N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing) - Split

[flyin2jz]

I sure can tell when the reactor is off. I had a pump fail this week and the tank was quickly covered in brown film. Got it back online yesterday and it's gone this morning. Pretty amazing stuff for sure. Added a few more pellets for fun also. If ur on the fence give it a shot u will be glad u did.

 

[Aquarist007]

I sure can tell when the reactor is off. I had a pump fail this week and the tank was quickly covered in brown film. Got it back online yesterday and it's gone this morning. Pretty amazing stuff for sure. Added a few more pellets for fun also. If ur on the fence give it a shot u will be glad u did.

I agree with you completly--I see the same thing if the reactor gets plugged:thumbsup:

 

[Aquarist007]

IMO this is a useful thread to follow with this one.

Most people get caught up in the use of carbon dosing for reducing nitrates and phosphates.
Another great use is for allowing us to create a more nutrient rich environment for our corals.
But, you have to increase your feeding along with the np pellets and have a very good skimmer.
It's not bacteria that increase coral growth, although it seems to get the credit for it--its the increase in nutrients that you are allowed to create due to the work of the bacteria on the biofilm of the pellets

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843241

 

[larryfl1]

i need some advice...

i have been running just under 2 liters of pellets on a reef octopus reactor... nitrates have stayed low around 3-4 and phosphates are go from .08 to .3 depending if i use gfo...

this has been for about 10-12 weeks....

i just moved everything to my newly received reef dynamics react... (very nice..)

so the question is why do i not see phosphates or nitrates dropping further..they just stay around the same levels...

tank size is about 325 gallons....

do i need more pellets???

thoughts / advice???

 

[sirreal63]

those parameters are well within the testing range of error. I would leave it and watch the tank to see if it is high or low.

 

[sirreal63]

ThankCapn fro bring your observations and keeping this thread relevent. I apologize ahead of time for my rambling thoughts, I had back surgery last week and am still heavily medicated, so my thought process's are hindered.

Any bacteria that does become water borne is easily removed by skimming. This keeps the system healthy and stops the accumulation of unwanted forms of bacteria ie cyano.

Capn...have you discovered something different than the AA articled discussed, where the rate of removal was only 28-39% at max and best case scenario? Sources?
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
It also points to much lower bacteria counts in a carbon dosed reef tank, and that skimming is not effective in removal of excess bacteria.


The reason we want lots of flow through the reactors is to bring more nitrates and phosphates to the bacteria and not the other way around.
We really want to bring them what they can consume with the turn rate in the reactor, but based on the science that I have found, it is the oxygen that seems to be the limiting factor, have you found something else?
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=jfas.2012.150.161&org=10
This article seems to be suggesting that the increase in oxygen levels corresponds to an increase of bacteria in the system.


My experience agrees somewhat, but do we want the flow so high that bacteria leave the reactor in large quantities from being sloughed off or do we want to contain them as much as possible? Only asking here, because I have run high flow and low flow and have recently been just running them in the bottom of a canister filter and have found no difference in keeping my parameters in check. High flow did however cause the pellets to lose size much faster.

If you dose the system with carbon then you are increasing the bacteria level in the system and this can cause some problems that switching to the pellet reactors solved
Explain, having done liquid and solid carbon dosing since about 2005/6, I see very little difference in the end result, but find the pellets easier.

 

[drtrash]

Been running biopellets for a year but have had Cyano (brown) for last few months and can't seem to get rid of it. Should I take pellets offline or what. N & P are 0

 

[kzooreefer]

Some people also speculate that instead of skimming bacteria, carbon dosing mostly skims byproducts of the bacteria's metabolism. I have no idea what the primary export actually is, personally.

To my understanding the only metabolic by-product is nitrogen gas. The bacteria that can utilize carbon and nitrates are facultative anaerobes and live in the water column. In the presence of oxygen they will use it as the electron donor and not the nitrogen. But if you drive up the carbon raising the C/N ratio makes the bactria utilize the nitrogen and not the oxygen. This is how the wastewater treatment industry uses Klebsiell sp. of bacteria to denitrify wastewater using ethanol as the carbon source. As for the phosphate the majority is used up when the bacteria mutliply for cellular construction. So to export phosphate you need to remove the bacteria from the system thats where the skimmer comes in.

 

[bertoni]

I suspect that the bacteria we are feeding have more outputs than nitrogen gas. For various reasons, people have claimed that the main export is not bacteria, but bacterial byproducts, but I don't know of any large amount of hard data, if any at all.

 

[Aquarist007]

Been running biopellets for a year but have had Cyano (brown) for last few months and can't seem to get rid of it. Should I take pellets offline or what. N & P are 0

I had a similar problem with that for about 4 months in one the tanks I look after. I finally gave up on the standard methods and used Red Slime remover and turned the lights off for three days. Gone--that easy--and no harm to the system

 

[Aquarist007]

To my understanding the only metabolic by-product is nitrogen gas. The bacteria that can utilize carbon and nitrates are facultative anaerobes and live in the water column. In the presence of oxygen they will use it as the electron donor and not the nitrogen. But if you drive up the carbon raising the C/N ratio makes the bactria utilize the nitrogen and not the oxygen. This is how the wastewater treatment industry uses Klebsiell sp. of bacteria to denitrify wastewater using ethanol as the carbon source. As for the phosphate the majority is used up when the bacteria mutliply for cellular construction. So to export phosphate you need to remove the bacteria from the system thats where the skimmer comes in.

I understand and agree with most of what you are stating.
I was under the understanding, however, that anerobic bacteria ---esp the denitrifiers had to live in a less then aerobic conditon such as the inner regions of reef rock?

 

[Aquarist007]

ThankCapn fro bring your observations and keeping this thread relevent. I apologize ahead of time for my rambling thoughts, I had back surgery last week and am still heavily medicated, so my thought process's are hindered.

Hope you are recovering. I have to apologize that I have not read that article yet.When I find time to read it I will answer your posts.

 

[Mrmole]

Dear you all, please excuse my intrusion but I being a beginner in this hobby and to this forum, I got lost on this 170+ replies thread. Can someone please recap with a simple answer for me if of course there is such an answer: Can these pellets replace vodka dosing? Thank you all.

 

[bertoni]

In some cases, yes. Tanks seem to behave differently with carbon dosing, though.

 

[Mrmole]

Thank you bertoni, do you recommend me using this method? Having in mind that I just started reefing a year ago, switched from freshwater. I am dosing vodka at 50ml/day with NO3 @ 10ppm on a 100g system (including sump) with sps and little lps. I have only a hippo tang and 3 clowns, a chromi and damsel. i feed everyday with JBL flakes very little portion just as little as I can grab on my finger tips.

 

[bertoni]

If you want to try something else, pellets might be okay. What's the goal? Less maintenance?

 

[Mrmole]

Yes sir, less maintenance. Since I never used pellets before I bought little fishies plastic pellets today see how it goes before switching again to the vodka solids when they are available.

 

[Aquarist007]

Yes sir, less maintenance. Since I never used pellets before I bought little fishies plastic pellets today see how it goes before switching again to the vodka solids when they are available.

have you tested for nitrates and phosphates as yet. If they are zero and you have little to no visible algae then it is possible that you don't need to carbon dose at all.
The only advantage of carbon dosing with undetectable nitrates and phosphates might be to allow you to overfeed your tank making a more nutrient rich environment for corals

 

[sirreal63]

Capn...he is already dosing carbon via vodka at 50ml/day with NO3 @ 10ppm on a 100g system.

Mrmole, when you make the switch, start with about 1/4 of the recommended dose and test daily, add pellets until nutrients reach a stasis. It may take several days in between each pellet addition to get the nutrients where you want them. Out of curiosity what did the PO4 test at? The pellets can and do replace the liquid carbon, to answer your question.

 

[Mrmole]

OOPS... sorry i meant dosing vodka 5ml/day... 50ml/day would be a little off...