my rice experiment

[icycoral]

So my new test kits came in today copper, silica, and a better no3 test. After testing my tank water I have
No3 2.5ppm
SiO2 .25ppm
Cu 0 undetectable (redsea kit)

I tested my rice water sample, which is 1 cup white long grain rice in 2 cups saltwater that has been soaking for 5 days. The water is kinda cloudy from not rinsing the rice as this is a worse case test.
Silica 1-2 ppm
Copper 0 undetectible
No3 0 undetectible

 

[tmz]

Ok lets look at what's in white rice:

Carbohydrates 79 g
Sugars 0.12 g
Dietary fiber 1.3 g
Fat 500 mg
Protein 7.12 g
Water 11.62 g
Thiamine (Vit. B1) 0.0701 mg (5%)
Riboflavin (Vit. B2) 0.0149 mg (1%)
Niacin (Vit. B3) 1.62 mg (11%)
Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.014 mg (20%)
Vitamin B6 0.164 mg (13%)
Folate (Vit. B9) 8 μg (2%)
Calcium 28 mg (3%)
Iron 0.80 mg (6%)
Magnesium 25 mg (7%)
Manganese 1.088 mg (54%)
Phosphorus 115 mg (16%)
Potassium 115 mg (2%)
Zinc 1.09 mg (11%)
Source: USDA Nutrient database

The carbohydrates and sugars go into the fermentation process and provide organic carbon along the way to glucose then ethanol and then acetate. A simple version as I understand it.
The vitamins : B1 ,2,3,5,9 all contain nitrogen as do the proteins which when they breakdown may ultimately go to NO3.Likely the fiber contains some nitrogen too.

Good skimming could remove most of the fat , I suppose.

 

[Du]

He did a 10gal waterchange I think is a 10 or 20% Something it is happening on the people who is on the Rice Train is that the KH and Ca is going down, what do you think is happening with this?

Imo, this is normal. First reason is increase of calcification speed due to lower po4, and second - calcification by plankton in rice reactor.

 

[icycoral]

Update

Update

Day 12
Levels:
Sg 1.025 :fish1:
Ph 8.0 :fish1:
NH3 0 :fish1:
NO2 0 :fish1:
NO3 2.5 :fish1:
PO4 0 undetectable
SiO2 .25 :fish1:
Kh 8 :fish1:
Ca2 440-460 :fish1:
Mg2 1350 :fish1:
Orp 291mV

Got a couple new test kits today including a better nitrate test and a silica test kit. Still not as accurate as a photometer for checking PO4 and NO3 but it's what I have to work with. Tank looks good haven't noticed anything new. All live stock seems happy lol. All sps, lps, softies, clams, shrimp, feather dusters, coco worms, brittle star, cucumber all seem good. A couple of my sps corals seem a little bit lighter/brighter but nothing drastic. My orp has been continuously low after adding the rice save last Friday when I did my water change. We'll see how it goes when I do tomorrows water change. The rice in my reactor is holding up well, and the rice that had been soaking for five days on my table is still as hard as it was when I put it in :celeb1: . My kh mg and ca levels dropped a tiny bit but that's because of an adjustment to my calcium reactor. It was set at 30 drops per minute it's now at 20 drops/min and still at 8 bubbles/min co2 input. Just to let you know I do spike my reactor with dolomite at about a 1:12 ratio. All in all I have aprox 1/5-1/6 the amount of cheato in my fuge section, it's slowly dieing and and my n/p seem relatively low. I remember testing my nitrates a couple month before this experiment and got 10-20 ppm. That was before I set up my makeshift refugium. And a something I would like to make note of is that after my algae really started to take off my skimmer stoped pulling skimmate I'm guessing because the cheato was using up doc's before the skimmer could take them out. But even so I think my corals could have been brighter and that's why I deceided to try this experiment with rice. It's funny because I haven't seen my skimmer pull more than a 100 cc of dry skimmate in one and a half weeks time is now pulling 100cc + per day and I'm very happy to see brighter colors in a few of my corals like the Miami hurricane chalice I have

 

[icycoral]

Imo, this is normal. First reason is increase of calcification speed due to lower po4, and second - calcification by plankton in rice reactor.

My mag kh and Ca levels went up a bit I actually adjusted my reactor down.

 

[daveonbass]

Day 12
Got a couple new test kits today including a better nitrate test and a silica test kit. Still not as accurate as a photometer for checking PO4 and NO3 but it's what I have to work with. Tank looks good haven't noticed anything new. All live stock seems happy lol. All sps, lps, softies, clams, shrimp, feather dusters, coco worms, brittle star, cucumber all seem good. A couple of my sps corals seem a little bit lighter/brighter but nothing drastic. My orp has been continuously low after adding the rice save last Friday when I did my water change. We'll see how it goes when I do tomorrows water change. The rice in my reactor is holding up well, and the rice that had been soaking for five days on my table is still as hard as it was when I put it in :celeb1: . My kh mg and ca levels dropped a tiny bit but that's because of an adjustment to my calcium reactor. It was set at 30 drops per minute it's now at 20 drops/min and still at 8 bubbles/min co2 input. Just to let you know I do spike my reactor with dolomite at about a 1:12 ratio. All in all I have aprox 1/5-1/6 the amount of cheato in my fuge section, it's slowly dieing and and my n/p seem relatively low. I remember testing my nitrates a couple month before this experiment and got 10-20 ppm. That was before I set up my makeshift refugium. And a something I would like to make note of is that after my algae really started to take off my skimmer stoped pulling skimmate I'm guessing because the cheato was using up doc's before the skimmer could take them out. But even so I think my corals could have been brighter and that's why I deceided to try this experiment with rice. It's funny because I haven't seen my skimmer pull more than a 100 cc of dry skimmate in one and a half weeks time is now pulling 100cc + per day and I'm very happy to see brighter colors in a few of my corals like the Miami hurricane chalice I have

I'm a little bothered by this post. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff going on in the tank...so much so that it's literaly Impossible to know what exactly is helping ur tank the most. I've done this too...and it's frustrating to not be able to pinpoint what piece of equipment was the most successful. I'm hoping that by having a system with no prior methods of N and P contol that a tank like mine will contribute more to the experiment of using rice.

 

[icycoral]

Some pics taken earlier today 7/28/10

My Armor of the gods

Candy apple reds

Miami Hurricane this thing was purple until the rice now it's a jewel (please excuse the coraline on the glass)

My scolly have to say the purple was a little deeper befor the rice but now the red is more intense

Blastos the red is a little pale but otherwise nice

My rainbow acan not a yukis 10 but then again I only paid $10

Will take some pics of sps tomorrow

 

[icycoral]

I'm a little bothered by this post. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff going on in the tank...so much so that it's literaly Impossible to know what exactly is helping ur tank the most. I've done this too...and it's frustrating to not be able to pinpoint what piece of equipment was the most successful. I'm hoping that by having a system with no prior methods of N and P contol that a tank like mine will contribute more to the experiment of using rice.

I did throw alot of detail in that post let me simplifiy for you. 3months ago I put a small fuge in my sump. However I saw no change in coloration of corals. Because of that I decided to try the rice. Since the rice reactor I have been removing macro algae to 1/6 of what I had and seeing better color and low n/p. I also turned down my calcium reactor.

 

[Du]

I have been removing macro algae to 1/6 of what I had and seeing better color and low n/p. I also turned down my calcium reactor.

This is the reason increasing of CA and Alk level. Macroalgae is calcium consumers also.

 

[kkil4life]

day four over...

NO3 looks like 20ppm. I'll try to post a pic soon. I need to charge my phone. But the short story...NO3 has risen by 5ppm. Not to pleased with that result.

dave can you do two things.
first run the skimmer without the collection cup for about 2 hours or so. this will just stop u collecting any skimmate and give the bacteria a chance to enter the tank. just run it like that for 2 hours, then start skimming again.
see what happens.

second can you tell us the brand and type of rice ur using, if you give me the brand maybe I can look it up on the web and see whats causing this.

 

[kkil4life]

my rice reactor

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looking good dez, keep us posted.

 

[kkil4life]

This is a message from COLT:

My tank:

My tank is for NPS so I have to feed all my inhabitants every day 2 or 3 times per day so the NO3 and PO4 are very important thing, I use to get my NO3 in a low level (0) with Lanthanum chloride. When I started with the rice I stopped dosing the Lanthanum chloride.

After 6 days on the Rice Train my NO3 goes up to something between 2 or 5 (the color chart is not too accurate), so there is something with the rice that increases the NO3 and for another posts I think we all have this issue, I will keep an eye on this but maybe we all have to share if this is a common issue

About my configuration I have the rice reactor attached to an active carbon reactor just in case the heavy metals issue:

Regards

colt, a few things. first I think u meant po4 not no3 cuz lanthanum chloride gets rid of po4 by binding to it and being skimmed out.
did u get a bacterial bloom even a slight one?
for some reason I think its important to get a bloom with rice......maybe like highlandreefer said, the bloom is not a good thing, but it might be opposite for rice.

dont worry about ur no3 levels if they are up to 2 or 5, its not a major concern, and I'm sure that within a few days it will drop again.

please let us know how ur NPS corals reacts, as ur the first one with an Nps tank trying the rice.

 

[kkil4life]

He did a 10gal waterchange I think is a 10 or 20% on his tank and yes the colors on the chart are very similar, the test now is 10

It seems something between 10 and 20 Tomorrow he's going to do another waterchange and post the params.

Something it is happening on the people who is on the Rice Train is that the KH and Ca is going down, what do you think is happening with this? does any body had this issue?

We have a new passenger in the Rice Train his name is Abel Arriaga and he started today the important thing with Abel is that he lives near the ocean and he does his waterchange with sea water, lets see how his system reacts with the rice.

Regards

I think it was testing error. if you change 10% of water, ur no3 will go down only 10%. so if it was 50, then it would be 45 now.
so I think he made an error with that test.

Kh and CA, infact I noted that mine went slighty up, this is interesting.

welcome to abel, lets see how his system reacts.

also can you please ask everyone there what TYPE of rice they are using. I think we are seeing good results with PLAIN rice, but other rice with added stuff is taking a bit longer to show results.

 

[kkil4life]

checked again.

no3 is "between" 15 and 20ppm it's not quite orange enoug to be 20, but seems a little darker than yesterday.

PO4 is still 0. No increase.

take pics, this way u dont have to doubt urself.
and u can compare them everyday

 

[kkil4life]

it'd probably taste the same

If no change in PO4 then chances are the stuff in the "fortified" layer is being released into the water and consumed by bacteria, but not rice powder, since if there are so much rice powder turned into nitrate then there ought to be some phosphate as well.

how are u so sure that the rice powder turned into nitrate?
when you make such absolute comments it turns of quiet a few people from this project. care to explain ur above sentence?

 

[dez_2121]

just notice this morning some not alot but some off my algae is starting to turn brown and die off in my book thats a win

 

[daveonbass]

day five afternoon...NO3 still around 15ppm. So 5 days no change in params.

 

[kkil4life]

day five afternoon...NO3 still around 15ppm. So 5 days no change in params.

dave try running ur skimmer without the cup for 2 hours, this will give the bacteria a chance to get into the tank.
this is an alternative to u using another pump for the reactor.
I'm sure if do this for a whole day(run without skimmer cup) u'll start seeing a difference.

what about ur algae on glass or rock or anything else? do u visually see any difference?

 

[kkil4life]

just notice this morning some not alot but some off my algae is starting to turn brown and die off in my book thats a win

this is indeed a good sign, I think once ur algae starts dieing off, u will see reduction in nutrients.
what about ur glass, how often do u normally clean it and how often do u have to clean it now?

 

[daveonbass]

I will try that when I get home. Bare in mind that when cleaning the cup I have the skimmer just flowing through...i don't have to turn it off. So there has been plenty of time for bacteria to enter the tank.

today there was a lot LESS skimmate built up. Normally up to now I'd have 3 to 4 times as much...this afternoon it was just a tiny bit.

as far as glass and algae on rocks..no change.

same problem I had with BP. Could be that my skimmer was just removing the fats and stuff from the rice...and now the rice is inert...just like the BP were. Apparently I have a strange tank.