My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Wally.B]

Here is the rough plan which has already started.

Since I really want a Fresh Start, without Looking at and 2nd guessing Compromised Frags. No what if's at all.

I am going to move all frags not encrusted on Rocks into Frag Tank.
I will not add any of the DT removed water to Frag Tank. (I don't trust the water). Lately it has been only new Water Changes in FT.
The Frag tank has really matured over last while. Algae gone away, water crystal clear, Coraline started.
One thought since I have a Oversized Skimmer on the FT is I may get one big fish for nutrients. (just an thought, not sure about fish).


So basically for SPS DT only the Bonsai stays, maybe the Pink Tipped Millie in the middle that hasn't been hurt.
I also keep the Branching Cyphystrea, and Tubinaria.

I'll keep the Red Planet, Green Slimer, and the few frags purchased last week at the back. (out of view)

I will scrape off that Plating Monti since I've always hated it. and I personally think it's dead That's where Tubinaria will go.

I didn't finished the Sand Bed removal on the right side of tank and it's constantly kicking out left over sand and really annoying me.
This will required removing rocks on other half of tank.
Much needed adjustment since a two large rocks are swaying a bit in current.

Of course the Sump will be lightly overhauled.

The new SPS tank will be NEW FRAGS only in visible sight (From Front of tank).

A few of the NEW Frags I have doubles, so same ones will go into Frag Tank (DT to FRAG tank Comparison)

I have a fresh bottle of Zeo Bak, so during Water changes, I'll keep toping up Bacteria.
Should these changes affect my Copepod population for Mandarin, I have a Copepod Tank, teaming with live Pods.

If this reset, and these new Frags *FAIL* over the course of weeks or 3 months.
I will GIVE up on SPS only tank.
And start 2018 on a new journey. Mixed Tank with some SPS.
No choice.

Right now I am preparing those two 50 Gallon Bins with Water as fast as my RO system can make water.

 

[Wally.B]

SANBED in Refuge Chamber of Sump (System BIO).

This to me is hard decision.

That 2-3" sandbend in the Refuge is the only Live Sand I have in my system.
It should stay since I'm sure that's a significant BIO factor in my system. And where the Copepods thrive.

I do have the Marine Pure Bio Ball wall in my sump, and it's pretty efficient, so a light rinse will be sufficient to clean it, but keep Bio.

Plus the Live rock in DT will be another age BIO component.

However if I really want to remove any possible Past Contaminants, leaving Sandbed in refuge would give me one "what if".

 

[reefmutt]

Wally, the snowball is getting bigger..
Just a water reset. I don't think there are any contaminants..
If you do this you will be scrapping the whole thing and starting over.
Not even sure you the gravel removal and rock cleaning is a good idea...
The point of this is to just reset parameters, not overhaul the entire system.
You have the basics in place and they are good. Trust them.
Don't disrupt everything.

 

[Wally.B]

Wally, the snowball is getting bigger..
Just a water reset. I don’t think there are any contaminants..
If you do this you will be scrapping the whole thing and starting over.
Not even sure you the gravel removal and rock cleaning is a good idea...
The point of this is to just reset parameters, not overhaul the entire system.
You have the basics in place and they are good. Trust them.
Don’t disrupt everything.

ok. Easier.
No point in trying Frag tank at this point. Except for the doubles.

 

[Wally.B]

Adjustable (Acclimatization Frag Rack) MID/Middle of Tank (For New Fresh Frags).

I don't want to mount the new Frags right away. Possibly in a few weeks.

I hate Tank Rack on back of Tank Glass since it makes glass cleaning a chore.

It is very sturdy, so the Frags won't flip off. (Tilt able for Photo Taking)

Strong OLD Tunze Pump Magnet, but I can raise to acclimate to strong lighting if needed.

I like the fact that it will be Middle Tank so even Above Lighting, rather than One Sided Light Exposure when at the back of Tank.

I can see the Frags from Office Front view,
and get better pictures of progress as these next Frags will Mushroom into Massive Colonies that will even Impress Ed and Matt.

 

[sensei]

BEFORE (BIG Double 40% Water Change) All will be Triple Checked

I mixed up my first 20 Gallons of Instant Ocean Salt.

Now I have some concerns.

--> I need to ensure my Salinity is correct.
--------> I have two Refractometers
--------> I have a bottle of (OLD but tightly CAPPED) Salinity Calibration Solution 35
----------------> I Calibrated both Refractometers.
I tested the IO Salt Water Mix to ensure S.G. is 1.025, with Both Refractometers (they both Match)

To extra check I pulled out my two VERY OLD Salnity HydroMeters which I don't trust
----------------> One HydroMeter Show S.G = 1.021
----------------> One HydroMeter Show S.G = 1.020

Puzzling!!!!
Not the difference between Hydrometers, the Difference between HydroMeters and Refractormeters.

Could my Calibration Solution be Wrong!!!!
-----------> Evaporation of Calibration Solution would increase S.G.
-----------> That would be a big explanation for many problems
---------------------> I doubt that Cal Solution is off, but I will be figuring this out before anything is done.
---------------------> If My Salinity is that much off, due to inaccurate Calibration Solution then my Kitchen Tank would also have problems.
--------------------------------> Plus on occasion I would use Refractometers to check FragSuppliers S.G. and it would be close to 1.025 (so I trusted them)
** PLUS I calibrated Refractometer using the 0.00 RO water method, and that gave me S.G.=1.025 (So the Refractometer are correct. Hydrometers are NOT)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--> I checked ALK of Water IO Salt Water Mixture Supposedly @ 1.025 ALK=9.5 dKH

That raises another question.

--> If my Display Tank still has ALK=8.0 dKh:
-------> First 40% water change will change DT ALK from 8.0 to 8.6 (Alk Spike!)
-------> 2nd 40% water change will change DT ALK from 8.6 to 8.96 (Alk Splike!)

Things to think about, before proceeding in any way.

I understand that Matt wants to do a water reset and in this case it makes sense to do those two large WC.

If you do not want to have that alk spike, you could prepare the salt water with the new salt and leave it prepared a couple of days and alk will drop every day.
maybe 3 or 4 days could do the trick. you can even test the prepared alk water every two days to see the drop and see when it is ready for that big WC.

this could also be helpful and it will tell you how many days before you need to prepare this new salt so that alk is near to your desired level.

Matt,
about 6 months ago I wanted to get rid of fluconazole in my frag tank. I dosed to get rid of bryopsis. it worked beautifully and no sign of stress or discoloration.
when I did the 1st 30% WC ( WC had alk nearly at same value of tank and I saw some deterioration. then next week I did the 2ndo 30% and one acro decolored completely.) I guess they did not like the big WC. it has taken around 6 month to gain color back. I do not have an explanation of why this could have happened?

I think you have suggested this big WC to do a reset and start from zero even if some of the animals in there do not like it but Wally will be trying new frags any way, correct?

big WC should always be avoided, except extraordinary cases, correct?

I am not questioning in any way the method you have proposed, I just want to learn and this is I have asked.

thanks a lot.

 

[Wally.B]

I understand that Matt wants to do a water reset and in this case it makes sense to do those two large WC.

If you do not want to have that alk spike, you could prepare the salt water with the new salt and leave it prepared a couple of days and alk will drop every day.
maybe 3 or 4 days could do the trick. you can even test the prepared alk water every two days to see the drop and see when it is ready for that big WC.

I don't understand, what you are suggesting.
How does ALK drop with Water prepared in a bucket when ALK isn't consumed by Corals?

The only gradual way would be:

1st Water Change I do TM Salt only.
2nd Water Change I do 50/50 TM/IO Salts
3rd Water Change I do IO Salt only

Gradual ALK, Gradual Salt Change.

Against mixing Salts advice, but I'm mixing Salt in Tank Regardless.

** I HAVE LIMITED TIME ** The reason for the Frag Sale was to moved out Frag for new Shipment. I have to pickup Frag tomorrow.
Tonight I should be able to do 1st Water Change.
Tommorrow 2nd, and then put in Frag.
3rd will have to be with Frags in Tank.

 

[sensei]

alk in natural sea water is at saturation levels.
components of alk are in equilibrium in salt water and equilibrium favor the other way of the equation and precipitation occurs. Alk will drop unless you add it back.
you can test freshly prepared alk water and test 2 days later and you will see.

It would be best to more the frags after you do the big WCs, if not maybe it is better to be less aggressive with the changes.

 

[Wally.B]

I just made up 35 Gallons of TM Salt Water, and lots of Salt left.

I remembered that TM Salt mixed up 200 Gallon of Water per Bucket.

IO Salt Same bucket only make 160 Gallons.

Looks I have enough TM salt to make another 25-30 Gallon.

Might be a good idea to do most of the Reset with Like to Like Parameters using the TM Salt. 35/30 Gallons. No Alk Spike at all.

Then do the last Water change 20 Gallon Water change with IO Salt. Small ALK Spike and the Beginning of Transition to IO Salt.

 

[Wally.B]

I will find out if my Refractometer Solution is good.

But that can come later, since right now I need to just match the New Water Salinity to the DT.
DT is 1.025 according to Meter, so New Water will be mixed the same (whatever it is).

If it's off slightly (which I doubt) that correction can come much later, slowly.

Fish don't need any Salinity or Temp Spike during these Water Changes.

 

[reefmutt]

I just made up 35 Gallons of TM Salt Water, and lots of Salt left.

I remembered that TM Salt mixed up 200 Gallon of Water per Bucket.

IO Salt Same bucket only make 160 Gallons.

Looks I have enough TM salt to make another 25-30 Gallon.

Might be a good idea to do most of the Reset with Like to Like Parameters using the TM Salt. 35/30 Gallons. No Alk Spike at all.

Then do the last Water change 20 Gallon Water change with IO Salt. Small ALK Spike and the Beginning of Transition to IO Salt.

Yep. Sounds like a good idea and removes any concerns about dramatic alk shifts..

Sensei, please feel free to question or challenge anyone you feel may not be giving sound advice- including me. I never feel insulted or disrespected by others standing up for what they feel doesn't make sense to them. This is a place to share ideas, challenge them and come up with better, more enlightened ideas.
Wally has addressed your concerns about a dramatic alk shift by using the tm pro which matches his tank's alk already.
Once the new Corals go in, they will receive another big waterchange with the same type of salt.. should be fine..
Then, going forward with IO in smaller changes, won't cause any issues...

Yes I would say huge water changes should be reserved as a drastic measure. In wally's case, he really has like two sps corals that are looking the slightest bit healthy- even though his big wcs won't affect alk because he's using his tm pro salt, in his case, with so little in the tank, wcs with another salt really can't hurt much because there's almost nothing to hurt.
Also, between time constraints and the efficiency of a huge wc to affect quick positive results, there is good argument for it..
If I came home to my reef to find that someone had dumped.. say a big container of seachem's reef advantage Calcium (ca, mag, Sr) into my tank, I would probably consider a couple of huge water changes to try to rebalance. If I could, I'd use a salt with as low an alk as possible since my tank sits around 6.5-7..
in your case, after your fluco treatment, having corals brown out, I don't know if I could reasonably blame it on the water changes... maybe they didn't like the fluco, or whatever the bryopsis left behind as it died, or the lack of skimmer for a month (if you turned your skimmer off). It's really hard to tell what caused it.. it's pretty hard to say exactly what caused it.
Two weeks ago, I dosed fluco in a client's tank, today, I felt the corals looked pale.. more brown.. I am noticing that beside the bryopsis dying, hat much of the hair algea is also dying.. and from last week to this one, there was virtually no build up of algae on the front glass. Clearly, fluco affects more than just bryopsis.... maybe it even affects zoox to some degree.. hard to say..
3 days ago, I added a treatment of fluco to my tank.. the bryopsis is getting a bit thin and dark looking..
We'll see where that goes..
Anyways, yes, huge wcs have a use, I think, when done properly but no, not a good idea as regular maintenance technique for sps..

 

[sensei]

perfect :thumbsup:

 

[Wally.B]

Absolutely MIND BOGGLING (THE Corals Have Come to LIFE) Just before the DOCTOR

You are not going to believe this.

First. Nothing has been done yet.

I have 50 Gallons of TMP Salt Water Ready, but I wanted to finalize the plan.

I ran the Effective Water Change Calculator through a many Scenario's to figure out Most Effective use of the TM Water, and think towards a IO Salt Change.

So my Analysis as shown below concluded on the following PLAN (I'll explain)

Basically in a nutshell, I was looking for a best TM Salt Water change strategy, before new FRAGS Arrive Tomorrow. I have to pick them up and I have no place to Hold them (Frag Tank is a BUST).

What I arrived on is a 2 Phased Approach:
---> PHASE 1 ---> No ALK Change, but Water Refresh
---> PHASE 2 ---> Introduce IO Salt (minimal ALK Impact/Spike)

So WC plan was:

1A) 30% TMP Salt Water change
1B) 30% TMP Salt Water change

2A) 10% IO Salt Water Change
2B) 10% IO Salt Water Change

Effectively Changing: (60.5% of the Water, and only increasing Alk by 0.285 dKH) using 80% Tank Volume Water.


Phase 1 will be next 24 hours.
Phase 2 I'll decide on when. Possibly Delay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE COMES THE SHOCKER!!

Before Starting, I was decided I would:
1) Test All Water Parameters
2) Photograph All Photos

LAZY ME, started with Step 2. I started Photo Documentation.

All the Corals have done some kind of Reversal.
Believe me, I know what my corals look like daily. WORSE!!!

But they all of a sudden look Vibrant. Some that have never had PE have PE, and Damaged Ones are bursting with PE.

Even the Forest Fire Looks better than yesterday.

HERE IS PROOF (THese photo's were just quick snapshots, not adjustments)

Yes they may look pathetic to you by GURU standards, but I see something in the Positive Direction.

This RED PLANET, I thought had a couple more days to LIVE (at the back)

Yeah, Forest Fire is terrible, but look at Previous Post, it was worse, and I tell you it's on upward path. I can tell since I watch that baby daily, if not hourly.

W.T.F. is going on. I did nothing to water yet!!!

Could this be a delayed reaction to the Too Strong Current fix earlier?
Can't be that. Corals that were moved out of Current have been declining till today.


SO ARE THE CORALS Telling me. PLEASE Don't do a massive Water change with IO Salt

 

[Wally.B]

I am still moving forward as planned for Phase 1.

I will evaluate things after each change, and observation.

 

[Wally.B]

I have never once said in last 6 months (My Corals are doing Better). Today is the first time.

I could tell (since I watch Frags with my NOSE SQUISHED AGAINST GLASS daily/hourly) that something has changed today, before I even turned on the camera (and started zooming in). I could see DIFFERENT noticeable colors, glow and PE.

The blurry quick photo's I took were with Circulation Fully flowing, MH/T5 fully on.

When I say Doctor coming, I mean BIG water change pending.
I may have scared the Corals, since I took out the degrading GREEN slimmer and put it into Frag Tank with Different Salt and ALk. It went into complete shock, and shed whatever damage it had, (but interestingly the left over little parts woke up)...That is weird too. (But I doubt it will survive)

 

[Wally.B]

COULD IT BE THE PH Correction with the AIRLINE!!!??? (Just TWO DAYS AGO)


That could be it!!!!

Maybe I should hold off on BIG WATER CHANGE. Just do 20% a few times, with a Pause in between.

 

[Wally.B]

Thanks to Reef Central and Thanks to Apex (I think I found my Problem) Air Line Rupture (PH nuts), and Since then ALL downhill with TANK

I'm 99% convinced I found the ROOT CAUSE of my Grief and Unexplainable FRAG problems for last 2 months.

I looked through my APEX PH Data, and I found the Airline Rupture Break.

July 21st, 2017, it ruptured.

PH was 7.86 to just over 8, just like it appears to be heading to over last couple of days after (Airline Fix).

I looked through this Thread History, and things were going pretty good before then.
My Red Dragon was looking best ever, and improving.

Sure some things were not perfect, after July 21s is one NOTHING but bad.

I blamed it on begin away on vacations, other small mishaps.

Then I started trying to fix what wasn't broken.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

That airline rupture point was near water level, it may have been coming and going and Apex PH Graphs shows some crazy PH swings, and burps, and recoveries, and drops.

All along I was questioning PH, but I blamed it on bad air during Summer, etc.
Since I was just looking at he Apex Display an usually a low number.
I never checked the graphs till recently.

We'll see, but I think the future may be brighter.

I wonder if my Algae scrubber could have also stopped because of this. Since the timing is DEAD on.

 

[Wally.B]

DAMN RIGHT. (My Alk just started DROPPING like Never Before over last while).

Alk was just over 8.0 dKH couple of days ago, when I stopped dosing, was 8.0 yesterday , AND now it is 7.3 dKH, which is a significant drop in a day,
which explains the look in the Tank. Corals are coming back to life. (Slowly after so much abuse).

I'll keep watching ALK but I bet that I'll have to Dosing back on very soon. (Small amounts, but things could speed up with New "Eager Beaver" Frags Coming Tomorrow)

 

[Wally.B]

Too Soon to Pop Any Champagne (But new Guests are coming to Town)

Yes, I am desperate, so any glimmer of resolution I get excited about.

But I've been there before, and everything at this point is just a hope.

But there these folks are coming to town (Tomorrrow).

The are not High-End Show Stoppers, but a good variety to test the tank out.

Can't go wrong with the Clearance prices.
Won't cry if I loose any.

Plus a few I got to split off the plugs to try in DT and Frag Tank.

I won't be letting my Guard down, just because I saw a "Glimmer of Hope" today.

I have a Ton of Water on Standby, should I need to revive the Reset Plan.

Taking this one step at a time.

 

[reefmutt]

Sounds promising. I hope it was just the ph.....
I still see nothing wrong with doing the one prepared 30% wc before frags arrive.. it’ll just bring alk back up to where it was yesterday. Isn’t going to shock anything.
Then see how they do.
That blue one in the second group of photos, bottom left. That’s the frag I was looking at! But I think I got one anyways. I look d yesterday and he seemed to have another up on the website. I snagged it.
Well, I really hope you some success this time!
Don’t forget you also recently stopped dosing two part...