My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

[Stoney Mahony]

No problem Maurod, There on pg 9 if you want to take a look. That would be awesome if you could test some of yours with the fluke tabs. The more testing and results we gather, the better we can beat these little suckers!

Melev: I totally understand. Hopefully I can go next year!

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8163585#post8163585 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sara B
I WOULD use tank water for QT water changes as you can kill all you acros by not using water that is biologically in balance from your tank. Trust me on this one ... I learned the hard way!

We are chaning how we do ours to use an old Aqua 15 W UV to run the tank water through on it's way to the QT tank. Using a maxi-jet 1200 to push the water up to the QT tank should be slow enough to nuke just about anything in the water, and since we are pushing the water up from our sump, there is even less chance of any pests hitch-hiking on the water stream (no corals in our sump, so no reason for any eggs, and we are pulling water from the return section, so any swimming larevae would have had to make it through everything else to get into the QT water anyways).

Hopefully that will be sufficient, but we may also add in a low micron filter sock as well, just to be safe.

Tom W

 

[maurod]

There's two bits of data I am dying to know - How long do the eggs take to hatch and how long before they starve without acros.



Fluke tabs will be picked up tomorrow. I'll post some results soon.
M.

 

[Sparkss]

That data has been posted multiple times in multiuple threads. All data is anecdotal. Gestation period is 14 days, days to starvation is 5. Minimum period for leaving tank fallow of acros 24 days, minimum generally accepted period is 1 month, although most go for 1.5 - 2 months, if they can.

 

[SaraB]

Sparkss - great idea on cleaning your water on it's way into QT! I have a spare UV as well ... let me know how it works!

 

[maurod]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8165470#post8165470 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
That data has been posted multiple times in multiuple threads. All data is anecdotal. Gestation period is 14 days, days to starvation is 5. Minimum period for leaving tank fallow of acros 24 days, minimum generally accepted period is 1 month, although most go for 1.5 - 2 months, if they can.

I've read every thread I coudl find. Did someone actually sit and wait for these eggs to hatch or are they going on what other flatworms seem to take?

M.

 

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8161498#post8161498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rogger Castells
I introduced tha FW in this solutions and to my surprise after almost 1 hour of dipping they were still alive!

Thanks for sharing. As I had mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a feeling the fluke tab dips (at the concentrations discussed in this thread) are not actually killing the FW's. It seems that the majority have decided that just because the FW's release from the corals and are laying motionless at the bottom of the container, it means they are dead. But I have seen FW's that looked dead as a doornail come back after being placed back in nonmedicated water for some time.

when I inspected them closely with an 8x lab magnifier I could clearly see that there were still moving the edge of the mantle.

This is interesting. Glad someone has been able to confirm if they were dead or alive by using lab instruments instead of assuming.

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8166462#post8166462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
[B
This is interesting. Glad someone has been able to confirm if they were dead or alive by using lab instruments instead of assuming. [/B]

I also used labratory equipment(microscope w/ 4x, 10x, and 40x, High resolution Magnifiying glass 4x & 8x) to determine that mine were dead...as I said earlier in the thread Travis. There was NO cilia movement and NO muscular contractions. Keep in mind this is his experience, not mine. I have been AEFW free for 5 weeks. I am glad that he is reporting his findings so that we can come to a conclusion if this works for everyone and what the best treatment dose and times are. Please don't try to discredit my scientific findings. You were against this treatment before you even saw any results...thats fine but don't just chime b/c it didn't work for somebody like a "ha ha I told ya so" and to try to make a point that it's just what you predicted....it's not needed. I am here to find a cure, and so far this has been it for me..

 

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8167474#post8167474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stoney Mahony
I also used labratory equipment(microscope w/ 4x, 10x, and 40x, High resolution Magnifiying glass 4x & 8x) to determine that mine were dead...as I said earlier in the thread Travis. There was NO cilia movement and NO muscular contractions. Keep in mind this is his experience, not mine. I have been AEFW free for 5 weeks. I am glad that he is reporting his findings so that we can come to a conclusion if this works for everyone and what the best treatment dose and times are. Please don't try to discredit my scientific findings. You were against this treatment before you even saw any results...thats fine but don't just chime b/c it didn't work for somebody like a "ha ha I told ya so" and to try to make a point that it's just what you predicted....it's not needed. I am here to find a cure, and so far this has been it for me..

You need to go read your posts no where did you say anything about observing them under any lab equipment . Nor did you say NO cilia movement or NO muscular activity .

The only thing I read out of your posts that refers to watching them is taking pictures over a 4 hr period and observing what apeared to be dead flatworms. There is nothing scientific about your dip regimine.Also 21 days is 3 weeks and thats was from your first post.

 

[Zoom]

You all have to stop!!! and try to see what works here .
I'm sure more reefers will try the fluke tabs and we will all know soon if work or not.

 

[clkwrk]

Right . I would but I killed mine with TMPCC and I don't really wanna deal with them again so I am stuck on doing my dip to incoming corals which has worked for me as well as many others. I am only a sceptic because this was tried in the begining of this lets find a cure and the results weren't a triumph always as a matter of fact it was ruled out at one point . I am not saying it doesn't work . I am saying it is very very possible it won't work everytime for everyone.

Also as backseat rider now in this thread I found it odd that one claimed to have clearly said something that they did not. It made me reread the whole thread to look for the facts I thought I missed .But I did not find those facts mentioned.

But since I have beaten this pest I will bow out now.

 

[Sparkss]

Thanks for your observations clkwrk, they are always welcomed (at least in my book )

 

[beapeams]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8164752#post8164752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
We are chaning how we do ours to use an old Aqua 15 W UV to run the tank water through on it's way to the QT tank. Using a maxi-jet 1200 to push the water up to the QT tank should be slow enough to nuke just about anything in the water, and since we are pushing the water up from our sump, there is even less chance of any pests hitch-hiking on the water stream (no corals in our sump, so no reason for any eggs, and we are pulling water from the return section, so any swimming larevae would have had to make it through everything else to get into the QT water anyways).

Hopefully that will be sufficient, but we may also add in a low micron filter sock as well, just to be safe.

Tom W

Make sure that your flow is less than I believe 110(might be 106gph) gph from the mj1200 to the UV. if it is faster than this there is no gurantee that it will kill parasites. Most of what I have read, and my Turbotwist 6x states a flow rate of less than 110gph to get parasites.

 

[beapeams]

Are they dead or they alive? If the fluke tabs cause them to release from the corals do we really care. If I do the treatement and they release when I pull them out and blast the corals for any strays (if there are any) and in the end there or no AEFW on the coral then mission accomplished. Because I don't know about you if they are still alive after the treatment, then they will soon be introduced to my sewer.

My corals have been doing great since I have started these treatments. I expect better results after My QT has a new light over it this week. Luckily my QT is a 30gal tank that has 3 inch sand bed and 50 lbs live rock, and has been running for 5 months now. I only had to bring up calcium levels and get a halide which will be here Thursday. I have done two treatments so far and had far fewer AEFW then the first treatment. If I could have QT them then I think they would have not been there at all.

I also did not know there were two types, a egg laying and a non-egg version. I just happen to turn my UV back on about two weeks ago, thank god because I have not found one egg on any of my corals so I might have a free floating version. I am anxious to finish this so that I can QT for life.

AEFW off with their heads!!!!!!

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8167735#post8167735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
You need to go read your posts no where did you say anything about observing them under any lab equipment . Nor did you say NO cilia movement or NO muscular activity .

The only thing I read out of your posts that refers to watching them is taking pictures over a 4 hr period and observing what apeared to be dead flatworms. There is nothing scientific about your dip regimine.Also 21 days is 3 weeks and thats was from your first post.

Another hater obviously...on every thread I go to lately. Your so cool clkwrk. If you will go back and read pg9 in my second post where I am defending myslef from you originally, quote"I played with em for a while....I mean even put a few on a microscope(which IS lab equipment) and they were either dead or in the deepest worm coma ever". Now b/c I didn't tell you what magnifications I used, it's not scientific? I don't think you have any qualifications to be telling me what is scientific and what is not. A measured dose over a period of time in a given amount of solution is not a treatment plan? Give me a break. Most reefers aren't going to have a bunch of calibrated equipment to take measurments with and that's why I posted a treatment that everyone could use. I don't want people to have to run out and have someone with a scale that goes to the ten thousands place or get a grad cylinder for a simple dip.

When I say dead, there is obviously going to be no cilia movement or muscular functions. Should I have named off all the AEFW's life processes that stoped functioning? Also you try to call me a liar saying it's been 21 days since my first post and that three weeks.....LOOK AT MY FIRST POST, last line...quote: "Again, only 2 weeks into tests but 40+ acros and there all lookin good" which would make five weeks (3 + 2 = 5) right???I didn't post results the same day I did the tests.

It's people like you that make me not want to contribute to this site at all. Should I also tell you what I do for a living, my education, where my lab is located, and all other background information?? Maybe that would help you with all of your assumptions. I could take video on a p-scope and you still would'nt believe me... I don't really care anymore.

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8168331#post8168331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk

Also as backseat rider now in this thread I found it odd that one claimed to have clearly said something that they did not. It made me reread the whole thread to look for the facts I thought I missed .But I did not find those facts mentioned.

But since I have beaten this pest I will bow out now.

Glad you could point that out Clkwrk. It makes one of us look really silly. Maybe you were a little tierd when you "re-read" the thread.

 

[poknsnok]

Stoney... we all appreciate the work you have put in... you given us something to work with and hope in a possible new safe and effective treatment against these pests. dont let the criticism from the vast minority deter you from continuing your good work..

 

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8167474#post8167474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stoney Mahony
Please don't try to discredit my scientific findings. You were against this treatment before you even saw any results...thats fine but don't just chime b/c it didn't work for somebody like a "ha ha I told ya so" and to try to make a point that it's just what you predicted....it's not needed.

My bad, I didn't realize this thread was only for discussing the positives of the fluke treatment and not the possible negatives.

And no I wasn't against this treatment before seeing any results. I have been following these treatments for over 2 years, which is before anyone in the US was even reporting on them. Over that time, I saw many try the fluke tabs and heard a lot of negatives and very few positives. What I was against was you coming into this thread pretending you were the great one that did all of the research and came up with this treatment, when people had been doing it for over a year already. And I am still following along in this thread hoping that this is a successful treatment because I hope and pray that a treatment that kills all FW's and does not harm the corals does come about. Whether or not the fluke tabs is that treatment, I'm not sure.

You looked at your FW under a microscope... That still doesn't verify much. Someone needs to remove the FW's from a dip container right after the dip period and reintroduce them to non-medicated water and give them some time to recover. Then observe them to see if they are dead or alive.

Now b/c I didn't tell you what magnifications I used, it's not scientific?

I stand corrected as I didn't remember you using the microscope. However, I still don't think it is "scientific" say they are dead just because they are laying motionless in treatment water.

 

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8168532#post8168532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beapeams
Are they dead or they alive? If the fluke tabs cause them to release from the corals do we really care. If I do the treatement and they release when I pull them out and blast the corals for any strays (if there are any) and in the end there or no AEFW on the coral then mission accomplished.

This is up to each person individually. For me, I do care because I don't want to risk any possibility of a FW making it past a treatment. Just because you see a lot of FW's laying at the bottom of the treatment container does not mean that every single one of them fell off the coral. If any of them could still be alive, they could still be clinging on deep inside the branches or in a crevice. I learned this after doing a 40 ppm levamisole treatment. I thought all of the FW's were gone because they were all laying motionless at the bottom of the treatment tank. There were still some trapped in branches and crevices but those came out with a powerhead. But I knew this wasn't a successful treatment because when round 2 came, I found a couple FW's that made it through round 1. That is when I upped the dosage to 60ppm, which was strong enough to kill them rather than stun/paralyze them for the time being.

If people feel confident enough that a FW won't make it past a treatment that does not effectively kill them, then that is fine. I would rather not play russian roulette though. I had to tear apart my 280 gallon tank and treat 80+ colonies. I wanted to make darn good and sure that I would never have to do that again.

 

[Neptune777]

When I read the posts by Travis and Clkwrk it reminded me of a pack of Hyenas watching the herd…. just waiting for one of the antelope to get sick or injured….then BAM! They go for the throat….Poor form IMO.

Not sure who you guys are referencing when you say the Fluke Tabs were tried and abandoned early on (besides who makes that final determination?)….I could not find detailed information concerning what doses were used (other than the one on the bottle), and how a failure was determined (i.e. didn’t kill the AEFW’s, or the treatment killed the corals). Stoney was kind enough to post in this forum with his success and how he did it….with extremely detailed information to back it up! I believed him and tried the exact same method he used and guess what? I had the same results he did. My AEFW’s were dead and remained that way (they actually curled up nose to tail so to speak).

My advise to everyone is to try the Fluke Tabs out for yourselves rather than listen to 2 folks who seem to have doubted them from the beginning, and have not tried the treatment themselves………I believe in this thread there have been several positive accounts of this treatment working extremely well……I have also read this in other forums/sites……Have a wonderful day everyone!