N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)
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jlinzmaier
Premium Member
My apologies, I should have been more clear. There are some bacteria that are photosynthetic like cyanobacteria. They are not the cause of the bacterial blooms (white cloud) that people most often see with the initiation of the biopellets. That white cloud consists of nitrifying bacteria which are non-photosynthetic and can cause oxygen depletion during a large bloom. The oxygen depletion can be significant enough to cause harm to the livestock in our tank that require proper oxygen levels.
Jeremy
daveonbass
New member
well I got my flow dialed down to 112.5gph through the reactor. It's been there for a couple of days, but still no reduction of anything. I'll keep giving it some more time.
What exactly does NP Biopellets do?
I assume this is the result?
My nitrates have always lingered around 0-5 even before I used Biopellets. Now my results are around 0-5, with more feedings and more livestock.. but the only real change I have seen is the skimmate. It has turned really black from what was once tea-color. The picture is 2 1/2 weeks worth of skimmate.
Is this good or bad?
I assume this is the result?
My nitrates have always lingered around 0-5 even before I used Biopellets. Now my results are around 0-5, with more feedings and more livestock.. but the only real change I have seen is the skimmate. It has turned really black from what was once tea-color. The picture is 2 1/2 weeks worth of skimmate.
Is this good or bad?
extreme5450
Member
sounds good to me
daveonbass
New member
sounds bad to me. You should be getting more skimmate than that in 18 days...looks low to me. I don't think my BP are even working and I still get that much skimmate in 3 days. Just sounds low to me.
jlinzmaier
Premium Member
I don't see how that's bad in any way. If you've significantly increased feedings and your nitrate and phosphate has remained low then that's very good. People get way to fixated on what the skimmate looks like and how much is generated. IMO simply looking at what skimmate looks like and how much is produced is a very poor judgement of filtration. When using bacterial proliferation methods, a person isn't going to be exporting handfuls of bacteria. If a person would even export as much as an additional 15 ml of concentrated bacterial skimmate after inducing bacterial growth with any method then that is a huge amount of bacterial export yet in the skimmer cup would look like little to no change!!
The change in the color or concentration of your skimmate is much more likely to be from the extra food that your skimmer is pulling from the water column as opposed to any amount of bacterial export.
Jeremy
but the only real change I have seen is the skimmate. It has turned really black from what was once tea-color. The picture is 2 1/2 weeks worth of skimmate.
Is this good or bad?
Looks about like mine with vokda/vinegr dosing but I get that much every few days.I'd personally skim wetter to get more not necessarily weaker skimate. Extra organic carbon needs to be exported along with the bacteria that consume it along with N and P . So aggressive skimming is a plus in my opinion.
Is this good or bad?
Looks about like mine with vokda/vinegr dosing but I get that much every few days.I'd personally skim wetter to get more not necessarily weaker skimate. Extra organic carbon needs to be exported along with the bacteria that consume it along with N and P . So aggressive skimming is a plus in my opinion.
izzy123
New member
finally!! i've read thru this ENTIRE thread!! took me 3 days.... whole days!!:celeb2:
ok, here's my question to all you "NP reducing pelletiers" :spin3:
I am in the process of starting up my first SW aquarium, and I was wondering if these pellets would be a good addition from the getgo.
I already asked the same question regarding GFO, and the answer was that I should start off with that too.
looking forward to your insights
greetings
Ivan
ok, here's my question to all you "NP reducing pelletiers" :spin3:
I am in the process of starting up my first SW aquarium, and I was wondering if these pellets would be a good addition from the getgo.
I already asked the same question regarding GFO, and the answer was that I should start off with that too.
looking forward to your insights
greetings
Ivan
jlinzmaier
Premium Member
IMHO, you should stay away from carbon source dosing for bacterial proliferation to reduce nutrients until you have a bit of experience in reefing. Set up your tank. Learn about maintaining proper water parameters. Learn how to create a stable environment in your reef. Utilize common methods of nutrient management like efficient protein skimming, use of activated carbon, use of GFO, use of macroalgae growth, etc..... Learn what a proper bioload is for a reef tank. So on and so fourth.....
Using the biopellets has potential to cause significant negative implications. Those negative implications can be difficult to determine if they are coming from the biopellets or from any one of a hundred simple errors that most new reefers make (we've all been there and we've all made mistakes and learned from them as we've evolved as reefers). There are many experienced reefers who have implemented the use of biopellets and in some instances the pellets have generated some odd/negative results which are difficult to manage for even the more experienced reefers.
My stong suggestion is to stay away from the biopellets until you become a successful reefer with the most common methods of filtration and reef husbandry. In your future reefing, biopellets can be used as an addition to potentially substitute for other means of filtration or as a method of generation of an additional food source for filter feeding animals.
Here's a link to the archives which literally has dozens of spectacular articles for reefers to learn from. I've read each and every one of those articles at least twice and I absorb a little more info each time I read them.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1379607
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605
Good luck to you!!
Jeremy
Absolutely. Those who go straight for the shortcuts without learning the process, can't "backwards engineer" their way out of trouble when things go south.
But Bravo Ivan for attacking this hobby like a student, and understanding that this journey is going to take a great deal of of work - at least initially. There is a tremendous amount to learn, so read, read, read. This place has to be the single greatest resource for up and coming reefers. Don't be afraid to ask questions - the best answers will eventually distill down from the noise. I guess that can actually be defined as part of the learning process, as well. Good luck, and have fun.
DJ
izzy123
New member
first of all, thank you for your insights..... i've learnt quite early on that asking questions and LISTENING to seasoned people (no... I don't mean old :lol2
can and will save you from a lot of the sink holes in just about everything you endevour.
And yes, i've read all the articles you've mentioned:reading:, I didn't want to make the mistake of jumping in without knowing what was what. And I agree that this forum is the best thing for the newbee that I ever seen.... nobody judges and people genuenly try to help... needless to say, I LOVE RC:celeb2:
that being said, I was under the impression that nitrate and phosphate buildup starts from the very beginning. I was planning on a fuge for my system (about 40 gallon DT+ 25 gallon sump) but I was under the impression that this would be a good alternative.
Again, thank you very much
can and will save you from a lot of the sink holes in just about everything you endevour.And yes, i've read all the articles you've mentioned:reading:, I didn't want to make the mistake of jumping in without knowing what was what. And I agree that this forum is the best thing for the newbee that I ever seen.... nobody judges and people genuenly try to help... needless to say, I LOVE RC:celeb2:
that being said, I was under the impression that nitrate and phosphate buildup starts from the very beginning. I was planning on a fuge for my system (about 40 gallon DT+ 25 gallon sump) but I was under the impression that this would be a good alternative.
Again, thank you very much
first of all, thank you for your insights..... i've learnt quite early on that asking questions and LISTENING to seasoned people (no... I don't mean old :lol2
And yes, i've read all the articles you've mentioned:reading:, I didn't want to make the mistake of jumping in without knowing what was what. And I agree that this forum is the best thing for the newbee that I ever seen.... nobody judges and people genuenly try to help... needless to say, I LOVE RC:celeb2:
that being said, I was under the impression that nitrate and phosphate buildup starts from the very beginning. I was planning on a fuge for my system (about 40 gallon DT+ 25 gallon sump) but I was under the impression that this would be a good alternative.
Again, thank you very much
They are good for reducing PO4 and NO3, but live a little in your system before you start adding these types of things. To be honest this stuff (relatively speaking) is brand new, so no longterm info is available. None of us are certain if this will negatively affect our systems in some way at some point in the future. You may find that you may not even need them. Truly, less is more with this type of hobby. Things can get real expensive real quick, and the next big thing is always right around the corner. I think Jeremy and I are just concerned that folks are going to jump in without doing their homework and try to jump straight to the front of the line. This always ends up in disaster (just read through some of the horror stories in the newby forum). If you find down the road that you have problems with elevated nutrient levels, then maybe you consider this as one of your options - there are many.
DJ
bluereefs
New member
Personally I would start from the begining, there is no reason to alow nutrients build up and then start to deal with them, is same as with GFO, using him from the begining will prevent phosphate build up what will cause all kind of algae and corals trouble (even lost of corals). BP are now so common that more or less today they become standard filtration media, same as GFO, activated carbon, purigen..... Is important to use common sense and advice/info learned from this thread and other bp threads and start slowly, do regular aquarium mainteance (water changes) and keep the parameters in check. As is posiblle to create havoc in aquarium with too much GFO, to much of activated carbon... is also posibble to create trouble if you use too much of bio pellets, so simple common sense aplied to bp as well.
Is better IMO to get used to bp from the begining when you start with simple corals then latter when your aquarium are aged and probably loaded with more expensive corals, mistakes with few simple beginers corals do not hurt to much, mistakes with ful blown sps or mixed reef usualy lead to disaster. This aplied to everything in reef keeping, not only for bp. You need to learn how to keep water parameteres, how to use carbon, GFO, how to locate corals....
Problems with reef aquarium in most cases start to arise when eutropification start, when nutrient export become smaller then import what lead to acumulation of nitrate, phosphate, organic, detritus..... IMO all of them need to be removed strongly from the begining.
Just my opinion
Is better IMO to get used to bp from the begining when you start with simple corals then latter when your aquarium are aged and probably loaded with more expensive corals, mistakes with few simple beginers corals do not hurt to much, mistakes with ful blown sps or mixed reef usualy lead to disaster. This aplied to everything in reef keeping, not only for bp. You need to learn how to keep water parameteres, how to use carbon, GFO, how to locate corals....
Problems with reef aquarium in most cases start to arise when eutropification start, when nutrient export become smaller then import what lead to acumulation of nitrate, phosphate, organic, detritus..... IMO all of them need to be removed strongly from the begining.
Just my opinion
izzy123
New member
haha, I already sarted a controversy here, well, in any case I at least have to wait untill I started up and cycled my tank before I have to make a dicision......
I'll keep tagging along to see how you pro's progress with this and I guess it's up to me and my common sense if I use it or not.
But one thing's for sure, I need to study this a bit further before I even think of tackeling this..... I'm turning into a chemist.......:hmm4:
thanks
Ivan
bluereefs
New member
Not a controversy, just a different opinion, it does not mean that my opinion are corect, is my way of reef keping, what I learn so far, maybe tomorow I will learn that bp are dangerous, hopefully tntneon will first start to loose corals so we can discontinue using bp when he write about bp toxic elements, he use them for a year now so we have few months extra, lol.
try them if you like. i think its flawed logic of more senior members to suggest maintaining a new aquarium with older methods. the only thing you need to be aware of is that there is no long-term data on these pellets. in theory they are just like vodka dosing but safer. of course this is only theory.
in my opinion there is no point in not using something you believe works just because it is new. if someone told me not to use a cone-skimmer because they are less tried and tested than the traditional shaped skimmers what would i say? what if someone said not to use a skimmer at all, just to do water changes?
point is, there is nothing complicated about using the bio-pellets. now vodka dosing is different and riskier. zeovit i would also accept as being 'advanced only'.
good luck
in my opinion there is no point in not using something you believe works just because it is new. if someone told me not to use a cone-skimmer because they are less tried and tested than the traditional shaped skimmers what would i say? what if someone said not to use a skimmer at all, just to do water changes?
point is, there is nothing complicated about using the bio-pellets. now vodka dosing is different and riskier. zeovit i would also accept as being 'advanced only'.
good luck
Hmm...not sure it is flawed logic. You should know how to do math on paper long before you begin with a calculator. Understanding how your tank matures and learning the processes is always good. There are no magic pills, these just help a little. Learning solid husbandry...there is no substitute for that. I used these on a new tank, but coupled it with many many years of experience.
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