Nudibranchs No More
- Thread starter MUCHO REEF
- Start date
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
It's been five days since I put the sea grass wrasse in. He ate all the pods in the first few hours in a small refuge. He hasn't had anything to eat in 5 days. He's gotta be hungry by now. I found a nudi today. Dropped in front of his face, he looked and swam away.
Of course this could be just this wrasse. Some may eat nudi's, some may not.
A while back I read a article (not sure I can find it again) that mentioned how scientists are not sure if the nudi injest the poison from the zoo or transport it on ther outer tissue to there back. They did confirm that the back is where the tart tasting poison is stored. The article mentioned that nudibranch eggs don't carry the poison and are victom to prey by fish. They would need to hatch and then injest the zoo poison.
I have (just counted) 125+ zoo colonies and about 100 (just counted) frags. With this many zoo's I would think that I would have a enormous nudibranch problem. I've dipped 4 rocks in 5 months. Those five rocks produced maybe 8 to 10 nudis (total). I have also found another 5 or so crawling about. So, thats 15 nudis in 5 months on 225 zoo's. I have one six line wrasse in 120gal (the tank that had the massive population exlosion in December) which also had a manderine that I moved to the 240gal. The 240 now has the manderine and a six line as well.
Is this a good ratio for the amount of zoo's? I think it would be.
Questions?
1.)For those who have any kind of wrasse, how is the reproduction rate of your nudibranch.
2.) For those who don't have a wrasse, how is your reproduction rate for the nudibranch.
3.)Who has several wrasse in a single tank that has nudibranch.
4.)What is the reproduction rate of these tanks with several wrasses.
5.)Who has several wrasse and a lot of zoo's that don't have nudibranch (especially those who don't quaritine)(sad thing is these folks probably aren't on this thread because they may not have the problem).
Point in all these questions is:
Is it possible for several wrasse (like the six and eight line,small mouth) to consume the egg population to the point of extinction.
If so, this would explain why the nudibranch population has not totaly devoured the zooathid in the wild. Maybe it's not "a" preditor, as more "many preditors" (wrasses and others) that are keeping these under control.
I do not have a problem purchasing half dozen wrasses.
Please supply some feedback to evaluate this theory. I'm headed to the store for more six lines.
Thanks in advance.
Of course this could be just this wrasse. Some may eat nudi's, some may not.
A while back I read a article (not sure I can find it again) that mentioned how scientists are not sure if the nudi injest the poison from the zoo or transport it on ther outer tissue to there back. They did confirm that the back is where the tart tasting poison is stored. The article mentioned that nudibranch eggs don't carry the poison and are victom to prey by fish. They would need to hatch and then injest the zoo poison.
I have (just counted) 125+ zoo colonies and about 100 (just counted) frags. With this many zoo's I would think that I would have a enormous nudibranch problem. I've dipped 4 rocks in 5 months. Those five rocks produced maybe 8 to 10 nudis (total). I have also found another 5 or so crawling about. So, thats 15 nudis in 5 months on 225 zoo's. I have one six line wrasse in 120gal (the tank that had the massive population exlosion in December) which also had a manderine that I moved to the 240gal. The 240 now has the manderine and a six line as well.
Is this a good ratio for the amount of zoo's? I think it would be.
Questions?
1.)For those who have any kind of wrasse, how is the reproduction rate of your nudibranch.
2.) For those who don't have a wrasse, how is your reproduction rate for the nudibranch.
3.)Who has several wrasse in a single tank that has nudibranch.
4.)What is the reproduction rate of these tanks with several wrasses.
5.)Who has several wrasse and a lot of zoo's that don't have nudibranch (especially those who don't quaritine)(sad thing is these folks probably aren't on this thread because they may not have the problem).
Point in all these questions is:
Is it possible for several wrasse (like the six and eight line,small mouth) to consume the egg population to the point of extinction.
If so, this would explain why the nudibranch population has not totaly devoured the zooathid in the wild. Maybe it's not "a" preditor, as more "many preditors" (wrasses and others) that are keeping these under control.
I do not have a problem purchasing half dozen wrasses.
Please supply some feedback to evaluate this theory. I'm headed to the store for more six lines.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited:
David4039
New member
I know I am new to the hobby, but since I found that I had these Nudibrach's I have read all that I could and done as much research as I could. The LFS where I got my zoo's had these things in there tank (said they didn't, but I found them and pointed them out). They keep a LOT of corals in one tank....zoanthids, leathers...etc. I have been going there everyday now since I found my nudi's and have found that the ones they have only stay on the orange eyed zoo's. (that is also where I found mine) I have another colony of brown zoo's and there were none on it. My thinking is maybe they only eat orange eyed zoo's and similar kinds of zoo's....I don't really know how speciaes of zoanthids work, but this is my observation.
Also, I captured two nudi's and put them in a baby food jar. After 7 days they were both still alive and there were at least 20-30 egg clusters. My plan was to keep them in the jar to see how long they lived without food and to see how long untill the eggs hatched. Well, I left them in my car the other night and the adults appear to be dead (sorry). I noticed egg clusters on my orange eyed zoo's a few days ago, untill a blue legged hermit found them...he ate all that I saw. Personally I don't like the idea of having to buy a fish, or any critter, to take care of another. Of course, I don't cultivate corals either....I just want them to be ok in my tank. There has to be some kind of home remede that can kill them, with the corals being fine. If I had a 10 gallon sitting around and a few of these pests I would try some, but unfortunatly I don't. I don't know if this helps at all, but it felt good to vent.
One more thing!! Since no-one has found out the scientific name yet, if it is a new species I claim rights to the Steckel Nudibrach!!
Good luck everyone, I am taggin along!
Also, I captured two nudi's and put them in a baby food jar. After 7 days they were both still alive and there were at least 20-30 egg clusters. My plan was to keep them in the jar to see how long they lived without food and to see how long untill the eggs hatched. Well, I left them in my car the other night and the adults appear to be dead (sorry). I noticed egg clusters on my orange eyed zoo's a few days ago, untill a blue legged hermit found them...he ate all that I saw. Personally I don't like the idea of having to buy a fish, or any critter, to take care of another. Of course, I don't cultivate corals either....I just want them to be ok in my tank. There has to be some kind of home remede that can kill them, with the corals being fine. If I had a 10 gallon sitting around and a few of these pests I would try some, but unfortunatly I don't. I don't know if this helps at all, but it felt good to vent.
One more thing!! Since no-one has found out the scientific name yet, if it is a new species I claim rights to the Steckel Nudibrach!!
Good luck everyone, I am taggin along!
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
They have a name. I found them on a site (i'll try to find it again). Had alot of info about them, (feeding(they like eating spounges as well, also leathers),growth etc). Did not give a cure however, other than the fact that wrasses and someother fish ate the eggs. I bought the six lines after reading that articale. My number of nudi's have deplenished dramaticly. Not sure if that was a result of the wrasses or not. Currently on all those (225) zooanthids, I can't find a sigle clutch of eggs.
I picked up two more hawaiin 6 lines today. See what happens over the next month.
Anybody local to east central florida interested in a sea grass wrasse.
I picked up two more hawaiin 6 lines today. See what happens over the next month.
Anybody local to east central florida interested in a sea grass wrasse.
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
Keep in mind that this sea grass wrasse is a preditor fish and is not reef safe. Peppermint shrimp, history.
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
David4039
New member
I though tI would post this web site that I found. Has some really good stuies done on preditation of Nudibranch's.
http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/full/205/3/367
http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/full/205/3/367
David4039
New member
could this be our guy?
http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=flabamab
also, check this out. an Aeolid that eats Aeolids
http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=9542
http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=flabamab
also, check this out. an Aeolid that eats Aeolids
http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=9542
Last edited:
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
David4039 said:
Without dought the best info supplied yet. Can't believe this little pest can modify its poison to fit the fish or crab that stalks it. Pretty much confirms that fish are not the solution. Or that they are only a temp solution. Takes max 14 days for the adjustment of its nematocyst.
http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content...DEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=biolbull
Explains why there isn't a bottle of nudibranch exit
reefkeeper59
In Memoriam
cheryld1974 said:
So your saying that the wrasse you choose ate all your nudi ,the eggs and you don't have a single nudibranch? Even one?
It's going to take alot longer then two months to determine if it was succesful. Or should we all go out and get this fish instead.
It would seem to me that sceintist that study these (and there are a bunch going back over 100 yrs) would be aware of any preditor that may consume them. From a article I read recently, the nudi can change its venome/poison to match the preitor that seeks it. Even carieing multi venom at the same time. Reason the the multible sacks on its back. Sceintist say they cthey can take in one venom/poison and modify it chemical structure creating a new poison (needed to defend againts a specific preditor). The ajustment in its nematocyst takes two weeks. Once two weeks is up, the fish more than likely won't touch it (maybe even within a couple days). There may only be a few days that the fish may even attemp to devour it.
This sea grass wrasse for example looks like a 20 inch oscar chasing a gold fish into the corner and kicking its ***. Yet mine darted across the tank, looked at my nudi and swam away. Only did it take one into it's mouth when first I dropped a couple copopods in, to get him to the top of tank. He grabed it, spit it out and ran down the corner of the tank as if scared. Couple minutes later he's looking for pods. This guy is willing to starve before taking interest in a nudibranch.
One article mention that there wher large quanities of them on moring lines in water inhabitied by wrasses.
A starfish and a grab wher two possabilities of a preditor that may eat these nudi's and I looked for the grab so far and they are illegal to posess.
Dipping in freshwater may be the only solution.
Who is going to stand there ground that they solved the problem with a wrasse? Anybody? Gotta be 100% shur. ?
David4039
New member
It seems to me that people are focusing on the wrong thing here. I don't have any interest in anything that kills the adults really. What I want to find is something that will either eat the eggs (natural preditation) or someway to kill the eggs with chems or whatever. I think the focus should be on the eggs. Even better would be a combo of the two, but after finding that article it looks like there is little hope of riding a tank of adults with natural preditation. Maybe the only solution is going to just be to manually remove the eggs and adults as you see them.
Guys.. You are not going to believe this..... i recently purchase a wrasse(ok out of impulse, i admit) from red sea... ok it was very nice thus it got me hook on... the lfs owner couldn't ID what this fish is so i decide to bring it home to ID, whats more is that the lfs owner sold me this fish close to his cost cos he was trying out diff wrasse from red sea....
Took it home, after flipping different books, finally got a proper ID... it was a halichoeres scapularis or commonly called the Zigzag wrasse.... its not commonly collected... wow a halichoeres, i decided to add it to my tank(if it was a thalassoma, i was have pss it on to someone) thinking that it may help my clam free of pyramid snail.. just for prevention
I guess most of you guys know that i have a 60gallon full zoos and clam tank.... ok heres what happen, on the first day of introduction, this wrasse has been going ard picking on my zoos, not sure whats its eating but at that time i was thinking it maybe feeding on tiny starfish and crabs....Ok now this is the intersting part, i bought this fish 3 days ago and 2days ago i spotted a adult nudi climbing on the walls of my tank... i was like OH NO.... i immediately went to get my tweezers to remove it... While removing, the nudi accidentally came of(at that time i was like oh no, this guy is gonna destroy my zoos collection if it gets into my tank).. while the nudi was dropping to my sandbed, the wrasse just WAMP.... chew and ate it... I was totally stunt and could not believe what i see.....WEll i guess theres always some exception... Nonetheless if this guy doesn't feed on nudi i was still happy to add it to my tank......
Ok this guy is not hard shell invert safe..... I sold my squamosa today and upon removing my squamy, 2 hairy crabs came off... SAme thing the wrasse goes down wth a swoop and the crab was gone..... I do not have any shrimps in my tank so i am please to have this wrasse.....
Conclusion- Happy me, and i may have found a solution to my nudi prob.....
Some pic of the wrasse..... Pic in non flash was noisy as thats the best my lousy sony camera can do....
I will continue to monitor this guy and hopefully bring you guys with more good news... Maybe this guy can be a alternative solution to the sea grass wrasse
Took it home, after flipping different books, finally got a proper ID... it was a halichoeres scapularis or commonly called the Zigzag wrasse.... its not commonly collected... wow a halichoeres, i decided to add it to my tank(if it was a thalassoma, i was have pss it on to someone) thinking that it may help my clam free of pyramid snail.. just for prevention
I guess most of you guys know that i have a 60gallon full zoos and clam tank.... ok heres what happen, on the first day of introduction, this wrasse has been going ard picking on my zoos, not sure whats its eating but at that time i was thinking it maybe feeding on tiny starfish and crabs....Ok now this is the intersting part, i bought this fish 3 days ago and 2days ago i spotted a adult nudi climbing on the walls of my tank... i was like OH NO.... i immediately went to get my tweezers to remove it... While removing, the nudi accidentally came of(at that time i was like oh no, this guy is gonna destroy my zoos collection if it gets into my tank).. while the nudi was dropping to my sandbed, the wrasse just WAMP.... chew and ate it... I was totally stunt and could not believe what i see.....WEll i guess theres always some exception... Nonetheless if this guy doesn't feed on nudi i was still happy to add it to my tank......
Ok this guy is not hard shell invert safe..... I sold my squamosa today and upon removing my squamy, 2 hairy crabs came off... SAme thing the wrasse goes down wth a swoop and the crab was gone..... I do not have any shrimps in my tank so i am please to have this wrasse.....
Conclusion- Happy me, and i may have found a solution to my nudi prob.....
Some pic of the wrasse..... Pic in non flash was noisy as thats the best my lousy sony camera can do....
I will continue to monitor this guy and hopefully bring you guys with more good news... Maybe this guy can be a alternative solution to the sea grass wrasse
jamal-188
In Memoriam
I know the wrasse is not a long term solution and it won't solve the egg problem. I'm just hoping it could dwindle the numbers to the point where I can scrub the eggs. I have far too many corals/rock that have had monti nudi's on to scrub every single rock for weeks/months on end.
Similar threads
