noticing a trend in japan and or asia with fishkeeping

[twelvejewelz]

After viewing countless videos on youtube posted from people from the Asia area i notice that there is a continuing theme of really overstocking their fishtanks with fish. I have seen small tanks with 10 or so Dwarf angelfish , tons of tanks with tons of mixed tangs, large and dwarf angels as well. I wonder why in the U.S we have a different approach and people look down on this? It seems to work really well for them and im actually contemplating trying out myself.I love the look of alot of fish in a tank. Not totally overcrowded but im thinking of trying mabe 5-10 different dwarf angels and mabe 15 or so anthias in a 75 gallon reef.What are your thoughts on this? It seems people in that part of the world have allot of success with this method and the tanks are absolutely amazing!!!

 

[2006]

here come the fireworks

 

[Stumped]

I wonder why in the U.S we have a different approach and people look down on this? It seems to work really well for them and im actually contemplating trying out myself.

Probably because there's a huge difference between having your fish thrive while achieving longterm success and something that 99% of the time either falls under a pointless internet video stunt or a very short lifespan for the fish.

Just curious, but what are you basing your comment on that it seems to work really well for them? It's impossible to prove (even with a series of videos) that the exact same fish are present for the video and aren't either removed or replaced over time. So you have no way of knowing if those overstocked tanks are running for an hour, a day, a week, etc.

Even if you disregard any argument about the potential cruelty of cramming so many fish in a small space, you're still left with the fact that you're building a house of cards. The slightest thing goes wrong in a massively overstocked tank and you've lost everything. Something as simple as a fish dying could trigger a chain reaction that could wipe out the entire tank. Now think about all the points of failure on any tank (heaters, skimmers, lights, etc). In a lightly or moderately stocked tank, a slight malfunction isn't a total catastrophe.

Edit - I want to add since this thread is taking a turn to focus on ethnicity. I want to clarify that my own comments were only with regard to massively overstocked tanks in general. I know next to nothing about trends outside North America and am only commenting on the general practice.

 

[BFG]

Nice to use the brush and broad paint us asian. :smokin:

 

[twelvejewelz]

sorry BFG didnt mean any disrespect at all!!!! But i wasnt just talking about the Japanese thats why i added in "asian" as well
There are a few people on there that have amazing SPS tanks as well as other tanks that are heavily stocked with fish. I spoke to a guy and he said he has his 125 setup for 4 years and there is about 40 fish in it.Its absolutely stunning as well and he said he had to mix and match a few fish but other than that he has had basically no problems. His SPS tank is running almost 7 years and it is my dream tank lol . Im just curious though as i see people always knocking everything simply because they dont do it.. I mean really every single "new theory" in this hobby will have people that swear by it and people that bash it so im not always quick to take people words for anything...

 

[twelvejewelz]

here come the fireworks

yea i figured but its fine im a man i can take it . Like i said above though any kind of "innovation" in this hobby will have its die hard fans and its "haters" so i dont really like to trust much when it comes to peoples "word for it" if you know what i mean.

 

[yellojello]

Asian fishes are typically smaller, like us Asian people. Seen how many people we can cram into a house? or in a car? j/k

You should not generalize Asian fish keeping as a whole. I'm sure there are just as many people in any other country, including U.S., that overstock their tanks... with and without success.

Fish keeping is fish keeping, no matter who you are.

 

[Bonta]

What I also notice that they keep up with their water changes 100% . Like, they do rather large ones too and sometimes do it twice a week. Ex : 40-60%

 

[twelvejewelz]

lol yellowjello. People please Dont mistake this thread for a thread on "ethnicity" Its a thread on practical fish keeping and the differences in different parts of the world.As many people know what works for one person wont work for everyone so please stay on topic .(perhaps i asked the question wrong and im in no way trying to offend anyone so please leave that stuff at the door)
thanks

 

[twelvejewelz]

What I also notice that they keep up with their water changes 100% . Like, they do rather large ones too and sometimes do it twice a week. Ex : 40-60%

See thats the stuff im talking about. I know people for sure have had long term success with this overstocking method and id like to know reasoning behind it thanks Bonta.
Also i have bred and raised countless african cichlids and with them it is encouraged to over stock so this way some fish act as "dither" fish and no one fish would take the brunt of any harassment. Now i read that people say that this method wont work with marine fish but im kinda thinking they might be wrong in some reguards..

 

[twelvejewelz]

Heres one of the tanks im talking about here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9COFxy0RSWA

it seems pretty heavily stocked and it looks amazing! There is a mixture of a few different kinds of dwarf angels, a few large angels and alot of anthias.Its not the most drastic one ive seen its actually on the lower end of the spectrum but its beautiful none the less.

 

[piusma]

Lets look at it in a different perspective. In asia, some cities cost a lot for housing, let's say an apartment could easily cost over $1million US for under 800 sq feet. That's an average of $1200US / sq foot of space. It is not always feasible or makes sense to house a large tank over there. And cost of fish are relatively lower than what we pay over here. Some of the standards we have in North America just doesn't apply there.

I grew up with a family of 4 living in an apartment less than 600 sq. feet. and to me it's no different than putting 15 dwarf angels in a 20 gallon tank. For those who had kept African cichlids would understand the overstocking theory to diverse aggression. As long as you can keep up the water quality and able to diverse the aggression, you should be able to keep the fish alive. However, it doesn't translate into keeping the fish alive happily.

Steven

 

[twelvejewelz]

Lets look at it in a different perspective. In asia, some cities cost a lot for housing, let's say an apartment could easily cost over $1million US for under 800 sq feet. That's an average of $1200US / sq foot of space. It is not always feasible or makes sense to house a large tank over there. And cost of fish are relatively lower than what we pay over here. Some of the standards we have in North America just doesn't apply there.

I grew up with a family of 4 living in an apartment less than 600 sq. feet. and to me it's no different than putting 15 dwarf angels in a 20 gallon tank. For those who had kept African cichlids would understand the overstocking theory to diverse aggression. As long as you can keep up the water quality and able to diverse the aggression, you should be able to keep the fish alive. However, it doesn't translate into keeping the fish alive happily.

Steven

yea i understand that 100%. But those fish in the take i posed look perfectly happy and healthy to me. Who is to say weather fish in an over stocked tank are happy and/or healthy though.This is where the arguements arise in this hobby.I mean if water quality is good, no fish are getting severly abused/harassed, there all eating and swimming around wonderfully and getting along for the most part then why not ?

 

[suta4242]

Part of the beauty with marine fish, is observing territorial behaviour that we see in the wild. Now, by no stretch of the imagination will our tanks ever resemble the wild. But 2 or 3 pygmy angels in 100 gallon tank will behave very differently than if there were 15 dwarf angels in the same tank. I've watched the behaviour of angels in such tanks even if its just on you tube. Might be beautiful to some, but completely uncomfortable viewing for me.

I also don't want my tank to look like a seafood restaurant holding tank; which is what some of these tanks remind me of. Or my fish to look like they're in a holding pattern because the tanks so overcrowded. Maximum carrying capacity isn't a consideration because I think its at odds with my idea of a reef tank - or even a good FO tank. This is just a personal opinion though and, in all fairness, I've seen many overcrowded tanks locally too. We just use fewer anthias in them.:beer:

 

[rachenbrazil]

I have an overstocked fish only tank. It is not easy to maintain as require more investment on skimmer and other filters, more water changes and etc. Maybe in near future will have trouble with some fish choices, but now my tank is fine, fishes are growing and getting well.
I saw some overstocked fish tank in HK and in Taiwan, they do invest a lot in water changes (2 - 3 times a week !). Fish overturn is not that high as supposed, but some people do keep adding fish to replace dead ones ...but those tanks with more rare angels does not do it as even cheaper than in US ...they are still expensive...
If carefully checked, these overstock tanks always use angels...and in my own experience...they do tolerate better overstocking and can live together in these conditions...

 

[Amoore311]

It is not easy to maintain as require more investment on skimmer and other filters, more water changes and etc.

This is a very important point as well. Most people are quick to jump at stuffing 5x as many fish as they should have in the tank. But the same people will balk at investing in the equipment/maintenance schedule that will be needed to properly run the tank.

 

[dc]

I can't even see this going anywhere but down, so I'll save you guys from yourselves and lock this thread. Please don't start another one.