Odontodactylus scyllarus problem

[Witchdoctor_h]

Hey all,

I'm a pretty new mantis owner and I'm a little concerned. Last night my O. scyllarus layed on her side and didn't move except her eyes and her swimmeretts (sp). I tested the water and found a trace of trate so I did a water change. She started to move around once in a while but overall continued to lay there and her raptoral appendages lay open. This morning, she is upright again, but she appears unable to close her appendages. She hobbled around the tank like she is on crutches and finally tore one off.

My questions are:
What happened?
Why can she not close her clubs?
Has anyone seen this before and is it normal?
Is she about to molt?

Thanks in advance.
Eric

 

[Pea-brain]

This is a bad sign. A trace amount of nitrates wouldn't do this, bu it is the frst sign there is something wrong. It will eventually tear off the other rapt too. Get your water tested for copper and check to make sure your no uing ANY airborn chemicals in the room. Also what size tank?

Dan

 

[Gonodactylus]

We don't completely understand the physiology underpinning this, but the permanent extension of the raptorial appendages is a bad sign. It usually occurs when the animal has experience stress - temperature, salinity, low oxygen, organic solvents, poisons, etc. The appendages rarely recover and if the animal survives, they are usually torn off.

Roy

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Thanks for the prompt replys. I'm really worried about her. It's a 29g. There is definately no copper in the water. Half of the water is out of my 225g reef and the other half I made fresh with RO water. I have three reefs and building a fourth plus the mantis tank, so I never use any chemicals around the tanks. Chemicals are my enemy.

 

[Gonodactylus]

How long have you had this animal? The stress could have occurred during shipping or through the use of chemicals for collection. Cyanide poisoning often does not show up for several days.

Roy

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

I've only had her for a few days and she has been fine until last night. My friend owns an lfs here in Albuquerque, and he held her for a month and a half before he'd let me have her to make sure she was alright. She was in one of his reefs at his store all by herself. She had been eating well and not showing any issues.

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Oh, and all of my parameters at at exactly what you recommend on your ID and care page.

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

I killed some aiptasia the other day with Blue Life Aiptasia Control. Is there any way that stuff might have hurt her?

Also, she just lost the other raptoral appendage. Am I going to lose her? We had her eating krill. Will that be enough or shall I suppliment with something else in the hopes that she'll pull through over the next few molts while she rebuilds the appendages?

Thank you again Dr. Roy

 

[Pea-brain]

You should be substituting with selcon at least weekly anyways (though not using it wouldn't cause this), but I'd use it now with every feeding. Both rapts should grow back over the next 4 molts if the mantis survives.

Dan

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

She's looking better now after losing the other rapt. She's digging again and looks normal (except for the missing rapts). Is krill and Selcon enough? Should I try to get her to take anything else?

She just carried the 2nd rapt to the front of the tank as if to say "See what you did?"

Do you think it was the aiptasia control? I only used it in a couple of places.

Eric

 

[Pea-brain]

I doubt it. You should be feeding at least 2-3 meaty frozens with hard shelled food at least once a month. Hard shelled foods help keep the rapts excercised and extra foods+selcon give needed nutrients and variety.

Dan

 

[ck1]

You should be feeding at least 2-3 meaty frozens with hard shelled food at least once a month.

not intending to hijack the thread- but I have a question about feeding hard shelled food-

My mantis shows no interest at all in the snails and hermits in the tank- I have at least 4 hermits and 4 snails in there. But my g. smithii did manage to catch the chromis that was in the tank today. I have read remarks from others that sometimes their mantis's don't prefer to hunt after being fed off of a stick- they would rather wait for the easy meal as opposed to having to "crack"open their own. I believe my g. smithii was in captivity and eating for at least a month before I got her- but at least minimum of 2 weeks according to Live Aquaria Diver's Den policy.
She was eating pellets (Micro Crabs by Tetra) the first day I got her- I was intending to feed the chromis- but she came out for any pellets that hit the substrate.

Is there anything I should do/ could do to encourage hunting the clean up crew? Will an emerald crab likely entice an active kill? I had considered buying one to see.

 

[Pea-brain]

Its hard to say what to do. An emerald would likely work. BUt if i does't you could trynot feeding for a while-up to3 weeks-and it should start hunting.

Dan

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Just an update. She seems ok so far. Even without her appendages. She finally took a piece of krill today and is just digging like crazy.

Is she about to molt do you think? Or is she just getting more comfortable?

 

[Gonodactylus]

I would be very suspicious that the Aptasia Control may havecaused this. I have lost way too many stomatopods to supposedly safe additives.

Roy

 

[helipilot]

So much for the Aptasia be gone stuff I just picked up. Thanks Dr. Roy!

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Ditto Dr. Roy, thanks. I won't use it again. But she seems ok for now. I'm not sure, but I think she might be about to molt. She has dug her burrow under a rock and doesn't come out much now.

Does that sound like molting behavior?

 

[Gonodactylus]

I really don't want to blame a product that I have not tested, but stomatopods are incredibly sensitive to some poisons and anything that can do harm to a Aptasia would seem to have the potential to mess with the metabolism of stomatopod rapts. I've written many times about the sensitivity of the raptorial appendage muscles to stress, solvents, temperature, salinity, etc. The fact that your animal lost both rapts and is now recovering suggests to me that it was poisioned. That it has improved is a very good sign. If you pour the food to it, the molts will accelerate and it should be good a new in six months. I've found that animals without their rapts are at first shy, but they need food and eventually many become very active approaching the surface when you go to feed them. It is a time that you can hand feed them, although I never recommend doing this and remember, in a few months when the rapts have regenerated, it won't be afraid of you. Good luck.

Roy

 

[Gonodactylus]

I just went to the Blue Live home page to try to find out what the active ingredients are in their Aiptasia Control formula. No luck. All they say is that it is veterinary approved and "will not harm any desirable aquarium animal. Perhaps they don't consider stomatopods desirable.

Anyway, I had another thought. The instructions say to turn off all pumps, etc. to the system. That means it is totally stagnent for some time. Depending on the time of day, whether the lights are on, the amount of live rock, etc., it is possible that oxygen levels could drop precipitously - perhaps enough to damage the rapts. Low oxygen titers can certainly cause raptorial appendage lost. I have even seen it on natural reefs and certainly in shipping or when a pump failed. Just a thought, but a lot of us forget how much oxygen is consumed by a reef tank at night.

Roy

 

[Witchdoctor_h]

Good call. I looked on Blue's site as well and couldn't find anything either. I came up with the same hypothosis that maybe stomatopods aren't considered "desirable".

Also, your theory about oxygen levels seems very possible. However, I'm not a very good instruction follower. I left the pumps on, (oops) but that seems totally feasable.

Eric