Need to improve flow into sump

[Hop]

I guess I'm looking at the set up... I'm familiar with the site and the claims. I run dual dursos myself and have 1" bulheads with 1.5" standpipes and 2" plumbing for 30 some feet. I'm getting about 1500 gph through the two 1" bulkheads. but I have gravity and volume above mine with a 6' drop.

The fact that this set up is plumbed through the tank means it's all gravity and no weight/volume. I fully expect they could get 500 through each with this setup if the ball valves and unions are removed. The biggest issue is that any siphon is hit or miss when the water hits the horizontal run of pipe on the other side of the wall with only a small 1-1.5' drop. At this point the siphon can be randomly lost, a burp in the system occurs and the weight/volume of the water is relied upon in order to balance things out.

I had a similar issue on my set up with a 30 some odd foot horizontal run. I fixed it with vents in the plumbing, but this is on a much bigger scale then we are dealing with here. But the reality of coping with gravity came into play, in addition to the siphon/durso principal.

I hope that makes sense:lol:

 

[pugmommie]

So if I did a durso and adjusted the ball values and had lots of flow and was able to have my pump run full strength that would be great. But what happens if the power goes out and I'm not at home. When the power comes back on does the durso have to be adjusted again or will it go back to flowing great. If not then my pump will overflow the DT.

 

[Jacob D]

I can see in some situations, such as 30 foot of horizontal, where a Durso might not work well. Mine was not setup that way, it was simple in the overflow box. The water level was about 1/2" above the inlet of the Durso and it dropped about 3 feet.

The OP can do whatever they want.

IMO a Durso will solve the problem with and with minimal investment of time or money. If it doesn't because of some obscure plumbing they can return the 4 additional pieces to the hardware store.

 

[Jacob D]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14066014#post14066014 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pugmommie
So if I did a durso and adjusted the ball values and had lots of flow and was able to have my pump run full strength that would be great. But what happens if the power goes out and I'm not at home. When the power comes back on does the durso have to be adjusted again or will it go back to flowing great. If not then my pump will overflow the DT.

The Durso is self priming and self stabilizing. Power outage will not be an issue. When the pump is stopped and started the flow will at first go from full siphon to stable flow, so you'll get a flush or two then things will smooth out.


edit: you may from time to time have to adjust the valve, such as if your pump needs cleaning and is flowing less or if the valve is becoming blocked by salt creep. In any case you want to make sure that you DO tune the air valve for FULL FLOW on your pump that way they are set up to handle the most that can be thrown at them. I used to adjust the valve on mine once every couple of months on average.

 

[Hop]

Here is the other issue right off the durso site:

With 1 inch and smaller bulkheads the standpipe PVC diameter needs to be larger than the bulkhead to work correctly. I get a lot of e-mail questions on why this is. Honestly, I’m not sure. Typically if you use 1 inch PVC pipe on a 1 inch bulkhead you get poor results. (Some exceptions with smaller low flow tanks.)

The other issue is that the bulkhead is in the middle of the durso, not the bottom. Like I said (I've played with this a few hundred times on a few different tank and fuges, recently throwing in the towel and up-sizing to a 1.5" bulkhead in my fuge) it's not going to solve the current issue

 

[Jacob D]

I agree that replumbing at 1.5" will help and should solve the issue, there is no question there.

 

[Hop]

:lol: I have a glass hole saw for a 1.5" bulk head... I could always mail it?

 

[therealfatman]

This is information from glass-holes.com. I have found it to be true.

Our testing demonstrates that a 1 inch bulkhead will flow around 350 gph reliably. This is near the surface, gravity fed, siphoning not being allowed to occur. An 1.5 inch bulkhead in the same circumstances flow 950 gph.

You are obviously not getting a large enough flow through your bulkheads for the pumping capacity of your pump.

Why do you want to run so much water through your sump anyway? You must realise for the cost of energy needed using water pumped from your sump back to your tank for in tank circulation makes that method the most inefficient method available. The more efficient methods are to only drain the water to your sump needed to supply your skimmer and refugium and supply the rest of your circulation with power heads or a closed loop circulatuion system.

 

[pugmommie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14068234#post14068234 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by therealfatman


Why do you want to run so much water through your sump anyway?

My main concern is flow out of the DT. I am worried the way we set it up originally it will not be able to keep up if one of the overflows got restricted in any way.:eek1:

 

[pugmommie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14066440#post14066440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
:lol: I have a glass hole saw for a 1.5" bulk head... I could always mail it?

Thanks for the offer. I might have a nervous breakdown watching my husband try to make the hole bigger:eek1:

Have you ever cut holes in your tank?

 

[billdogg]

visit www.glass-holes.com for a great how-to video. its very easy to do - have done quite a few myself over the years - so far, no broken tanks,(knock on wood)

 

[kgross]

I will tell you don't try to run the pump full speed. You don't need lots of flow through your sump. You only need to have the flow rate equal to the skimmer flow rate to maximize skimming efficiency.

Kim
.

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14068436#post14068436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pugmommie
Thanks for the offer. I might have a nervous breakdown watching my husband try to make the hole bigger:eek1:

Have you ever cut holes in your tank?

In tanks yes, but not my current tank. It was low-iron and I paid for someone else to do it this time

 

[Hop]

I would say that if you can get the valve a tad more than 1/2 way open with the new plumbing, your pushing the upward end of 5X the tank volume through the sump and you have hit a good number. If you can accomplish this, then I think you work is done and you can quit sweating it and move on to the next part

 

[pugmommie]

Hop, Thanks for the help we are at the tad more than half way open. Looks like we have good flow through the sump and for the most part everything is pretty quiet. Next step, drain the test water then fire up the RO/DI unit and mix in some salt.