NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[hazmat319]

OMG.....I read this entire thread trying to FULLY understand how to plumb my tank using the Herbie Method. I missed out on A LOT of Judge Judy due to the pages and pages of bickering. Don't you people realize some of us have important things to do, shows to watch?!:lmao:

After having a VERY noisy 90 gallon tank in Texas I plan on plumbing my 75 this way. My concern is I'm not sure how much water my sump will take. This might just have to be a "try and find out" experiment. But I'm assuming from reading and reading and reading:reading: that I don't have to have my main drain line super low in the overflow? Right? The higher it is the less water will drain into my sump when the pump is off? But I want it low enough so I don't create a vortex?

I do plan on having an ATO (how does anyone live without one?) which I plan to put in my return area with my Eheim pump.

And....I know it was asked before and maybe someone else can chime in. If I regularly turn off the pumps/skimmer to feed my fish is there any special considerations I need to account for?

I turn off the pump....water drains into my sump....I feed the fish....and then just turn the pump back on and I'm back in business? No fiddling or having to shut down the gate valve etc?

Whew!:hmm4: This is longer than the Bryopsis thread!

 

[tcfab]

I am having a 120 gallon rimless built and I am going to be using a Reeflo Snapper pump for a return. I am estimating the tank will receive 1400-1500 gph of flow. Should I have the tank manufacture do 1.5" bulkheads for primary standpipe and 1.5" for emergency standpipe or stay with 1" on both?

 

[hazmat319]

I am having a 120 gallon rimless built and I am going to be using a Reeflo Snapper pump for a return. I am estimating the tank will receive 1400-1500 gph of flow. Should I have the tank manufacture do 1.5" bulkheads for primary standpipe and 1.5" for emergency standpipe or stay with 1" on both?

If you're having it built I would go with bigger drains. You can always close down a drain but you're SOL if your drain is too small. The only remedy to that is to buy a lesser pump.

I feel lucky that both the holes in my RR 75 are 1" bulkheads. Most are 1" and 3/4".
Maybe one of the guru's will check in here at some point.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

I agree w/ JThomps... your backup drain will eventually become a true siphon once it becomes completely submerged and all air is pushed out of the drain tube.... of course the siphon will break once the water level drops down and air once again enters the drain tube and thus the process will repeat itself indefinitely. Thus, a bad gurgling noise will ensue alerting everyone that there is something wrong with the tank.

Cheers,
John

 

[TheFishMan65]

I understand this so I will try and answer some questions. Powerman used to be really good at answering - he and I has some lively discussion about siphons too. I ended up agreeing with him.

I would agree bigger drains are always better.

There was a question about what the gate does on the return. It controls the height of the water in the weir. Close it some and the water backs to create more pressure (and a faster flow). Open it and the water level goes down for less pressure and a slower flow. In either case it matches the output of your return pump, unless you go too far out of range.

Turning off the pumps should not matter. You will just get some noise until the water level gets back up to the correct level. Then the head pressure will cause the flow to match the return pump.

There was a big discussion about the third drain in the Bean's design. Not to rehash an arguement, but when I read the thread. It was there striclty to make the adjustment of the valve easier. If you have lots of room (like a weir) for the level to adjust it is not really needed. Bean's design looked like he needed to keep the level pretty constant.

I hope I am helping.

 

[hazmat319]

Well you answered one of my questions so I appreciate it!! Thanks!

 

[TheFishMan65]

Your welcome. If you ask again I will try and answer. I have been offline since October and trying to catch up. Pages and Pages and Pages to read

 

[d2mini]

So i've been running this herbie setup for a few weeks now and noticing that the water level in the overflow changes with the water level in the sump. I will eventually have an ATO set up but right now I do not and I'm doing manual top offs every couple days. As the water evaporates and the level drops in the sump, the water level in the overflow follows suit. Is this normal?

This is an amazing setup though. Completely silent as advertised!

 

[TheFishMan65]

Sump Level

Sump Level

So i've been running this herbie setup for a few weeks now and noticing that the water level in the overflow changes with the water level in the sump. I will eventually have an ATO set up but right now I do not and I'm doing manual top offs every couple days. As the water evaporates and the level drops in the sump, the water level in the overflow follows suit. Is this normal?

This is an amazing setup though. Completely silent as advertised!

As the sump goes down the pump has to work harder to get the water back to the main tank - less water flow. Since less water is drained less pressure is needed to 'push' the water back to the pump. So yes, I would say it is normal.

I think that this is one of the reason BeanAnimal did three drains. It was easier to tune.

 

[jthomps123]

As the sump goes down the pump has to work harder to get the water back to the main tank - less water flow. Since less water is drained less pressure is needed to 'push' the water back to the pump. So yes, I would say it is normal.

I think that this is one of the reason BeanAnimal did three drains. It was easier to tune.

The third drain in a bean is the emergency drain. It never sees water unless there is stoppage/cloggage in the first two drains.

I run a herbie with a ATO and constant level in my sump and have no problems with levels. If using an ATO I see no advantages to a bean drain.

 

[jthomps123]

As the sump goes down the pump has to work harder to get the water back to the main tank - less water flow. Since less water is drained less pressure is needed to 'push' the water back to the pump. So yes, I would say it is normal.

I think that this is one of the reason BeanAnimal did three drains. It was easier to tune.

The third drain in a bean is the emergency drain. It never sees water unless there is stoppage/cloggage in the first two drains.

I run a herbie with a ATO and constant level in my sump and have no problems with levels. If using an ATO I see no advantages to a bean drain.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I suppose it is all how you count. Bean and Herbie both have a full flow and emergency. So to me the new drain (3rd) BeanAnimal added is the durso.

I can see where the BeanAnimal might be useful. Anything (like a wave maker) that will be changing the height of the water in realtionship to the full flow drain might benefit from the BeanAnimal design. Can't speak with any fact since I have not built the Bean design nor do I have a wave maker, but I can see where it might be useful.

 

[dave.m]

I hope I'm not asking questions that have already been asked (I quail at the thought of having to read all 47 pages, but will if these have been answered).

My understanding from reading Mssrs. Sprung and Delbeek is that the fall down the standpipe is one of the main sources of re-oxygenation for the tank water. By creating a full syphon, the Herbie/BeanAnimal method seems to prevent any re-oxygenation during the fall to the sump. Am I wrong? Has anyone measured this? Are you relying on some other source to replace oxygenation lost from the straight standpipe method?

Also from reading Sprung and Delbeek, having the edge of the weir remain smooth across the length of the weir as in BeanAnimal's description of his Calfo-style overflow does not break up much of the oily matter that gathers on the aquarium surface. Surface turbulence is required to break this matter up so that it will drain. Turbulence is provided by crenelations (teeth) across the edge of the weir. I have seen several examples of RC members who do not employ this method on their tanks. Has someone done some sort of research to refute what has been previously written?

Please note that I am asking these questions to clear up my own confusion, and not as any form of criticism.

Thx,

Dave

 

[PowermanKW]

There is a lot of oxygenation going on with a regular drain, but I would not say it is the major one. My skimmer is doing 900 lph at 6000ft and creating a ginourmous surface/exchange area. I don't have exact figures, but I would say I'm getting all the exchange I need.

 

[dave.m]

Okay, but what if I chose to go with the Miracle Mud system that eschews protein skimmers? Where would my re-oxygenation come from?

Again, I'm not trying to find fault with anyone or anything, I'm just trying to get my head around what seems to me to be conflicting methods/theories.

Thx,

Dave

 

[PowermanKW]

What's conflicting? Herbies are for quietness and no bubbles. If you do not want to use a skimmer, then the bubbles are good for you. Just a tank of water sitting there even with power heads, water going through an overflow and mixing with air will be better than just a tank. Most folks choose to run skimmers and O2 levels are not a problem. Even for me at altitude, I'm at saturation for my parameters.

 

[dave.m]

Do you measure for oxygenation? Do you know if the water going back to your tank is at saturation or super-saturation point?

Thx,

Dave

 

[PowermanKW]

No I don't, but my air is pretty thin up here. For my temp, altitude, and salinity, saturation is only 5.2. I have no doubts I'm there. I do have DO tests at work and have been curious. Maybe I'll test it this week end.

When I redid my plumbing, I over sized my drains. Well it was super loud and had a ton of bubbles in my sump which drove me to do a Herbie. Even when I had my regular over flow, yes there were bubbles in my sump. A lot more with the oversized drain line. It is still nothing compared to the surface area in my skimmer and the air exchange taking place.

If you don't use a skimmer then creating surface area is what you are after. Like using bio balls. Not saying to do that, but that was one of their advantages. Oversized drains and encouraging water breakup will help O2 levels, but that is outside the purpose of what the Herbie is for.

 

[karsco]

I have not seen this thread in a while and just wanted to post my results. I have been very happy with the Herbie setup it runs ultra quite and is real easy to adjust. I kind of modified my piping a little bit since I am also running a RDSB off of the overflow line, so I have two (2) gate valves. One controls the overflow, the other controls the flow through the RDSB.

 

[Rhodes19]

Ok, after reading all 47 pages, I am considering using this method for my 180.
My biggest question is for the folks with the bigger tanks (125+) with 2 overflows. Are you still having water level fluctuations in you're overflows and if not, what was your fix? If it was in the previous pages, I'm sorry if I missed it. My 180 has 2 corner overflows. Each one has a 1" drain and a 3/4" return and at the moment, the splashing sound in the sump is louder than the pump. I'm looking at installing a gate valve into both 1" drain lines near the sump, run the 3/4" lines to the sump, and make my return go up and over the back of the tank (haven't figured out how that will look at the moment). Is there anything else I need to look at doing or consider before I start the project? Thanks.