My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Wally.B]

Watching SPS (3 Months) Will be Tough [ Need to Frag and Save ][/SIZE][/B]

Hard to watch Frags Deteriorating. But I have to try.

Last month wasn't best, so maybe things will change.

Here is one example why I should possibly Frag Some of the Frag and Put into Frag Tank.

A tiny Piece of Pollicipora broke off original Frag. I put into Frag Tank.

So to see if things are better in Frag Tank, I broke off a piece of SPS tank Frag, and put Damaged piece in Frag Tank. Will it recover?


I am seriously considering doing the same for the Forest Fire.

 

[reefmutt]

my personal belief is that between the dosing and the adjusted waterchange water, the chemistry got messed up and made it difficult or impossible for the Corals to lay down proper skeletons.
Looking at those frags makes me think this as well..
Besides the bonsai which looks to have the best chance at recovery, I think they all look pretty bad..
Every time you cut them into smaller and smaller pieces, you lessen the chances for survival. And their chances weren’t great to begin with...
Cut away.. I think they are right offs..
Go get a few 7.77 sps frags (if any remain) from March, put them in your sps tank and just leave them alone.
All of (or most of) your pieces seem to have been compromised.
I’m wondering if a few large wcs might be a good idea to properly reset things in there. But with simple instant ocean..
Then a few super cheap sps- and then wait and watch. ...
This is what I would do, anyways..

 

[Wally.B]

my personal belief is that between the dosing and the adjusted waterchange water, the chemistry got messed up and made it difficult or impossible for the Corals to lay down proper skeletons.
Looking at those frags makes me think this as well..
Besides the bonsai which looks to have the best chance at recovery, I think they all look pretty bad..
Every time you cut them into smaller and smaller pieces, you lessen the chances for survival. And their chances weren’t great to begin with...
Cut away.. I think they are right offs..
Go get a few 7.77 sps frags (if any remain) from March, put them in your sps tank and just leave them alone.
All of (or most of) your pieces seem to have been compromised.
I’m wondering if a few large wcs might be a good idea to properly reset things in there. But with simple instant ocean..
Then a few super cheap sps- and then wait and watch. ...
This is what I would do, anyways..

I jumped on the $7.77 sale right away. Got a bunch.
But I got them before your suggestion.
Got them for another plan.

I was thinking of throwing then in the frag tank and compare the 3 month DT wait to the frag tank.

But I was thinking how am I going to keep nutrients good in the FT without fish, or not trusting DT water to bring over nutrients.
Was even thinking getting one big fish for FT and trade him back to store later.

But you suggest a reset of DT using IO salt.
Waiting for DT with damaged corals might be a waste of time.

I can go either way. What would you choose between the two choices. 777's in DT or FT. I like you idea DT a bit better since less work. But what if there is really something wrong in DT? Oh well just 7.77x7

 

[reefmutt]

So it was you who took all the nice blue tenuis frags for 7!! I wanted one..

Id say, try to get some doubles, do the reset on the sps tank and place some in each system.
See which system does better ..

Without your intervention- other than to monitor and react only if absolutely necessary.

 

[Wally.B]

So it was you who took all the nice blue tenuis frags for 7!! I wanted one..

Id say, try to get some doubles, do the reset on the sps tank and place some in each system.
See which system does better ..

Without your intervention- other than to monitor and react only if absolutely necessary.

Sorry, if I took any blue tenuis. If I did I only took one.
I really don't know what I bought. I just clicked on a few with different colors/variety. My order receipt doesn't show pictures.

But I like your idea, of getting doubles.

I already got the IO salt since I was a few feet from Fish store when you posted.

I'll discuss how to do things shortly.
Later tonight I'll make up some IO water, and do a 15 Gallon Water change.
Then we can talk about where to place.

Perhaps I'll toss a few more FRAGS from DT in FT. So Front of tank is only good FRAGS.

Stay tuned.

 

[Wally.B]

Matt,

I owe you so much for everything.

So it would make me so happy to be able to give you something in return. A small token of my appreciation.

If I have the frag you want it is yours. Free.
I will arrange with March to move it to your order if you got some others. I will be dropping by store tomorrow.

I am going to look for a double replacement since the order does have frag numbers that I can match up.

Stay tuned.

 

[Wally.B]

Matt, I got Frag #13,24,22,12,10,11,4.
Look them up and if any are the blue tenuis, it's yours.
Busy right now helping daughter study.
But I will look for doubles when I'm done.

 

[reefmutt]

Hey Wally, that is very nice of you but really, I was joking.. I don’t know when that sale started- I only got an email tonight and checked things out - basically everything was sold but I really don’t mind.
Besides, none of my advice has really paid off yet.. let’s do this, when you have corals that are growing and fraggable, I’ll be happy to take some of those.

Now, I’m terms of that reset.. how many gallons is your sps tank? If I remember, a 15 g wc isn’t much of a reset, I don’t think.. I’m thinking a couple 40% waterchanges..back to back.

 

[Wally.B]

Deal.
If you manage to help me raise frags big enough to share, I'll give you anything you want.

So my SPS tank is a 65 Gallon. But with Sump it's 100 Gallons Total (Minus equiptment and rocks), so around 90 Gallons of water in System.

If you suggesting 40% Water change, are you suggesting Total. So around 35-40 Gallons.

Next Question. Back to back is how far apart. One tomorrow since 40 Gallons will take a bit of time to make.

Then followed by another one is a couple of days, in a week? (ie when 2nd WC?)

 

[reefmutt]

Deal!
Yes total system volume..
The next I one as soon as the time it takes to make the water...
That’s a decent parameter reset imo.

 

[Wally.B]

hmm. Been thinking how I would do a 40% WC without lowering water level and DRYING SPS corals.

But I can do a 35% Gallon Water Change if I drain my sump totally. Then 5% from DT. Something like that.

Not a bad thing. I can clean Sump out nicely out from the Detritus, and long over due to clean pumps, hoses, skimmer, while I'm at it.

Things like Bio wall, live rocks, in sump can be rinsed and held in buckets for a few minutes to not dry them out.

The tank is Glass Bottom now, so no residue there.

I'll leave the Refuge which is Deep Sandbed for bio retention and copepods.

 

[Wally.B]

Matt,

This isn't the "don't touch for 3 month plan" we discussed.
It's better since we'll start from Toxin Level purge (if any), on top of the Water Param. Rest.

There will be no "what about this/that" for the next 3 months. Since Water won't be to blame, Sump clean from past, and new WC and Dosing routines.

Something had to be done since this Simple Forest Fire Digi is telling me that either (past or present) there is/was fundamentally something wrong (even though it was in Reasonable Lighting, and Moderate Flow).

I'm going to be quick since I did get the recent Frags that are still healthy.

But I will plan this out, prepare my setup, and be thorough (check/clean sump for anything lost/loose in there, etc).

I won't clean/scrub sump walls since the bacterial build up, biology need to be somewhat retained.
Refuge with Sandbed Stays untouched.

I'll have 9x frags that are recent/pretty good (5 are very new) and 7x Brand New 7.77specials on the way.
All others will stay at back, or move there.

I look forward to mixing up the Instant Ocean Salt as find out what the ALK/CALC/MAG parameter are. (Never used this salt ever before)

ANY LAST MINUTE SUGGESTIONS? (Anyone)

 

[Wally.B]

BEFORE (BIG Double 40% Water Change) All will be Triple Checked

I mixed up my first 20 Gallons of Instant Ocean Salt.

Now I have some concerns.

--> I need to ensure my Salinity is correct.
--------> I have two Refractometers
--------> I have a bottle of (OLD but tightly CAPPED) Salinity Calibration Solution 35
----------------> I Calibrated both Refractometers.
I tested the IO Salt Water Mix to ensure S.G. is 1.025, with Both Refractometers (they both Match)

To extra check I pulled out my two VERY OLD Salnity HydroMeters which I don't trust
----------------> One HydroMeter Show S.G = 1.021
----------------> One HydroMeter Show S.G = 1.020

Puzzling!!!!
Not the difference between Hydrometers, the Difference between HydroMeters and Refractormeters.

Could my Calibration Solution be Wrong!!!!
-----------> Evaporation of Calibration Solution would increase S.G.
-----------> That would be a big explanation for many problems
---------------------> I doubt that Cal Solution is off, but I will be figuring this out before anything is done.
---------------------> If My Salinity is that much off, due to inaccurate Calibration Solution then my Kitchen Tank would also have problems.
--------------------------------> Plus on occasion I would use Refractometers to check FragSuppliers S.G. and it would be close to 1.025 (so I trusted them)
** PLUS I calibrated Refractometer using the 0.00 RO water method, and that gave me S.G.=1.025 (So the Refractometer are correct. Hydrometers are NOT)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--> I checked ALK of Water IO Salt Water Mixture Supposedly @ 1.025 ALK=9.5 dKH

That raises another question.

--> If my Display Tank still has ALK=8.0 dKh:
-------> First 40% water change will change DT ALK from 8.0 to 8.6 (Alk Spike!)
-------> 2nd 40% water change will change DT ALK from 8.6 to 8.96 (Alk Splike!)

Things to think about, before proceeding in any way.

 

[Big E]

If you have any doubts, get some fresh calibration solution. You can make it yourself if you don't want to buy it.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

In my expreience hydrometers are seldom accurate but they are consistent. They can be used as long as you know what the fudge factor is.

You may want to do smaller perecentage changes when changing salt brands. There can sometimes be issues doing too much all at once. The calculator can come in handy for this as you can gauge how much you need to do till you have purged most of the old water.

 

[Big E]

Thank you Ed,

one more question about alk:
I thought that going bellow 7.0 in alk was a problem for corals, so I asked in a thread about that:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2649477

I was surpriced that DiscusHeckel said that his acropora seem to be happier at alk bellow 7. His target is 6.5 -6.8 .
he said that occasionally his alk has gone bellow 6 and nothing happened to his acros. how can this be?
I am not sure if he is ULNS
Why do you need very low levels of alk in ULNS??

thanks a lot

Going below 6.0 short term may not be a problem but over a few months it may not work. I've had problems with base recession when it went that low on me.

6.5-6.8 isn't that far off from 7.0(commonly used standard) when you also factor in each users testing technique, test brand, and error range of any test kit. In Randy's article he states natural seawater as 6.3-6.9

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php#2

I always considered anywhere from 7-10 okay as many tanks for decades have run here. People with low nutrients have claimed tip burn on levels too high above 7.0, I don't have experience with that as I don't run ULNS.

There may be other variables involved in best alk levels, so it seems to be tank specific. Stick to a range that your corals look healthy and growing. It's more important for it to be consistent and stable than meeting an empirical target.

 

[sensei]

Going below 6.0 short term may not be a problem but over a few months it may not work. I've had problems with base recession when it went that low on me.

6.5-6.8 isn't that far off from 7.0(commonly used standard) when you also factor in each users testing technique, test brand, and error range of any test kit. In Randy's article he states natural seawater as 6.3-6.9

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php#2

I always considered anywhere from 7-10 okay as many tanks for decades have run here. People with low nutrients have claimed tip burn on levels too high above 7.0, I don't have experience with that as I don't run ULNS.

There may be other variables involved in best alk levels, so it seems to be tank specific. Stick to a range that your corals look healthy and growing. It's more important for it to be consistent and stable than meeting an empirical target.

thanks a lot!

 

[Wally.B]

If you have any doubts, get some fresh calibration solution. You can make it yourself if you don't want to buy it.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

In my expreience hydrometers are seldom accurate but they are consistent. They can be used as long as you know what the fudge factor is.

You may want to do smaller perecentage changes when changing salt brands. There can sometimes be issues doing too much all at once. The calculator can come in handy for this as you can gauge how much you need to do till you have purged most of the old water.

Understood. Salt change has other impacts, but there isn't much to worry about since no Colonies, other than that very nice Tubuilarnia.

Keeping Fish alive and healthy is VERY IMPORTANT., but salinity and temp will be matched.

I could run the Auto Water Changer Daily (Small amounts) to achieve the same result, but that will take a lot of time.
Been doing twice a week changes, and trying to change that method.

I have an idea, which is to use up the last bit of Topic Maurin Pro Salt. (As a first Reset)
I may have just enough for two 40% water changes.
And there would be no ALK swing.

Then I could slowly transition to Instant Ocean.

 

[reefmutt]

If your calibration fluid was tightly capped, it really shouldn’t ‘go bad’..
I’d trust the refractometers over the hydrometers.
I agree with Ed about the hydrometers.. they are never accurate but they are consistent.

As for wcs.. you don’t have much to lose in there but using up your tm pro for the reset and then transitioning to io is a god idea..

 

[Wally.B]

Here are my thoughts about the RESET.

I like the idea of purging my SUMP, and cleaning it out from Detritus, etc.
Sump is 35 Gallons of Water.

I have enough Topic Maurin Salt to make 40 Gallons .

-> So I do first Water Change in SUMP/ using last 40 Gallons of TM Salt.
-> Then I start additional Water changes with Instant Ocean. Something like 2x 30 Gallons.

Using the Calculator with a 40 TM/30 IO/30 IO Gal Water change is roughly 81% water change. (Basically the same as two 40% water changes using IO)

The SALT Brand transition is more gentler. ALK transition is gentler too (Same change, but distributed over 3 WC changes).

One things as Ed mentions about, is nutrient Drop won't be as drastic, since I will feed fish over the period of time.

I could still get this done in a few days.

 

[reefmutt]

I like it!