Myka's 69 SPS Tank 2015

[Myka]

I'm interested on how dosing no3 will go for you this time.

Me too. Whenever that PO4 shows up...

I think this is what happened to me. The Turbo Snails were a huge addition to the clean up crew. then I ran up the nitrate to 20 or so. I dropped from .18 phosphate to .01 in one week. The only seriously affected was my Ponape Bird'sNest. Several branches bleach from the center stalk out halfway to the tips. Anyway. I have not found anything that really likes to eat the Burgundy Turf. Unless they are midnight snackers on the stuff. I think that lowering the phosphates are what is making it recede. The crazy thing is that until I added the turbos and raised nitrate, I only showed .03 to .08 on tests. After one week of receding algae the phosphate climbed to .18. After the second week it crashed to .01.

Good Luck .
I really enjoy viewing your tank. Keeping posting updates on your opinion on the Pohls Xtra, please.

Thanks
Kevin

Wow Kevin, that's some huge swing! Eek! You know, tanks are weird. Critters are weird. Just today I was surprised at a client's tank - I had been trying to kill off some small brown Anthelia that was taking over a large rock. This client doesn't mind it and doesn't have any plans for much coral, but it drives me nuts so I was trying kill it. I finally gave up some weeks ago. Today I go and there is a Turbo Snail on that rock, and the Anthelia is almost entirely gone! So was it the Turbo? They've been in there for a couple years! Did he just decide to change his palette? Maybe he's starving. I'll have to keep an eye on them...

Anyway, yeah I'll pick up a couple more Turbos and see what kind of trouble they can get up to in my tank. Maybe they just need to be hungrier.

I've been dosing the Pohl's Xtra since Nov 4th, so that's over 3 months now. So far so good.

 

[Ucantwin]

Do you know what the difference is between pohls extra and the extra special?

 

[Myka]

I just noticed that my close up photos are all on page 34, not this last one. That's annoying when posts get split like that...I think people miss most of the pics then. :lol:

Do you know what the difference is between pohls extra and the extra special?

No, I don't. The Special is supposed to be specifically formulated for ULNS with pale corals. I had an old bottle of regular Xtra, so I just started using that. My LFS only has the regular in stock, so that's what I'm sticking with. It's working, so I won't change it! Haha

 

[kevlow]

Anyway, yeah I'll pick up a couple more Turbos and see what kind of trouble they can get up to in my tank. Maybe they just need to be hungrier.

This was my idea. Since nothing seemed to want to eat the Burgundy then I thought that they must not be hungry enough. I decided to start competition for the food and have a feeding frenzy.I do not care for the Turbos since they move frags and flip themselves over and die. So I bought small to medium size ones. I have not ever seen them actually eating the Burgundy but they are always on the move and busy. I have not had any real problems with them moving and breaking stuff. My Trocus seem to do more of that.
I guess my system just needed bigger,faster, hungrier snails. I still am not sure whether they are eating the turf at night or just eating the food that was feeding the algae.

 

[Myka]

Well, I finally got up the gumption to hang that 400w Radium over my tank. It looks really nice (I tried to take a photo, and the photo is horrible), and it reminds me that I MISS HALIDES!!!! However, I break out the Apogee PAR meter, and I am disappointed.

Here's the scoop. The Radium bulb is unknown age, best guess about a year old. So it needs replacement. Ballast is an IceCap, so the Radium is being driven about 360w like it should. PAR at water surface at the highest PAR point I could find is about 600 if I lower the fixture so the bulb is maybe 8" off the water surface but then I'm getting like 50 PAR on my highest Acros that are at each end of the tank. The bottom of the tank the highest PAR I could find was 87.

My 6-bulb ATI T5 fixture with 2 bulbs 3 months old, 2 bulbs 5 months old, and 2 bulbs 7 months old I get 600 PAR at the water surface and 150 PAR on the sand at the highest point. Obviously the spread is much better too.

So, the Radium is costing me 100 watts more (with no supplementals). Am I really gaining anything? The Radium bulb should be replaced every 10 months or so. How much PAR would I be gaining, and for how long? At what point does the 400w Radium put out the same PAR as a 6-bulb T5 (which is only 234w by the way!), but cost me 1/3 more to run?! There's no way I'm making the heat and cost sacrifice to NOT gain PAR. If it's just esthetics of the halide, then maybe I could get the same PAR as the T5 by using 2x150w halides?

Hmm....just talking out loud here. I encourage some input.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Well, I finally got up the gumption to hang that 400w Radium over my tank. It looks really nice (I tried to take a photo, and the photo is horrible), and it reminds me that I MISS HALIDES!!!! However, I break out the Apogee PAR meter, and I am disappointed.

Here's the scoop. The Radium bulb is unknown age, best guess about a year old. So it needs replacement. Ballast is an IceCap, so the Radium is being driven about 360w like it should. PAR at water surface at the highest PAR point I could find is about 600 if I lower the fixture so the bulb is maybe 8" off the water surface but then I'm getting like 50 PAR on my highest Acros that are at each end of the tank. The bottom of the tank the highest PAR I could find was 87.

My 6-bulb ATI T5 fixture with 2 bulbs 3 months old, 2 bulbs 5 months old, and 2 bulbs 7 months old I get 600 PAR at the water surface and 150 PAR on the sand at the highest point. Obviously the spread is much better too.

So, the Radium is costing me 100 watts more (with no supplementals). Am I really gaining anything? The Radium bulb should be replaced every 10 months or so. How much PAR would I be gaining, and for how long? At what point does the 400w Radium put out the same PAR as a 6-bulb T5 (which is only 234w by the way!), but cost me 1/3 more to run?! There's no way I'm making the heat and cost sacrifice to NOT gain PAR. If it's just esthetics of the halide, then maybe I could get the same PAR as the T5 by using 2x150w halides?

Hmm....just talking out loud here. I encourage some input.

Hi Mindy,

I am not knowledgable enough to give accurate answers to your questions, but I would like to state that the radium bulb needs M80 type-ballast. In this case, because it will be overdriven compared to an electronic ballast, it is likely to be replaced much more frequently than 10 months. I have seen your question in Andrew's thread. My answer would be that because your bulb's age is unknown, it is safe to assume that it is a lot older than six months (or even older than 10 months). When a T5 tube/MH bulb that peaks at the blue end of spectrum gets old its colour spectrum shifts towards green/orange and possibly red. This explains the increase in PAR. As you know PAR and PUR are not the same thing. Just because you are getting high PAR reading does not mean that your bulb is fit for purpose. After ten months I observe increase in PAR readings. This is clearly due to spectrum shift. it cannot be anything else unless my Apogee sensor is wrong. When this happens I know that it is time to replace my tubes.

Cheers

Bülent

 

[Myka]

Hi Mindy,

I am not knowledgable enough to give accurate answers to your questions, but I would like to state that the radium bulb needs M80 type-ballast. In this case, because it will be overdriven compared to an electronic ballast, it is likely to be replaced much more frequently than 10 months. I have seen your question in Andrew's thread. My answer would be that because your bulb's age is unknown, it is safe to assume that it is a lot older than six months (or even older than 10 months). When a T5 tube/MH bulb that peaks at the blue end of spectrum gets old its colour spectrum shifts towards green/orange and possibly red. This explains the increase in PAR. As you know PAR and PUR are not the same thing. Just because you are getting high PAR reading does not mean that your bulb is fit for purpose. After ten months I observe increase in PAR readings. This is clearly due to spectrum shift. it cannot be anything else unless my Apogee sensor is wrong. When this happens I know that it is time to replace my tubes.

Cheers

Bülent

Thanks for your input Bülent.

My understanding of the IceCap ballast is that it runs the Radium correctly. The concern is when people overdrive them at 400w or even 440w as some HQI ballasts do. At that time the bulb is only good for 5 or 6 months. Correctly driven, yeah about 10 months life is about what you can expect according to most people which is still quite low for a halide bulb.

I'm mostly concerned with: How much more PAR will I get with a new Radium bulb? How often would I have to replace it to keep the PAR higher than my T5 fixture? Is there a better option? The current fixture (24" Sfiligoi) really isn't spreading the light enough, but if it's spreads it more then the PAR will drop further even!

 

[Ucantwin]

Mindy, I'm actually surprised about your par rating of your 6 bulb ATI. How high off the water is that fixture? With my 6 bulb I was getting close to 300 par on the sand bed with it being 7" off the water on a 75 gallon, which I believe is 21" deep.

I don't know a lot about halides but I would imagine a 400w would put out way more par than what your getting, seems like something is off.

 

[wheelman76]

Radium bulbs are known to be one of the lower par halide bulbs. My 8 bulb sunpower puts out higher par than my 400w Radium.

 

[biggles]

The reef looks to be coming along really well Mindy, love all the color contrasts you've obviously put some thought into. Placement and orientation can make or break the appearance of certain species so every little thing we do to make our coral displays shine their best adds to the overall wow factor we all strive to create

Each of my 400W Radiums is 9" off the water in cheap reflectors, one was $10-.
Each one covers 30" x 32" of the display with T5's all along the outer edges as you know. I actually spoke to the guy who makes the HPS ballasts i use many years ago and he offered to test what the bulb voltage was running at on his ballast because i wanted to be sure the 400W bulb WASN'T run to spec. From memory it was just under 400W when at full running temp. He also told me to make sure i never had cooling airflow directed at the bulbs because they were actually architectural colored lighting bulbs meant for outside illumination of bridges and spires etc. They are made to run in enclosed glass fronted fixtures and the color temp of the bulb will be affected by too much cooling when running.

No idea if any of that is correct but that's what he said. I change bulbs every 12 months normally without seeing any major difference caused by a bulb swap. I'm at 14 months now because funds have been tight lately and two 400W bulbs in Aus is $350-

 

[Myka]

Mindy, I'm actually surprised about your par rating of your 6 bulb ATI. How high off the water is that fixture? With my 6 bulb I was getting close to 300 par on the sand bed with it being 7" off the water on a 75 gallon, which I believe is 21" deep.

I don't know a lot about halides but I would imagine a 400w would put out way more par than what your getting, seems like something is off.

You know, now that I look back through my PAR maps (which unfortunately I didn't date) I see one map where I have listed CH1 100%, CH2 100% and I have 820 PAR at the water surface and 290 on the sand. My tank is also 21" deep and the fixture is about 4" off the water surface. IIRC, the bulbs were fairly new when I took these readings, and I believe I was running a KZ Coral Light (old gen 10,000K) at that time which I think is a higher PAR bulb than any of the ATI. Either way though, I'm getting about 25% less PAR out of the fixture right now, and I don't think the overall age of the bulbs is any older. Oh, I do have an actinic in there these days. Maybe I'll do some bulb rearranging...

Radium bulbs are known to be one of the lower par halide bulbs. My 8 bulb sunpower puts out higher par than my 400w Radium.

Yeah, but jeez, I figured I'd get more PAR than that! 360w of halide compared to 260w of T5?? Doesn't make sense to me. Either way, the Radium isn't sticking around! I'm kind of tossing around the idea of buying an 8-bulb ATI and pulling out the middle two bulbs, put one or two 150w halides in there just for aesthetics. If anything, this experiment has me missing halides SOOOOO bad!

The reef looks to be coming along really well Mindy, love all the color contrasts you've obviously put some thought into. Placement and orientation can make or break the appearance of certain species so every little thing we do to make our coral displays shine their best adds to the overall wow factor we all strive to create

Each of my 400W Radiums is 9" off the water in cheap reflectors, one was $10-.
Each one covers 30" x 32" of the display with T5's all along the outer edges as you know. I actually spoke to the guy who makes the HPS ballasts i use many years ago and he offered to test what the bulb voltage was running at on his ballast because i wanted to be sure the 400W bulb WASN'T run to spec. From memory it was just under 400W when at full running temp. He also told me to make sure i never had cooling airflow directed at the bulbs because they were actually architectural colored lighting bulbs meant for outside illumination of bridges and spires etc. They are made to run in enclosed glass fronted fixtures and the color temp of the bulb will be affected by too much cooling when running.

No idea if any of that is correct but that's what he said. I change bulbs every 12 months normally without seeing any major difference caused by a bulb swap. I'm at 14 months now because funds have been tight lately and two 400W bulbs in Aus is $350-

Thank you Andrew! Yes, I am taking lots of consideration into placement this time around. All of the tabling corals are on the left rock formation, all the bush type corals are on the right formation, and all the fine-branched "deepwater" corals are lining the bottom of both formation, so in a couple years when it's well grown in it should be impressive (I hope!). I have most of the Acros mounted on little bits of rock rubble, and then attach the rock rubble to the live rock, so more of the colonies are movable. This has been quite handy in the planning/arrangement stage that I think the tank is still in.

You know Andrew, I think sometimes we put too much thought into PAR, me included. Your tank is probably not huge PAR, and there are mini pseudo-studies lately that point to PAR not being as important as the quality/spectrum of the light anyway. Either way, the single 400w Radium in the Sfiligoi fixture doesn't have the spread I need for my 36" long tank. It just won't work.

Holy shibby, $350?!!! Want me to post some to you?? Maybe they come in one piece though...

 

[Rixar]

I am impressed with your tank.


How long have you kept your lights on?
Do not you think 8 light bulbs would be too much?


My tank has 8 powermodule ai and I fry one of my corals if I turn them all on.

 

[Myka]

I am impressed with your tank.


How long have you kept your lights on?
Do not you think 8 light bulbs would be too much?


My tank has 8 powermodule ai and I fry one of my corals if I turn them all on.

Thank you Rixar. Right now I run CH1 (2 bulbs) for 13.5 hours (including 1/2 hour ramp up and down) at 100%, and CH2 for 7 hours (including half hour ramp up and down).

Possibly it would be too much. It all depends on how much nutrients the corals are provided. When my corals were pale from not enough nutrients CH2 was only 4 hours at 70%.

 

[Myka]

Ok, the ATI is back over the tank. I swapped out the actinic for another (old) Blue Plus, here what I have now:

KZ SuperBlue (5 months)
Blue+ (1 week)
ABS (1 week)
Coral+ 4 months)
Blue+ (8 months)
Blue+ (9 months)

The bulbs are exactly 4" off the water surface. I tested with and without the acrylic lens, and surprisingly found the difference is negligible. With all bulbs at 100% I read PAR at 1030 at the water surface. The highest PAR hitting the Acros is 485-540 (including the 8% correction http://www.apogeeinstruments.co.uk/underwater-par-measurements). Sand is just under 300.

Pooh on that Radion!

I reduced CH2 by 1 hour to help the corals acclimate to the 20% increase in PAR.

 

[Ucantwin]

Seems like the t5 is the better choice here. I also love the look halides use to put on my tank some years ago, the shimmer is something I miss.

I seen a post ATI made about taking the acrylic shield off saying to never do it. That the little bit of initial par you get with the shield off will quick fade if you get anything on the reflectors at all.

 

[Scythanith]

You should tell them what my PAR was at surface

 

[Myka]

Seems like the t5 is the better choice here. I also love the look halides use to put on my tank some years ago, the shimmer is something I miss.

I seen a post ATI made about taking the acrylic shield off saying to never do it. That the little bit of initial par you get with the shield off will quick fade if you get anything on the reflectors at all.

Yeah, I have the acrylic lens on. I was just curious how much it blocked, but it didn't seem to block the light at all.

You should tell them what my PAR was at surface

I think it was 1600 right under a Mitras puck? :celeb1: What do you get on the sand with your setup?

 

[Scythanith]

Yeah, I have the acrylic lens on. I was just curious how much it blocked, but it didn't seem to block the light at all.

I think it was 1600 right under a Mitras puck? :celeb1: What do you get on the sand with your setup?

Nah, we hit well over 2000 remember lol!

On the sand is 130-150ish.

 

[Myka]

Nah, we hit well over 2000 remember lol!

On the sand is 130-150ish.

Oh, yes RIGHT under the puck I think it hit 2100-something. I thought you meant on the water surface to compare to my 1030! I'm surprised the meter didn't go blind! :lol:

 

[ksc]

I tested a brand new 400 Radium combo. Using a Galaxy ballast and a Lumenmax Elite reflector I got 2000 at 12" in the hot spot.

I never set up that combo but last winter I found that 400w bulb and put it in my old Lumenmax 2 with galaxy ballast (these have been running for 8 years) on the 400 watt setting. It was getting 1600 in the hot spot. The 250 radiums I run over my 90 get about 1100 on the surface (reflectors are about 10-12" above the water line).