Mysterious fish deaths are more common now (Flukes)

[cthetoy]

I dose it into the water in a high flow area per instructions. I would think putting it into the food would expose the fish to far too concentrated amounts of the med and would likely kill them.


What do you mean you couldn't use your skimmer for months?? Becuase of the excess foaming?? If that were the case then it may be pertinent to use more carbon to remove/neutralize the medication.

Don't mix Prazipro with food. One reefer learned the hard way and lost a few fish that way.

Prazipro will make your skimmer overflow. My skimmer outake was wide open and it still overflowed so I had to restrict the air going into the skimmer. The reason why I kept my skimmer running was for extra aeration.

Using carbon combined with a water change will remove most of the Prazipro and your skimmer should work normally after a week.

 

[jlinzmaier]

Well, prazipro certainly doesn't live up to the label. It may very well be helpful in managing flukes but it sure didn't eradicate my flatworms. Even after dosing three doses (all above recommended dose amount and the second being 2X recommended dose and the third dose being 3X the recommended amount). Dipped some corals today and they were still present. Their numbers have certainly diminished but they are certainly present.

Regardless, I think I proved that prazipro is reef safe including tanks with duster clusters (mine are still doing fine). Not sure how detrimental it would be to other feather dusters since I didn't have any present. I would certainly use it to treat the tank if I suspected that a fish had flukes, but it's been unsuccessful with the flatworm eradication.

My initial dose of FWE didn't do the trick either but I'm going to give the tank yet another couple doses of FWE to see if it can wipe them out.

I believe that a part of my problem is that I haven't gotten an exact ID on my flatworms. Maybe if I could get a more specific species diagnosis I might be able to treat with medications more specific to the species.

Jeremy

 

[hottuna]

anyone think lowering salinity to 1.015 long term and small doses 0f prazi would get rid of flukes?
2 consecutive treatments at full strength have only slowed them down...

 

[cthetoy]

anyone think lowering salinity to 1.015 long term and small doses 0f prazi would get rid of flukes?
2 consecutive treatments at full strength have only slowed them down...

Hyposalinity down to 1.009 will not get rid of flukes. A 5 minutes freshwater dip will get rid of most flukes and confirm if the fish has flukes.

People have used Prazipro lowered salinity water however pH is usually lower in those conditions and adding Prazipro can make the pH dip to a dangerous point making it worse and creating additional stress on the fish.

Also the toxcity of ammonia is magnified in lowered pH

 

[Psionicdragon]

So there aren't any natural predators for flukes?

I am a bit worried about dosing it in my main tank because of acans, clams, and especially Blue Cesp (Blue Xenia).

Anyone with xenia and/or cesp had any ill effect?

 

[jjk_reef00]

I have a bunch of xenia in my tank, dosed very heavy for a month and they all were fine.

 

[billsreef]

So there aren't any natural predators for flukes?

This is one of the few parasites we commonly see in the hobby that cleaner shrimp will actually eat.

 

[JHemdal]

cthetoy:

You wrote; "Also the toxcity of ammonia is magnified in lowered pH " - this is actually backwards. Free ammonia (as NH3) is what is toxic to the fish, and the LOWER the pH, the less of it there is in that form (and the more of it as the less toxic NH4+). At high pH levels, there is more free ammonia, and the fish are more adversely affected....

Additionally, praziquantel itself has no effect on pH - if Prazipro does drop the pH, it is due to some additional additive, perhaps the solvent they use.


Jay

 

[cthetoy]

cthetoy:

You wrote; "Also the toxcity of ammonia is magnified in lowered pH " - this is actually backwards. Free ammonia (as NH3) is what is toxic to the fish, and the LOWER the pH, the less of it there is in that form (and the more of it as the less toxic NH4+). At high pH levels, there is more free ammonia, and the fish are more adversely affected....

Additionally, praziquantel itself has no effect on pH - if Prazipro does drop the pH, it is due to some additional additive, perhaps the solvent they use.

Thanks for the correction. That's the reason why I hear that you should slowly acclimate any newly acquired bagged fish because the pH is lower in the water and when you bring the pH up too fast the free ammonia becomes more toxic

 

[cthetoy]

Someone asked me if "Herbtana" from Microbe-lift get rid of flukes. On the bottle it says it works against:
* white spots
* costia
* flukes (gill & skin)
* trichodina
* oodinium
* chilodenella
* ichthyophthirius.

Well it failed. I freshwater dipped both a Flagfin Angel and a Imperator after 10 days and each had about 25-50 adult flukes fall off. It did seem to help with the ich problem though. I was reading their scientific lab results of this product and it mentioned their finding against ich and velvet but no data or results against flukes.

 

[blennielove]

Someone asked me if "Herbtana" from Microbe-lift get rid of flukes. On the bottle it says it works against:
* white spots
* costia
* flukes (gill & skin)
* trichodina
* oodinium
* chilodenella
* ichthyophthirius.

Well it failed. I freshwater dipped both a Flagfin Angel and a Imperator after 10 days and each had about 25-50 adult flukes fall off. It did seem to help with the ich problem though. I was reading their scientific lab results of this product and it mentioned their finding against ich and velvet but no data or results against flukes.

I had ich. I used Herbtana for 10 days. It does NOT HELP ich problems. :sad2:

 

[cthetoy]

I had ich. I used Herbtana for 10 days. It does NOT HELP ich problems. :sad2:

I know this is a fluke thread but here is my take on Herbtana against ich. The medication claims "Microbe-Lift Herbtana supports the fish's immune system, driving off the excess parasites. Since they cannot return to the fish during treatment, the majority of the parasites will starve without a host. Therefore, although Microbe-Lift Herbtana does not directly kill parasites"

It also states the ammonia and nitrite should be below 0.4. My 10 fish ranging from Angels, Powder Blue, Blue Tangs, Yellow Tangs and a Moorish Idol had a ich. I cured all of them 5 weeks in a quarantine tank with Cupramine. I placed them in my main tank and they got ich a few days later meaning my main tank still had ich with no fish for 5 weeks. I'm not going to stress my fish out any more for an 8 week quarantine period so I tried Herbtana. All fish was healthy and not breathing fast so I'm assuming Herbtana boosted the fish immune system to allow the fish to fight off the ich on its own. If the fish were weak or heavily infested then Herbtana might not work. Since my skimmer was off for 10 days as instructed I knew my ammonia and nitrite would rise so I performed large water changes every 3 days. The water changes were more expensive than the medication itself. A lab analysis of Herbtana: http://www.microbelift.com/catalogs/HerbtanaBrochure.R3.pdf

Herbtana does nothing for flukes

 

[hottuna]

....But it claims that it's effective against flukes...

 

[billsreef]

A lab analysis of Herbtana: http://www.microbelift.com/catalogs/HerbtanaBrochure.R3.pdf

Keep in mind that is the companies research, and is totally lacking in any controls that would give it any sort of scientific validity.

 

[jlinzmaier]

....But it claims that it's effective against flukes...

Unfortunately, rediculous claims and good marketing suckers many of us reefers into buying unecessary products or products that don't live up to the statements on the label. This is the worst aspect of reefing IMO. Before I dose anything or try a new supplement I always post in the chemistry forum what the label is claiming and what the products contents can "actually" do. The chemistry guys are spectacular at separating good marketing from the facts and give you the true potential of a product. Randy, Boomer, Cliff, Tatu, and the many others have saved me hundreds of dollars since I talk with them about a product before I buy it. Companies will show you the data that they want you to see but the guys on the chem forum will give you the real scoop and the resources and factual data to prove their claims (That's something you will likely never see from a company posting info on their products. Again, they just show you what will most likely steer you towards buying the product).

Jeremy

 

[Psionicdragon]

Anyone notice rapid breathing with dosing prazipro?

 

[flameangel88]

Anyone notice rapid breathing with dosing prazipro?

Check the PH and add PH for more water movement. I know some folks doesn't have lower PH issue after dosing Prazi but I do with my systems especially on some sensitive angels.

 

[billsreef]

Anyone notice rapid breathing with dosing prazipro?

Sometimes a heavy infestation in the gills will cause rapid breathing. Also there is a fair likelihood of other infections as well, Amyloodinium being a prime suspect with rapid breathing and no other readily observable signs.

 

[9toes]

Are you guys doing a fresh water dip whenever you receive new fish? I would think that to be risky with the fish being stressed from the bag and shipment already.

 

[cthetoy]

Anyone notice rapid breathing with dosing prazipro?

I have the same symptoms with Flameangel88. Rapid breathing and loss of appetite. Fish were a Moorish Idol, Imperator Angel, Blue, Yellow and Powder Blue Tangs. Since my skimmer was offline I added extra powerheads for aeration. Fish should resume eating after by the 3rd day. If not perform a large water change, and use carbon and fish should resume its normal activity unless you have some other disease, declining water quality, etc.