N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

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cvye said:
It's just too easy - put in 50 - 100% more pellets than you think you need. The bacteria will grow based on what they get for food. In a dynamic system such as ours, the colonies will react to the input.

Same thing as oversizing your skimmer, but here it's even better, as skimmers need dirty water to work - too big and they don't work for a while. No danger of that with this situation, there will be as many bacteria as your system needs at any moment (limited only by growth/multiplication rate). So as long as your spikes are not too radical over time, the bacteria should keep up.
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I don't think thats quite right. Its like saying you can just dump in as much vodka as you want and only so much will get used because of the limited bacteria population. But ask anybody who has overdosed vodka and they will tell you that you get a major bacteria bloom. I think the same would happen with to many pellets. Don't you think?
 
luther1200 said:
i don't think thats quite right. Its like saying you can just dump in as much vodka as you want and only so much will get used because of the limited bacteria population. But ask anybody who has overdosed vodka and they will tell you that you get a major bacteria bloom. I think the same would happen with to many pellets. Don't you think?
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+1
 
A lot depends on how soluble the pellets are in water. At some point, the tank might have enough leaching to be an issue, but that amount of pellets might be huge.
 
Tatu, Thanks for the links. I get a" bad encrpt dictionary" read on my computer for the first one. Probably my computer. The second is interesting but as you know limited to nitrification.
 
luther1200 said:
I don't think thats quite right. Its like saying you can just dump in as much vodka as you want and only so much will get used because of the limited bacteria population. But ask anybody who has overdosed vodka and they will tell you that you get a major bacteria bloom. I think the same would happen with to many pellets. Don't you think?
Click to expand...

Im confused about this since the entire point of these pellets is that they dont leech anything into the water column and any bacterial growth is limited to the surface of the pellets. Meaning i can put 2L of it in my tank and the bacteria will only consume what they can and any extra pellets will just basically sit there.

If they leech out anything then u might aswell go back to vodka and save yourself all the $$. Also the manufacture has stated that the polymer only releases the carbon as the bacteria break it down so if they do in fact leech out carbon then this is just an expensive slow release vodka pellet.
 
At what price - convenience!:lol:
For some - this may be a God-send in that, it is convenient. I mean - if you travel much - this is just one more step toward automation.
For others, it is expensive vodka.
Unles there are additional benefits we have not been made aware of......
T
 
Well they state that there is absolutely no carbon released unless the surface bateria break it down which why I ordered these last night and that u cant overdose as nothing is released into the water. Or atleast that is my understanding of what these are.

But if it is just a slow release vodka pellet then you might aswell buy a dosing pump for the money and come out paying much less in the long run.
 
It would be very helpful if someone from NP could chime in to clear up the confusion that this is causing. I was planning on adding 2 Litters to my 250g total volume tank since you cant "overdose" like you can with vodka but now im a little confused and worried about doing this.
 
From my understanding, there are multiple advantages that this system proposes.

1. On demand carbon availability: As opposed to vodka dosing, where you need to tailor the amount you dose to the level of N and P in your tank, the bacteria will simply subsist on the pellets and be limited by the surface area and the available N and P. Theoretically, the benefit is that you don't need to be as careful about the amount you put in a tank. Also, you don't need to be there everyday dosing carbon and worry about missing a dosage.

2. Carbon release localized to surface of pellets: Instead of releasing carbon in the water column, where it could be taken up by anything that might use it, the carbon stays with the bacteria that colonizes on the surface of the pellets. The advantage of this is that you potentially avoid those slimy cyano films that many people, including myself, have observed with dosing vodka or other carbon.

3. Bacterial mass and biofilm buildup localized on pellets - Yet another advantage to a localized carbon source. For those who have dosed a lot of carbon in their systems, I'm sure you're familiar with how much bacterial biofilm can build up on your rocks and walls of your tank. The benefit of a localized carbon source is that you can potentially keep the slimy stuff with the pellets and not all over the tank.

4. Optimizing removal of excess bacteria via skimmer: By having the bacterial growth on the pellets in a reactor that is placed right next to a skimmer, you can potentially make the removal of excess bacteria more efficient. As the bacteria sloughs off the pellets in the reactor, it can be immediately sucked into the skimmer and removed. This is opposed the typical scenario with regular carbon dosing, in which the bacteria grows on all surfaces and may not be efficiently removed, especially from areas of low flow.
 
aninjaatemyshoe said:
2. Carbon release localized to surface of pellets: Instead of releasing carbon in the water column, where it could be taken up by anything that might use it, the carbon stays with the bacteria that colonizes on the surface of the pellets. The advantage of this is that you potentially avoid those slimy cyano films that many people, including myself, have observed with dosing vodka or other carbon.

.
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If this is true then what is the point? I thought the whole point of carbon dosing was to feed bacteria which take up N/P as they grow then get skimmed out. If they never leave the pellet surface how do they get skimmed out? Or do I have it confused somehow?
 
They leave the pellet surface but don't settle in the tank because their main source of food is the pellets.
 
luther1200 said:
If this is true then what is the point? I thought the whole point of carbon dosing was to feed bacteria which take up N/P as they grow then get skimmed out. If they never leave the pellet surface how do they get skimmed out? Or do I have it confused somehow?
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If you don't skim the bacteria out, you don't remove the nitrate and phosphate from the tank. That's the way I understand it too. If some other mechanism is at work I'd like to know because my freshwater cichlid tank could use some nitrate help.
 
DeepReefExotics said:
Well they state that there is absolutely no carbon released unless the surface bateria break it down which why I ordered these last night and that u cant overdose as nothing is released into the water. Or atleast that is my understanding of what these are.

But if it is just a slow release vodka pellet then you might aswell buy a dosing pump for the money and come out paying much less in the long run.
Click to expand...

I don't think you have anything to worry about as long as you add the recommended dosage. My earlier statement was reffering to another one that said you could add 50%-100% more than normal and be OK, but I am not to sure about that.
 
luther1200 said:
If this is true then what is the point? I thought the whole point of carbon dosing was to feed bacteria which take up N/P as they grow then get skimmed out. If they never leave the pellet surface how do they get skimmed out? Or do I have it confused somehow?
Click to expand...

The assumption here is that the bacteria will slough off the pellets as they grow. If there is enough flow, I would guess this to be the case.

In my own experience, I have seen a significant increase in skimmate production since adding the pellets.
 
I think that is the point, that the bacteria grow and then are released from the pellets. That is why you put the pellets in a reactor next to a skimmer, so the bacteria can be efficiently removed.
 
Matt,

The tumbling in the reactor helps free the bacteria into the flow. I have adapted the output of my reactor so that it feeds my skimmer directly. I have noticed an increase in the skimmate and what I can only describe as a frothier head.

Jon
 
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