Myka's 69 SPS Tank 2015

[Myka]

So I got the Triton results back today. I'll put Triton results, and my results from the same batch of water in brackets.

Ca 396 ppm (Salifert 405 ppm)
Mg 1424 ppm (Salifert 1290 ppm)
K 363 ppm (Salifert 420 ppm)
PO4 0.010 ppm (Hanna ULR 0 ppm)
P 3.11 ug/L (Hanna ULR 0 ppb)

That's all that I could also test for. Note that 1 ug/L is 1 ppb.

Some parameters that were strongly deviating...

Sulphur tested at 507 mg/L, setpoint is 900 mg/L.
Vanadium was undetectable.
Zinc was undetectable.
Manganese was undetectable.
Iodine tested at 14.77 mg/L, setpoint is 60 mg/L.
Molybdenum tested at 2.36 mg/L, setpoint is 12 mg/L.
Iron was undetectable.
Barium was 267 mg/L, setpoint is 10 mg/L.

I might try additions of V, I, Mn, and/or Mo. If I do this, I'll start one at a time and see if I can see any changes. I have no idea why Barium is so high. I haven't worked out if that's a concern or not, or where it may be coming from. I asked Aquaforest where in their system are they supplying Sulphur and they have yet to give me an answer. Usually you see Magnesium sulfate in mixes, but AF mixes the Ca and Mg together in Component 1+, so they cannot be using MgSO4 or it would precipitate out. I think this Triton test tells me that AF is indeed not supplying Sulphur. I'm curious to see how other AF tanks test.

I'm reading Randy's article about his Triton results, and trying to cipher out what to do with my own results. http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

 

[Myka]

Here's the full report. Sample was taken from tank 8.11.16.

 

[2una]

Thanks for posting those results Myka....Interesting to see your dosing of "E" & there's no copper(Cu) showing up

 

[Myka]

Thanks for posting those results Myka....Interesting to see your dosing of "E" & there's no copper(Cu) showing up

Yes, both Coral E and Component 1+ have copper in them, and apparently there is less in my tank's water column than the LOD for the testing. Triton lists the Cu LOD at 1.18-3.5 ppb or 0.00362-0.01073 ppm. Cu in seawater is around 0.00038 ppm, so copper in seawater is way below the limit of detection of the Triton testing, so theoretically, we should never see copper on the tests.

 

[Myka]

The tinkerer awakens...

So I got the Triton results back today. I'll put Triton results, and my results from the same batch of water in brackets.

Ca 396 ppm (Salifert 405 ppm)
Mg 1424 ppm (Salifert 1290 ppm)
K 363 ppm (Salifert 420 ppm)
PO4 0.010 ppm (Hanna ULR 0 ppm)
P 3.11 ug/L (Hanna ULR 0 ppb)

So, I'm going to experiment a bit...

First, I'm going to experiment with increasing potassium to 440 ppm on the Salifert kit which provided neither I nor Triton made any mistakes, should be around 383 ppm. I'll do this during today's water change, and will report back.

My second experiment will be to increase iodine. I am researching this now, and will report back.

My third experiment will be to lower Mg to 1200 ppm on the Salifert kit, which should be around 1334 ppm. I am confident that neither Triton, nor I made any mistakes because both myself and Triton tested another tank at the same time and I tested Mg at 1290 ppm, and Triton tested at 1423 ppm, so that is almost exactly the same. I'm not sure how I will do this since if I cease Components 123 dosing and just dose "raw" Ca chloride and Sodium carbonate then all the other macros and micros will also fall, and they are all (besides Ba) on the low-ish side anyway. So I'll think on this...

My future experiments will be to increase Manganese, Zinc, and Vanadium. That's further down the road though...


The tinkerer in me in pretty freaking thrilled right now!

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Hi Mindy,

I am very surprised about the discrepancy between ICP and Salifert, in particular in potassium results. Salifert so far deviated by only 20 ppm from FM multi-reference solution. Your experience questions the accuracy of FM too.

 

[2una]

Yes, both Coral E and Component 1+ have copper in them, and apparently there is less in my tank's water column than the LOD for the testing. Triton lists the Cu LOD at 1.18-3.5 ppb or 0.00362-0.01073 ppm. Cu in seawater is around 0.00038 ppm, so copper in seawater is way below the limit of detection of the Triton testing, so theoretically, we should never see copper on the tests.

Mine came back showing Cu 9 ug/l & i'm fighting to get my bacteria to work properly ---it was my 1st ICP i'd done - was only very cautious with Coral E dosing like max 3 drops/week building it up but perhaps it came from the Comp ABC or perhaps it came from something totally differant.
Did run cuprisorb for 24h but still have the bacteria not kicking in dosing 3 times recommended ProBioS/NpPro dose so cuprisorbs gone back in as of yesterday & we'll see what happens

 

[Piper27]

Mindy, be careful raising your potassium above 430. I raised mine one time and my acros burned pretty good at just above 435. It was a pretty good burn too, took a while to come back around and I had to clip a LOT of tips. Let us know what happens.

 

[Piper27]

Also barium can come from certain po4 removers from what I have read. Have you been using a po4 remover?

 

[Myka]

Hi Mindy,

I am very surprised about the discrepancy between ICP and Salifert, in particular in potassium results. Salifert so far deviated by only 20 ppm from FM multi-reference solution. Your experience questions the accuracy of FM too.

Yes Bulent, I was surprised too.

Mine came back showing Cu 9 ug/l & i'm fighting to get my bacteria to work properly ---it was my 1st ICP i'd done - was only very cautious with Coral E dosing like max 3 drops/week building it up but perhaps it came from the Comp ABC or perhaps it came from something totally differant.
Did run cuprisorb for 24h but still have the bacteria not kicking in dosing 3 times recommended ProBioS/NpPro dose so cuprisorbs gone back in as of yesterday & we'll see what happens

Are your Acros bleached? If not, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Mindy, be careful raising your potassium above 430. I raised mine one time and my acros burned pretty good at just above 435. It was a pretty good burn too, took a while to come back around and I had to clip a LOT of tips. Let us know what happens.

Hi Paul. If the Triton test is accurate, I would be raising K from 363 ppm to 383 ppm. The Salifert test kit will say 440 ppm, but according to the recent Triton test the Salifert kit is reading almost 60 ppm too high. You are right though, I will probably see some tip burn if Triton made a mistake... :facepalm:

Also barium can come from certain po4 removers from what I have read. Have you been using a po4 remover?

No, I haven't used any PO4 removers in this tank at all.

I contacted ENC Labs which AFAIK are one of the top seawater labs in the USA. I was told that it is very common for an ICP test to give a false high Barium reading in seawater. I'm not too concerned about it anyway since Barium is only soluble in seawater to about 60 ug/L anyway, so the ICP testing has obviously released Barium from a compound that it was bound in, and cannot be an accurate measurement of the amount of Barium in the water column. I'm curious what the Barium level is though, so I will probably get ENC Labs to test Barium for me, and while I'm at it I will get them to test alkalinity, dissolved organic carbon (since Triton doesn't test these), and double check potassium too.

 

[biggles]

I have the potassium at 450 on Salifert now Mindy - just in case............ :beer:

Not a single acro pic to be seen btw......... not a one........

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Hi Paul. If the Triton test is accurate, I would be raising K from 363 ppm to 383 ppm. The Salifert test kit will say 440 ppm, but according to the recent Triton test the Salifert kit is reading almost 60 ppm too high. You are right though, I will probably see some tip burn if Triton made a mistake... :facepalm:

Mindy,

Have you read this article?

Are you in a position to cross check your tank water with a different test company just to put your mind at rest?

I personally trust my Fauna Marin reference solution more than anything else simply because it agrees with Salifert reference solution (KH and Ca). Habib of Salifert once sent me a calibration solution for his calcium test kit as I raised concerns over one particular batch I purchased several years ago. FM was 100% consistent with his reference solution, which demonstrated that the test kit produced 20 ppm too high a result. Furthermore, as you probably know Elos High Sensitivity test kit is calibrated at lab. It is very dependable. FM solution is 100% consistent with Elos too. I tested this on different batches.

Regarding the Salifert Potassium test kit, I cross checked two different test kits against FM, and on both occasions Salifert test kit produced 20 ppm too high a result. In fact, I told you about this a while ago.

Consequently, I would seriously question 60 ppm deviation. I would at very least check Salifert against FM before increasing potassium just in case. It is of course perfectly possible that your test kit is from a bad batch. Just saying ...

 

[Myka]

I have the potassium at 450 on Salifert now Mindy - just in case............ :beer:

Not a single acro pic to be seen btw......... not a one........

Be careful Andrew! This potassium result has not been proven yet. I have a hard time believing a 60 ppm deviation.

Oh yeah, the Acros... :dance: They are kinda boring right now.

Mindy,

Have you read this article?

Are you in a position to cross check your tank water with a different test company just to put your mind at rest?

I personally trust my Fauna Marin reference solution more than anything else simply because it agrees with Salifert reference solution (KH and Ca). Habib of Salifert once sent me a calibration solution for his calcium test kit as I raised concerns over one particular batch I purchased several years ago. FM was 100% consistent with his reference solution, which demonstrated that the test kit produced 20 ppm too high a result. Furthermore, as you probably know Elos High Sensitivity test kit is calibrated at lab. It is very dependable. FM solution is 100% consistent with Elos too. I tested this on different batches.

Regarding the Salifert Potassium test kit, I cross checked two different test kits against FM, and on both occasions Salifert test kit produced 20 ppm too high a result. In fact, I told you about this a while ago.

Consequently, I would seriously question 60 ppm deviation. I would at very least check Salifert against FM before increasing potassium just in case. It is of course perfectly possible that your test kit is from a bad batch. Just saying ...

Thanks for your post Bulent. I have seen that article, and there are a few like it as well. This is exactly why I call the Triton test the Can of Worms Test. :lol:

As mentioned above, I'm going to get ENC Labs to check my water. Results will be delayed though as they are currently in the middle of moving locations. I do question a 60 ppm deviation - that's huge.

In the meantime, I tested potassium this morning using the Salifert kit and got 390 ppm, so I added 10 grams of Brightwell Potassion-K (which is waaay less than the ~2 tsp they list on the container btw). I'm going to test in 30 mins and check how this affects my tank as I've not directly dosed K into this tank before. It should be about 15-18 ppm.

I used to use the Elos Potassium kit, but it has since run out, and Elos is difficult to find around here nowadays - I don't even see Elos kits listed on any Canadian retail websites. I've used Fauna Marin in the past as well. I don't like either of these kits. I would much prefer to get my Salifert kit calibrated. I've done repeat tests of the same water sample, and I've been able to reproduce the same value, so that's a good sign. I'm just questioning the accuracy. I've been trying to get a hold of the Fauna Marin reference solution for awhile now too, and haven't had any luck yet.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

I used to use the Elos Potassium kit, but it has since run out, and Elos is difficult to find around here nowadays - I don't even see Elos kits listed on any Canadian retail websites. I've used Fauna Marin in the past as well. I don't like either of these kits. I would much prefer to get my Salifert kit calibrated. I've done repeat tests of the same water sample, and I've been able to reproduce the same value, so that's a good sign. I'm just questioning the accuracy. I've been trying to get a hold of the Fauna Marin reference solution for awhile now too, and haven't had any luck yet.

I know a German online retailer who can supply goods worldwide, but sadly they do not seem to have the Elos kit in stock at the moment. I need one too. I will contact them and once I know what is happening I will pm you their link (if you want).

 

[Myka]

I know a German online retailer who can supply goods worldwide, but sadly they do not seem to have the Elos kit in stock at the moment. I need one too. I will contact them and once I know what is happening I will pm you their link (if you want).

Ok thank you! Maybe they have the Fauna Marin reference solution too? I did find one supplier here in Canada, but they don't have anything else I want at the moment.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Three German retailers I use have stopped supplying the Elos potassium test kit, but they still stock the FM reference solution. I will approach the UK shops to find out if they can ship the test kit and FM solution to Canada.

This is one of my weekend jobs.

 

[2una]

seaflower(nl) shows both - couple of times iv'e used them they seem to go get stock on thursdays & ship after then - they do international shipping

 

[Myka]

Three German retailers I use have stopped supplying the Elos potassium test kit, but they still stock the FM reference solution. I will approach the UK shops to find out if they can ship the test kit and FM solution to Canada.

This is one of my weekend jobs.

Thank you very much! I'd buy two of the reference solutions - make sure I never run out. :lmao:

seaflower(nl) shows both - couple of times iv'e used them they seem to go get stock on thursdays & ship after then - they do international shipping

I will check this out if Bulent is unsuccessful, thank you!

 

[DiscusHeckel]

I will check this out if Bulent is unsuccessful, thank you!

Hi Mindy,

I have checked the UK retailers. They do not post overseas and they are also more expensive compared to shops in the mainland Europe. This is why I get most dry goods, including T5 tubes, from Germany. I would order from the Dutch shop.

FM reference solution does not have an expiry date. So buying two bottles would be OK, but I would not open them at the same time. The other thing is that test results are shown as mg/L and dKH on FM bottles, whereas calcium and magnesium are calculated as ppm in Salifert. So, I convert mg/L to ppm before comparing test results. This does not make much difference in calcium, but makes a big difference in magnesium. I hope I did not confuse you.

Cheers

Bülent

 

[Myka]

Bülent, could you please explain why mg/L to ppm conversion makes a big difference with Mg? My understanding is that the conversion is so close that it doesn't make much difference. I just used a mg/L to ppm calculator and it calculated 1440 mg/L to 1441.6 ppm.

Thanks for checking into the shipping. I wasn't planning to open he second bottle of reference solution until the first was empty.