NEED HELP - Pacific Lettuce Nudibranch (Elysia diomedia)

Well, what the heck, I set up a ribbon that may have already hatched out, we'll probably know tomorrow. Mostly parental water with 200 ML Tetraselmis and 200 ML T-Iso and a couple tufts of bryopsis...that was all I had left to spare after harvesting to do a bryopsis culture.

I'm going to see if I can get some little styros for shipping - lets all hope we get some more egg ribbons to try out...the one is still alive and has regained some color but I'm still wondering how much longer this will last before the spawns are done..the last egg ribbon laid by the "last legs" was only 1/3 the size of the other slug's more recent spawn.

MP
 
Matt, I have a few small styro boxes laying around, maybe i can boc them up together and ship a few back to you. Let me see if I can find a decent way of doing that. I know it WON'T be FedEx Saturday Delivery ;)

My Elysia babies are still doing OK, a few noticeable losses, and a few noticeable crawlers. MAN I wish there was more info out there on rearing methods. What I'm doing is working so far, but I'm certainly not sure it's correct.

Good luck to anyone else who gets some, these guys should be a CB staple in the trade...we just have to figure a way to raise them.

Jason
 
Jason, very cool! I'd think that if we have them out of the planktonic stage and have some "crawlers" all you'd really need is enough bryopsis to grow them up..granted things never seem to go how I *think* they should ;)

If I don't find any of those little styros locally I may just take you up on that offer Jason - thanks!

Matt
 
Here are a couple of things that seemed to help me with survival. My methods were probably pretty stringent, I know of a lot of incidents where people had luck just in their reef tanks. But, I got better survival using membrane filtered aged aquarium water, and I rinsed the bryopsis with it before adding it. I did shallow dishes without aeration and partial water changes daily. Just a hint of green tet and iso, although I also had them come through just fine without any micro, so I think it is optional. But I had fatter crawlers and they settled sooner with micro.
 
Thanks Olin, that's good info. Could you give us an idcea on time frames from laying to hatching to crawling? I've read everything from 16 hours to 5 days for this to take place, if your Elysia were closely related, Matt and I would both love to hear that info too.

Thanks,

Jason
 
Well..I guess all those time ranges are correct. Most settled without aeration by 24-36 hours max, but there were stragglers up to day 9. Perhaps a dispersal mechanism having such a range? Crawling only meant settled. They still didn't have a real slug morpgology, more like a flat veliger. They looked like real slugs by day 4. Now as for closely related, ID's on Sea of Cortez species basically is based on "does it look like a California Species?". The guides I have place it as either Elysia, Tridachia, or Tridachiella (all diomedea as the species hmmm.). So, I'd guess they are a subspecies or color variant of E. diomedea. They seem to have identical external morphology, not that that helps much with slugs.
 
Thanks Olin,

Mine seem to have found their turbo button overnight last night. The were really cruising this morning (for slugs). I did catch a better look at one through the loupe, and i'm certain I was successful getting at least SOME to settle. Right now they look kinda like tiny clear flatworms with brown and tan spots, some getting more of a green tint.

The one I caught was on the mesh, and was maybe 1mm in length. Once I saw his speed, I stared at the bryopsis for a minute and saw 3 or 4 more movers, one was almost twice as big as the rest, and appeared to already be developing the folds on his back...could've been "wishful seeing" but I don't think so.

This was all about 5 minutes after lights on this AM. I'm going to make a concerted effort to get some video through the loupe tonight and get something posted tomorrow but I'm feeling pretty confident at the moment.

Jason
 
Nah Matt, these aren't really flatworms, they just kinda resemble tiny ones. The only thing in the bag that went into the breeding trap from you was the egg strand, I pulled bryopsis from my "farm" and added yours back to it. I figured it would be better if it was attached to a rock. I don't think there is any way a flatworm could have gotten in to the breeding trap.

PS - Something is fishy with my bank account, it has plenty in it, but it won't accept my elec. payment, your PayPal, or my cable internet payment. Called this AM and they said fraud detection had it "under review"...yikes! As soon as they decide that I am worthy of spending my own money (and that someone else isn't doing it for me) you'll have your transaction. Sorry for the delay...not going to stiff ya' ;)

Jason
 
6-5-06 - TWO MORE EGG RIBBONS UP FOR GRABS! - if you want to try and raise them shoot me a PM - I'm again out of boxes but I can probably scounge some up! One large, one small, they can probably both go to one person - both were laid today, both on the glass, so we have about a 24 hour window!

MP
 
The eggs Matt sent to me hatched yesterday and the little suckers seem to be eating well. Of course they are a little hard to see. Soon I will release them into my reef. They are in a small breeder enclosure in the reef now.
paul
 
OK, so wait a second...sorry to post this to both threads but I'm not sure which ones Jason and Paul are watching:

Are you guys just hatching these in breeder nets with some bryopsis? The veligers are making it in there? Heck, I have tons of spare breeder nets, tons of bryopsis and tons of caulpera prolifera...is that all I really need to do? Don't need to hatch them seperately???

MP
 
Matt, I hatched them in a small breeder just so I could see if they hatched. I think most of them already got out and are in my reef. I only see a few of them left in the breeder which has holes much larger then the slugs so they could easily escape into the larger tank which is slugproof.
Paul
 
some one had said theres a sea slug forum... i cant seem to find it.



and matt, just got the ribbon in and i cant wait. ill pm you after work.
 
I wonder if there are certain "cues" for them to either become pelagic or benthic larvae depending on the situation. I recall reading with the Berghia nudis that you can bypass the planktonic stage. Okay, did some searching and it was Anthony Calfo who wrote the article for RK Mag and here's an excerpt:

"To the aquarist's further advantage, larval Berghia hatched in un-aerated vessels may navigate the planktonic stage and settle out faster to begin feeding on anemones. My limited experience rearing hundreds of these nudibranchs does not yet dispute this theory, and I'm eager to examine the issue more closely in time. At least one reference cites excessive aeration of egg-bearing containers as an impediment to proper embryonic development. At any rate, rest assured that adults and egg masses alike need little or no aeration when water quality is kept well via regular water changes and due diligence with evaporation compensation. "

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/ac/feature/index.php

When I had mine breeding (likely E. crispata) it was in my 155 reef with plenty of flow, so I can't see the larvae settling like they did after running through the pumps, filters, etc. during an extended phase...so they likely settled fairly quickly.
 
(MP wonders how many viable larvae he may have tossed simply because he couldn't see them).
 
I can tell you that if you aren't looking for them, you'd never know they were there. The berghia stuff mentioned above is waht prompted me to put them in a breeding trap in the lowest flow corner if the tank. The bryopsis wasn't even moving where I have them. Twice a day I point the return from the sump at the net breeder for about 10 seconds to circulate new water in from the reef.

The pic experiment was a bust last night...never could get focused. Even at 5.1 megapixels and photoshopped to death they were nothing more than oblong white specs in the pics, no clarity or detail at all. I did get the intakes covered though, so my tank is slug safe now.

My biggest concern is that I'm planning a tank transfer in a few weeks to a larger tank...I have a slight aptasia problem right now, and was planning to rectify that situation in the process. I wonder how many got out of my net. Any guess on how long they will survive with that many in the breeder net?. I may postpone the transfer until I can be sure they will be fine.

Jason
 
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