my rice experiment

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Guys go back to page 19 and read what Cliff wrote about vitamin b's on fortified rice.

They are probably the source of the initial NO3 bloom that some folks have experienced.
 
DJREEF said:
Go back a few of pages and review the discussion forward a page or two. It may help you with your decision.

DJ
Click to expand...

Acrotrdco said:
Guys go back to page 19 and read what Cliff wrote about vitamin b's on fortified rice.

They are probably the source of the initial NO3 bloom that some folks have experienced.
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Oh I know guys. As for the b vitamins I would think they are a coating and are water soluble, I rinsed the heck out of my rice. As for the rest of the discussions from the heavy metals to the different bacterial processes there are a lot of what ifs. As for the metals there are lots of variables are they bound how fast are they released will the skimmer pull them out are dosing them in supplements already"¦ And the discussions on the bacterial aspects, well all I got out of that is there are many different processes that may or may not be occurring. And that not enough flow through the reactor could be a really really bad day (H2S).
 
@dj so come on spill it man do you think it's protien from the rice being broken down or something else? what about coltreefs post on pg 24 about shaking the reactor to remove the floc or mulm? Am I missing something(most likely).
 
icycoral said:
@dj so come on spill it man do you think it's protien from the rice being broken down or something else? what about coltreefs post on pg 24 about shaking the reactor to remove the floc or mulm? Am I missing something(most likely).
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Protein contains ~20% of nitrogen. So, in rice (100g) we have 7000 mg of proteins or 1400 mg of nitrogen. In 300L of water it will be ~5mg\l as N or ~15-20 ppm as No3. But this is for completely degraded rice.
 
I'm still now seeing any reduction in NO3. I'm not really seeing a sharp rise either...but definitely no reduction. My RBTA looked terrible all day, if it's like that tomorrow then at the end of two weeks I'm removing rice for good. I guess it's onto the next idae for BP. Maybe a different brand will work better.
 
icycoral said:
@dj so come on spill it man do you think it's protien from the rice being broken down or something else? what about coltreefs post on pg 24 about shaking the reactor to remove the floc or mulm? Am I missing something(most likely).
Click to expand...

I think it's a combination of things. As Cliff stated earlier there are industry additives to contend with initially, then there's the whole time release protein degradation issue thereafter. I'm wondering if going to an USDA certified organic source would allay some of the initial problems with vitamin contamination, or at least lessen them to a degree. I would feel better about this process if no one was getting increased NO3 levels in the beginning.

DJ
 
OP:
Was your rice reactor running in your sump while it was disconected (return pump off) ?

if not, how would the rice "leach out" and contaminate the whole water column of the sump?
 
icycoral said:
Hmm I'm more leaning towards the protien causing problems then fermentation
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I doubt that the fungus is a cause.

gorgonians in particular are very susceptible to this type of fungus, in my experience with them in 2009 I had a problem:

DSC00442.jpg

102_1833.jpg


at the time found this information by Katharina Fabricius and Philip Alderslade, and I think that's what affects gorgonians.

Particulate and disolved nutrients originate from very fifferent sources in oceanic and coastal water. Oceanic Waters in the tropic are chronically nutrient-depleted by planktonic growth and associated grazing processes, hence they Are clear and blue. However, currents sporadically push cool, nutrient-enriched, deeper water up the slopes of continents and atolls. Such upwelling significantly boosts the concentrations of available disolved nutrients in offshore surface Waters, although frequencies and extent vary widely between regions. Such regions are often denominated by xeniid soft corals (Fabricius and De'ath 2000), wich have been shown to take up and use disolved nutrients (Schlichter 1992 a, b). In shallow coastal Waters, food concentrations are more variable and often higher than offshore, because of the terrestrial run-off of nutrients, and the resuspensión of bottom sediments. In wet tropical areas, nutrient-and sediment enriched river Waters Floyd into the sea, enhancing concentrations of nutrients and sediments, and stimulating phytoplankton blooms and microorganismo growth.
Such areas tend to be dominated by alcyoniid soft corals in the shallow water (irradiance becomes limiting at greater depth). In many parts of the tropics, Waters pollution is considered a major distrbance for coastal reefs.
Chronic discharges from sewage outfalls, and run-off from deforested and agriculturally used land add nutrients, top soil, and pesticidas to the coastal Waters. Run-off is said to contribuye to the decline of nearshore ecosystems, and depending of the on the ectent of run-off, problems have been recorded from the shore to tenso f kilometers off the coast. Most zooxanthellate soft corals are Messing in higly polluted areas, and those azooxanthellate gorgonians wich are able to grow in polluted areas, often show high susceptibility to fangal infections, colonisation with algae, barnacles, bryozoans or anemones, and a high level of parcial mortality
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In the Caribbean, the fungus Aspergillus, wich is typically associated with terrestrial soil and does not sporulate in sea water (Smith et al. 1996), causes widespread infections and mass-mortalities in Gorgonia ventalina an G. flabellum. The mass mortalities were linked to large river floods importing high sediment loads (Garzon-Ferreira and Zea 1192), and chronic infections were discussed to be a consequence on increased sedimentation from soil erosion (Nagelkerken et al. 1197)
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Yesterday I cut back to 1/5 flow reactor output to try to do it anoxic.
PO4 and begins to decrease with lanthanum.
NO3 apparently unchanged (<> 0 ppm)

I keep removing floc and mulm, but there is almost no longer.
 
coltrref said:
I doubt that the fungus is a cause.

gorgonians in particular are very susceptible to this type of fungus, in my experience with them in 2009 I had a problem:

at the time found this information by Katharina Fabricius and Philip Alderslade, and I think that's what affects gorgonians.
Click to expand...

You can't know what type of fungus is growing in icycorals tank or anyone elses. There are many types of fungus and the one affecting the gorgonians in the caribbean is Aspergillus but there are many more especially if you count fungus that are usually terrestrial or freshwater in origin but could live in saltwater but not become sporulated.

There are particular fungi that feed on grains e.g. ergot fungus which is highly toxic that lives on rye grass. They are usually quite specific about the environmental conditions but some can adapt. I wouldn't rule this out as something which could cause a potential problem.
 
coltrref said:
Yesterday I cut back to 1/5 flow reactor output to try to do it anoxic.
PO4 and begins to decrease with lanthanum.
NO3 apparently unchanged (<> 0 ppm)

I keep removing floc and mulm, but there is almost no longer.
Click to expand...

IMO anoxic conditions would do more harm than good. If it goes completely anoxic that will promote suphate bacteria and produce hydrogen suphide which can be toxic at low levels.
 
Update

Update

Day 19
orp 298mV (yup turned the ozone back on)
Sg 1.026
pH 8.1
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 10ppm :mad:
PO4 <.1
SiO2 <.25
Mg 1400
Dkh 8
Ca 420-440
So not much to report today cept more of a rise in no3. Trying to figure what the difference is from the first reactor of rice and this one that may be causing the elevated nitrate. A couple of variables I can think of are that I used 1/4 cup more rice this time and I swapped out my skimmer for a larger one last week. But I'd think the larger skimmer would not raise anything. I rinsed the rice just as well as I did last time. All my corals look great though. go figure.?
 
icycoral said:
Day 19
orp 298mV (yup turned the ozone back on)
Sg 1.026
pH 8.1
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 10ppm :mad:
PO4 <.1
SiO2 <.25
Mg 1400
Dkh 8
Ca 420-440
So not much to report today cept more of a rise in no3. Trying to figure what the difference is from the first reactor of rice and this one that may be causing the elevated nitrate. A couple of variables I can think of are that I used 1/4 cup more rice this time and I swapped out my skimmer for a larger one last week. But I'd think the larger skimmer would not raise anything. I rinsed the rice just as well as I did last time. All my corals look great though. go figure.?
Click to expand...

Was it a brand new skimmer? May just need to break in is all, then all is back to normal.

DJ
 
No it was a used skimmer. After it arrived I cleaned it with vinegar. since it was water change day I saved my "old" tank water to try the "new" skimmer. I put the used water and the skimmer in a plastic tub, after like 20 min it had a foam head. For giggles I dumped my old skimmer nog in too. After 45 min it pulled >100ml of skimmate quickly (I added 100ml from my old skimmer) and started to slow down. So I rinsed it off and swapped out the skimmer I was using with the new one. Within 15-20 min in my tank the skimmer had a foam head. At that time I replaced the rice in my reactor. Within 3 hours the "new" skimmer pulled 400ml of crud out of my tank. I emptied the cup and went to bed. When I woke up it had 100ml in the cup. It is collecting a bit less skimmate now, under 100 ml per day and it's skimming wet. The skimmate looks much clearer. I will take a picture and post it to compare the nog. I was using a Tunze 9005 skimmer I'm now using a Tunze 9010 skimmer
 
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