Nutrient Pulse Reactor (DIY DyMiCo filter)

[dingodan87]

I see

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[dingodan87]

Just got what you meant with the water level difference ozia. You mean i need to have the water level in the filter bed and the stand pipe 3 " from the rim of the filter or it will overflow. I am setting the baffles so the middle chamber will overflow into the 3rd chamber before overflowing over the rim of filter. Are you using the same flush pump as dymico uses? Is that typical with their systems as well?

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[OzIA]

Good idea, always have a safety bypass. I am not using the same pump or configuration at all. I retrofit an existing sump so I had limits on what I could do. I ended up splitting the sand bed as I could not reach the total depth in a sump that only ran at 12 inches.

Attached is my configuration.

The flow through the sand bed diminished from where it was when I first set it up. I am not sure if this was due to the sand settling or build-up of the bacteria population. Possibly, some of both conditions. I can see a haze in that chamber that i believe is a bacteria film.

Aaron

 

[dingodan87]

Realizing now thats not the way i drew the baffles but that is my intent

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[dingodan87]

Aaron how long have you had yours running? Have you noticed any of the benefits claimed by the dymico filter?

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[dartier]

Just got what you meant with the water level difference ozia. You mean i need to have the water level in the filter bed and the stand pipe 3 " from the rim of the filter or it will overflow. I am setting the baffles so the middle chamber will overflow into the 3rd chamber before overflowing over the rim of filter. Are you using the same flush pump as dymico uses? Is that typical with their systems as well?

The original DyMiCo filter includes an overflow cut out so the center chamber can overflow into the third. Though they keep the third chamber dry. For my version of it, I made the baffle between the third and centre chamber 1/2" shorter than the one between the first and centre chamber. This should still work out fine even if I don't keep the third chamber as a dry emergency overflow. The stand pipe that I intend to use will keep it isolated and any overflow from the center chamber to the third will simply replace the water that was just pumped up to the DT.

The pump that DyMiCo uses are Tunze models. The smaller model 700 uses a 1073.02 for the process pump and a 1073.04 as the return pump. The larger model 2000 uses a 1073.04 for both pumps. I am using Sicce Silent 3's for both pumps as my filter is modeled after the 2000.

Dennis

 

[OzIA]

A little over two weeks so I really haven't noticed anything yet. I've mainly been trying to tweet the operation to achieve some of the parameters called out in the manual. Like having the unit cycle between 0 and -200 mV.

 

[OzIA]

One more comment / update about the flow through the sand beds. I am pretty sure the bacteria has formed a thick layer in my second chamber (course sand). I was noticing the flow through the fine sand is much better now than the second chamber. The second chamber is the one that gets the carbon dose circulated through it.

I used Florida Crushed Coral as my course media and I believe I should have chosen something even larger. The flow was great when I was first starting up the system. I was running the flush pump all the time, without issue. If I tried that today, water would quickly back up in the return chamber.

I am not sure what media you are selecting for your course bed but I would error on the larger size rather than smaller.

Aaron

 

[dartier]

I like the top down approach Dan. Will you be using glass or acrylic? If you have the option, I would make it deeper. The flow through the fine sand is pretty low, as I found out the other day so you may need to account for a 3 to 4 inch height differential between the overflow and the main filter area.

Dennis, the Apex program I have set up is based on 4-minute intervals, using the "œoscillate" program. This turns an outlet or virtual outlet, either on/off/on or off/on/off, based on time. The Apex logic is fairly rudimentary and this seemed like the best way to emulate the activity of the DyMiCo cycles.

The process pump comes on for one minute and then rests for 1.5 minutes then runs again for another 1.5 minutes. Since there is only a four minute loop, the two run cycles end up being back to back, so 2.5 minutes on and 1.5 minutes off in reality but the key is when it runs during the four minute cycle.

There are three set points or "virtual outlets" in Apex speak. These are simple on / off markers, again using time-based logic coupled with decisions based the value of the ORP. I am not aware of any way to change the way the Apex operates based on the direction the ORP value is moving so this was my solution.

ORP High: If the ORP value is less than 0 mV, this outlet is "on".
ORP Mid: If the ORP value is between zero and -116 mV then this outlet is "œon".
ORP Low: if the ORP value is below -116 mv then this outlet is "œon".

Now I make dosing decisions based on the status of these outlets. I had three of them but I turned off the one called "Hi Dose". Again, these happen every 4 minutes. Well, actually, I had some of these set on 8 minute cycles but changed the Prime cycle to 4 minutes today. Also, I have changed some of the logic and set points over these past few weeks, so some of the steps are redundant and unnecessary.

Prime Dose: Turn on the BRS dosing pump for three seconds, every four minutes, unless the ORP value is greater than -58 mV, then this outlet never turns on.

Mid Dose: Turn on the BRS dosing pump for three seconds, every 8 minutes, unless the ORP High or ORP Low outlets are on.

Hi Dose: Turn on the BRS dosing pump for two seconds unless the ORP is greater than -200 mv. This dosing cycle is no longer used. The actual outlet that drives the BRS pump is a slave to each of these virtual outlets. If any of them go "œon" then the dosing pump outlet turns on.

Finally, I will turn on the flush pump for 12 seconds if the ORP is less than -200 mV. This cycle is timed to wait one minute for the process pump to go into its rest period.

These outlets allow me to see when each of them is activated in comparison to the ORP reading. Basically the dosing pump is trying to come on at the beginning of every cycle but will look at the status of the ORP outlets before doing so. The flush pump tries to do the same thing, one minute into the cycle, unless conditions prevent it. The outcome is that the ORP is fluctuating from -215 to 0mV and the flush pump is coming on when the ORP reaches the low peak. When the fresh water comes in and ORP starts to head toward zero, the flush pump stops cycling and carbon starts to be dosed, in small amounts every four minutes, until the ORP drops down to -200 mV and the process starts again. The process is dynamic, as you can see.

I am not using the filter to provide the calcium and carbonate, that is provided by a CaOH dosing system, which also maintains the water level. The primary reason for trying to implement this is for increased bacteria and nitrate / phosphate reduction.

Aaron

Aaron, I am not too familiar with Apex programming. It kind of looks like it has the capability of calling sequential function calls with some flow control features. Is there a lower level type of coding for Apex? If it has a more 'script language' like mode, I would suggest that might be easier to code a control algorithm in. Things that I would expect that would be handy would be local variables, access to timers and flow control statements.

I ordered the Reef Angel unit that I plan to use to control my filter on the weekend. They were having a Black Friday sale and the base unit was 20% off. I also ordered the 130 lbs of sand and 132 lbs of Reborn media for the filter. I expect to have extra Reborn media. Hopefully I will drive over to Niagara Falls this weekend and pick it all up. With the dry rock for the tank, it should be about 800 lbs of stuff.

That just leaves the home renovations that need to be completed so I can get after the tank builder to finish building my tank and and arrange delivery.

Dennis

 

[OzIA]

800 lbs? That is a car load! Are you using live sand?

I have never used the Reef Angel but it sounds like it is more open than Apex. You can do a lot of things with Apex but there are some serious limits, as I mentioned. Also the programing statements don't make a lot of sense some times.

They do have an almost unlimited capability to add modules. Also, they did just release a new line of flow meters, which might be useful in this application.

Good luck with your build. Do you still think you will be up and running in Dec?

Aaron

 

[dartier]

Yeah, I ordered Live sand and then realized after that I could get dry sand much cheaper locally. It was late on Friday night, so I figured I could just call the BRS customer service first thing Monday and have it taken off my order. Then I received an email on Saturday saying my order was complete and it was already shipped. Oh well.

Looking less likely that I will have the filter up and running in December. If I can just have the tank installed in December, that will be an accomplishment.

Dennis

 

[OzIA]

I used live too. My thinking was that it might help get the filter up and running quicker.

So you have to order from BRS and have it shipped just across the border and then go pick it up?

 

[OzIA]

Check it out. I am going to set this one up on my other tank. I'm calling it the DingoDown version.

28 X 17 X 6 (internal dimensions) It will be a gravity return unit. I have about 8" behind this tank and it has a black panel so it won't be visible.

There is no third compartment, just the return box. It's made of poly carbonate. I coopted the stand-pipe idea from Dan. I'm using pvc compression drain fittings so I can remove or move the final piece of pipe to adjust the water level.

I will probably order some media tomorrow and see if I can get this one going soon.

Aaron

 

[dingodan87]

Check it out. I am going to set this one up on my other tank. I'm calling it the DingoDown version.

28 X 17 X 6 (internal dimensions) It will be a gravity return unit. I have about 8" behind this tank and it has a black panel so it won't be visible.

There is no third compartment, just the return box. It's made of poly carbonate. I coopted the stand-pipe idea from Dan. I'm using pvc compression drain fittings so I can remove or move the final piece of pipe to adjust the water level.

I will probably order some media tomorrow and see if I can get this one going soon.

Aaron

Lol. Sweet! How did you plumb your probe directly to your piping? I was trying to think of a similar idea allowing the probe to be removed from the side of the tank through a bulkhead since itll be hard for me to get the probe in and out for cleaning

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[dartier]

That is really neat Aaron. Did you fabricate that yourself? Really well done. Is the bottom perforated panel removable? You will have some separator between the sandbed layer and the bottom coarse section below the mixing pipe?

Looking forward to seeing how it performs.

Dennis

 

[OzIA]

Dan, It's a probe holder. You just need to find a way to thread it in. There are 1/2 inch threaded bulkhead fittings that would work. Make sure you get threaded bulkhead fittings.

Here is the link on eBay for the holder:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111447881626?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Be aware, you have to drill out the middle some, the probe won't go all the way through without doing that but they are cheaper than others you will find.

Dennis,
Yes. I have a local supply house that sells me their scrap. That is why I was limited on the size. I have to make do with what I can get. They had 4 of these 28.5 X 17.5 pieces of polycarbonate. I paid $20 for the lot and turned it into this. Bottom perforated panels (2) are removable. They sit on a 3/8 edge that also adds some support to the corners. I have been using that drain sock to separate the media layers. I will probably do the same here. I could cut some more pieces and drill them but that is just taking up more area where I don't have a lot to spare.

Aaron

 

[OzIA]

By the way, I don't know why the image is upside down. It is right side up in my photo album. Not sure how that happened, Sorry.

 

[dingodan87]

I already have my circulating pump line run outside the filter for access to the valve. I can just add another valve with a tee between the two for the probe holder. Ill never have to reach inside the filter except to replace substrate or clean pump. Cool

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[OzIA]

Oh, that's right. I forgot you were plumbing the pump outside. What's the valve for?

 

[OzIA]

Sorry. I was thinking check valve. I remember that they limit the flow of the pump with a valve. I have just been using full flow.