velvet, I know that without a doubt but do have ich so if I redose at the new volume for 40mg/g then I will be over 40mg/g but well under the 80mg/g

 

[HumbleFish]

I dosed at 40mg/g... 250g total volume(last night) 10g of CP. This time around I'm not putting as much water back in the 210 so I will measure where the water is and figure out what a full dose would be and then probably just full dose again. Fish don't have velvet, I know that without a doubt but do have ich so if I redose at the new volume for 40mg/g then I will be over 40mg/g but well under the 80mg/g

:thumbsup:

Just dose 40-60mg/gal whenever doing WCs, hold it there for one month and you should be golden. Sorry to hear about all the terrible luck.

 

[Dmorty217]

:thumbsup:

Just dose 40-60mg/gal whenever doing WCs, hold it there for one month and you should be golden. Sorry to hear about all the terrible luck.

When I redose tonight I plan on adding 40-60mg per gallon and I don't plan on doing any water changes for a month. Just keeping my ATO well full so water level doesn't change. Hopefully this time around my documenting doesn't start out with " woke up to 100g of water on the floor"

 

[Mike S]

I'm about a week into my treatment for velvet/ich. Other than the initial loses which I think were too far advanced everything seems to be doing fine. My desjardini tang was in pretty bad shape appears to be doing much better. The wrasses don't seem to be having any issues with the treatment. I did get my CP from an eBay source which it appears that there are some questions about. I also have some rock in my qt but I needed something to seed my canister filter. Ill probably remove it gradually over the next few weeks.

 

[martouf13]

I was wondering if anyone has used CP as a dip before introducing into a tank? I have been reading a lot about it but have not come across anything about this. There has been a lot of talk about success using CP in fish food if you can get the fish to eat it. Lets say leaving the fish in a 5-gal bucket that is dosed with CP for an hour or so. Since the water has the CP in it and the fish is swimming and drinking the water would it be possible for this to have a positive effect? Both internally and the fish just being in the water?

I know you should always QT a new fish before introducing it into a DT. However, let's throw that out the window and assume it's not possible for the purpose of this post.

 

[martouf13]

I also have a question about using a small 5-gal nano tank as a QT for new incoming fish. I don't plan on getting any large fish at the moment so do you think it's good enough? I don't really have the ability to use anything else at the moment. I am just now putting up a new 55gal DT. It has about 90lbs of live rock in it. If I were to take a small rock out and put it in the 5gal QT would that be good enough to get it nice and seeded? I am not new to the saltwater tank scene but it has been many years since I have done it.

I have never used CP before but from what everything I have read it seems like it is some really good stuff. I have used Hypo with success. Not a fan of copper myself and the rest of the crap is nothing but a lost cause from my experience.

I found some CP on eBay and all the reviews from previous purchasers have been positive so the stuff seems legit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/23113390903...49&var=530331098861&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Deinonych]

A dip won't do any good because CP only affects the swimming (theront) stage of the parasite. Any parasites attached to the fish (trophonts) will not be affected as they burrow beneath the epithelium. CP needs to be administered as a long-term bath (4 weeks) to ensure all theronts are killed.

I have not read of any success stories with CP-laced food.

 

[martouf13]

A dip won't do any good because CP only affects the swimming (theront) stage of the parasite. Any parasites attached to the fish (trophonts) will not be affected as they burrow beneath the epithelium. CP needs to be administered as a long-term bath (4 weeks) to ensure all theronts are killed.

I have not read of any success stories with CP-laced food.

I read several posts that stated that CP treats ich at all stages of its life cycle. It works in food if you can get the fish to eat it because the ich will ingest it while feeding from the fish. I also got some fish food with it already in it. Hope it works and the fish eat it.

 

[Deinonych]

I read several posts that stated that CP treats ich at all stages of its life cycle. It works in food if you can get the fish to eat it because the ich will ingest it while feeding from the fish. I also got some fish food with it already in it. Hope it works and the fish eat it.

Let us know how it works out.

As far as the life cycle is concerned, CP only affects the swimming (theront) stage, as it is the most exposed. In the trophont (feeding) stage, the parasite is buried under the epithelium, and in the tomont (encysted) stage, it is protected by a cyst. CP *may* affect the protomont (pre-cyst) stage, but there has been no documented evidence that this is so.

 

[HumbleFish]

I read several posts that stated that CP treats ich at all stages of its life cycle.

That is just a theory. One I would love to test out when I have more time/space for more tanks. No tests have been done to back it up (as far as I know).

 

[Deinonych]

Another thing to consider - if CP affected more than just the theront stage, it wouldn't require a lengthy treatment. All you would need is ~12 days (similar to tank transfer) to ensure that all trophonts have fallen off and have been eradicated, and you'd be done. Practical experience has shown this treatment length won't suffice.

 

[Dmorty217]

So I acquired my last fish I was hoping to get before retreating my QT system again after the catastrophe and am starting treatment again tonight or tomorrow evening (depending on how well the new acquisitions are eating) I will keep everyone updated as to progress or signs of stress. Before when I have used CP I only teated for up to 20 days. I think the concensous is that 3-4 wks has a much higher success rate at eliminating all ich the first treatment? Is this correct? Before when I did it the fish weren't showing signs of ich anymore and I didn't see it in my DT, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there all along. When my wife put the fish into DT instead of the QT for me that sealed the deal without question.

 

[HumbleFish]

I've always dosed CP the same as copper, 30 days.