Natural enemy to those liitle worms in the sand bed that have those nasty tentacles!

[koll12]

I'm looking for something that will start Eating those nasty little worms that are in my sand that have these little feelers that go all overr sans bed ??? Any help please !!!

 

[Snookster]

I suck them out when I do a water change when they start getting too thick.

 

[Kappapibeta]

those worms, if they are bristle worms, are your number 1 detrivore eater. best bang for your buck when it comes to clean up crew. they get in to crevices that snails and crabs cant go, and they stir up your sandbed to keep it aerated. I personally won't do anything to remove them. they are dependent on the feeding that they get, so if you don't have to much detrivore in your tank, they won't multiply too much. If you want to control their population, you can manually take them out of introduce a wrasse to eat the smaller worms (they can't eat the bigger ones).

 

[jimmy_beaner]

spaghetti worms?

 

[BeanAnimal]

The worms are part of what makes tha sandbed work. You no more want to rid them from your tank than you would want to rid worms or bees from your garden.

 

[Amphiprionocellaris]

If I interpreted the description correctly, you're talking about spaghetti worms/terebellid polychaetes. As people have already said, these worms are hugely beneficial to your sandbed (in fact, it couldn't work without them and other worms like them). The best part is that they reproduce fine on their own if the tank is well-fed, so you're looking at a free sand-bed maintenance crew! Course, I'm also biased cause these guys are one of the bases of my PhD research...

Link if you're curious about these critters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terebellid

 

[Opcn]

Back when seacrop was still kicking they sold the small ones for $5 a piece as I recall. I paid $40 a piece for a floridian diver to pick up three large white ones for me and ship them to me in Colorado. They are great, they don't harm anything, all they do is clean up food that would otherwise be nitrates! If they are really a problem I'd say that that is a sign that you are feeding too much and need to either space out your food better so the fish get more or feed less entirely.

That being said I think Horseshoe crabs are a natural predator, but they will wreck most tanks up.

 

[Opcn]

Back when seacrop was still kicking they sold the small ones for $5 a piece as I recall. I paid $40 a piece for a floridian diver to pick up three large white ones for me and ship them to me in Colorado. They are great, they don't harm anything, all they do is clean up food that would otherwise be nitrates! If they are really a problem I'd say that that is a sign that you are feeding too much and need to either space out your food better so the fish get more or feed less entirely.

That being said I think Horseshoe crabs are a natural predator, but they will wreck most tanks up.

 

[GreenTankCorals]

These are beneficial worms and people pay to introduce these in their reef sand bed, me included. Check this site out http://www.ipsf.com/.

 

[rick12]

six line wasse will clean eat them!

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

Send them to me!

 

[returnofsid]

It'll be much easier to give you appropriate advice, once we have a more clear idea of what type of worm you're talking about. You're description could refer to bristle worms, spaghetti worms, Eunecids, or various other types of worms.

 

[elegance coral]

You may have a hard time finding a critter that will eat spaghetti worms. Some species produce poisons/allelopathic substances in their tentacles. this may be to deter predation and/or prevent settlement of other animals. This may also help explain why many corals will close up when they come into contact with them.

http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/MarineInvertebrateZoology/Eupolymniacrassicornis.html


I like the analogy made earlier to earth worms in a garden. It is an analogy that shows how worms are not beneficial in reef tanks though. We strive to keep nutrients like nitrate and phosphate at very low levels. Worms, both in our gardens and our reefs, help to break down solid particles, releasing the nutrients they contain into the environment. This is a good thing in a garden, because we want nitrates and phosphates to fertilize our plants. In our reef tanks, nitrate and phosphate fertilizer algae growth, and cause problems for stony corals. It's better to remove these particles before they have a chance to break down and effect the health of our systems. Worms, especially spaghetti worms, simply help to retain nitrate and phosphate in the system.

 

[Sk8r]

Sounds like spionids. I second the notion to accept what the rock gives you, with the exception of eunicids, mantises, aiptasia, caulerpa, and crabs.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I like the analogy made earlier to earth worms in a garden. It is an analogy that shows how worms are not beneficial in reef tanks though.

We strive to keep nutrients like nitrate and phosphate at very low levels. Worms, both in our gardens and our reefs, help to break down solid particles, releasing the nutrients they contain into the environment. This is a good thing in a garden, because we want nitrates and phosphates to fertilize our plants. In our reef tanks, nitrate and phosphate fertilizer algae growth, and cause problems for stony corals. It's better to remove these particles before they have a chance to break down and effect the health of our systems. Worms, especially spaghetti worms, simply help to retain nitrate and phosphate in the system.[/QUOTE]

I think you took the analogy too literaly. The worms are a welcome part of the sandbed and help it to perform its biological, mechanical and chemical functions. I fail to see how worms in the reef aquarium help to retain nitrate and phosphate to any significant degree.

 

[Opcn]

Those food particles break down eventually, you just need to decide if you want a small percentage of the N&P they contain entering the water as wormpoop or if you want 100% of it entering the water.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Looks like I did not proofread after posting... oh well...

 

[elegance coral]

I fail to see how worms in the reef aquarium help to retain nitrate and phosphate to any significant degree.

Most of us use RO/DI water, so very little N and P enter the system through top off. Most of us use quality salt mixes, so very little N and P enter the system through water changes. This leaves the addition of solid particles of food as our only significant source of N and P. Doesn't it then seem logical that the removal of solid particles would be a very significant means of controlling N and P?

Spaghetti worms capture solid particles as they drift by, or rest on the substrate. These particles, if it weren't for the worm, would at least stand a chance of being removed by the filtration of the system. The worm steals these particles from the filter system and places them in the sand, where the only possible outcome is to rot, decay, and release the N and P they contain into the system. When we are talking about a plaque population like the OP describes, this can be a very significant means of retaining N and P within the system.

Looks like I did not proofread after posting... oh well...

It's all good. I understood what you were doing.

 

[elegance coral]

Those food particles break down eventually, you just need to decide if you want a small percentage of the N&P they contain entering the water as wormpoop or if you want 100% of it entering the water.

IMHO this is where some of the well known authors in this hobby have misled the reader. It is true that the N and P concentration of a solid particle will be reduced as it passes through the gut of a worm. This does not equate to a reduction of free N and P for a stable and mature system, with a stable population of worms. It's been mentioned several times in this thread that the population of worms can be controlled, at least in part, with the amount of food available to them. In a mature and stable system, the amount of food available to worms will be relatively stable. This means the population will be relatively stable. As one worm is taking up N and P, another is dieing and releasing its stored N and P back into the environment. In order to get a reduction of N and P with worms, you would need a constantly growing population of worms. This is simply impossible. It is irrelevant what one individule worm is doing. We need to look at what the entire population is doing.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Most of us use RO/DI water..., so very little N and P enter the system through top off...

With all due respect I am aware of where the N and P come from. My statement was not a question

Doesn't it then seem logical that the removal of solid particles would be a very significant means of controlling N and P?

Sure what is not consumed by the beneficial organisms needs to be removed before it breaks down and is consumed by nuisance organisms. However, that simple statement does not mean that worms eating the food somehow makes them "bad".

Spaghetti worms capture solid particles as they drift by, or rest on the substrate.

As do fish, corals, and other invertebrates.

[/quote]These particles, if it weren't for the worm, would at least stand a chance of being removed by the filtration of the system. The worm steals these particles from the filter system and places them in the sand, where the only possible outcome is to rot, decay, and release the N and P they contain into the system. When we are talking about a plaque population like the OP describes, this can be a very significant means of retaining N and P within the system.[/quote] So are corals, fish and all other living organisms in the tank, and to a MUCH greater extent than the "worm" population, "plague population" or not.

IMHO this is where some of the well known authors in this hobby have misled the reader.

I am not aware of anybody advocating the use of "worms" as a NNR methodology. The "worms" are simply part of a larger mechanism and beneficial to the health of the sandbed. Moreover, they do eat food particles that don't (or won't) make it the the filter. They are no more "stealing" than the corals or fish.

As one worm is taking up N and P, another is dieing and releasing its stored N and P back into the environment. In order to get a reduction of N and P with worms, you would need a constantly growing population of worms. This is simply impossible.

Nobody (that I know of) is advocating the use of worms as a NNR reduction methodology. If they are "in balance" as you say, then there is no net gain or loss anyway. They just continue doing their job of consuming and pooping and turning over the sandbed, allowing other organisms to consume and poop and do their job.

In any event, I am now fairly convinced that ALL of our systems are phosphate sinks regardless of skimming, water changes and other filtration. Without phosphate binding agents or regular massive water changes, the compounds appear to build up in the rock and sand regardless of how hard we try to remove them. "Old Tank Syndrome" has been talked about for several years now, as has "Old Sand Bed Syndrome" etc. That however, is another thread altogether