OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[bstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7271446#post7271446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Amber I know they are snail eggs because I had a marine biologist with me who spotted and identified everything for me.



I can't quite translate that. I realize that salinity changes but it is my assumption that as it changes so will the reading. Do you think I am misunderstanding what the reading is or how to react to it? If the conductivity is low, isn't it safe to assume that the salinity is low too?

BTW, I do use a refractometer to check salinity and verify the conductivity reading. Whenever I do a water change I test both volumes with a refractometer and adjust the incoming water accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, I think that using a refracotor meter is the best way to measure salinity. But, conductivity does not have a direct relationship with salinity. Its like pH does not have a direct relationship with alkalinity. Yes, as alkalinity goes up so does your pH, but it is not directly proportional. The same can be said for conductivity and salinity. The graph you have will be more accurate when you use it to measure the conductivity of freshly made salt water, but that may not be the same for the main tank water.

All conductivity is, is the measurement of dissolved solids, salt is one main contributor to conductivity. But so are all the other dissolved solids we add to our tanks. Like alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, and any other additive will increase conductivity. So, after time your tank will increase in conductivity with all the added dissolved solids while your salinity may not change. But, by doing water changes you will reduce the cycled up dissolved solids in our tanks. Again, I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on the correlation between salinity and conductivity. Sorry if I am being anal!!!

 

[jnarowe]

Well me too. He kept pulling out all different kinds of worms and telling me they would be good for the tank and I was not having any of that. I don't think I need to add any worms!

The bristle star I found was minute but I am stoked about finding more. I am going back on Sunday to dig up more stuff! And I will try to find a moon snail and take a pic for everyone.

 

[mrcrab]

A moon snail, is that a snail that likes to stick his behind up to the glass?

 

[jnarowe]

bstone not anal at all. I need that kind of input to better manage my system. And you bring up a good point regarding alkalinity and pH, as I have been dosing to raise alkalinity so maybe I am fighting against myself.

If conductivity doesn't have a direct relationship with salinity, which is easy to understand, then the chart provided by Neptune really could be innaccurate.

I fully understand that conductivity is sum of all DS but the problem I have is that mine is reading low. So I am dosing calcium and alkalinity but the reading is still low. When I use my refractometer I do get fairly close results, so regardless of its relationship with salinity, a low conductivity means a low salinity right? High conductivity might not mean high salinity but when it is low, isn't it gauranteed that the salinity is low?

mrcrab yeah well these things fold themselves outside their shell and are in a constant state of "Moon". :lol:

 

[bstone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7271663#post7271663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
bstone not anal at all. I need that kind of input to better manage my system. And you bring up a good point regarding alkalinity and pH, as I have been dosing to raise alkalinity so maybe I am fighting against myself.

If conductivity doesn't have a direct relationship with salinity, which is easy to understand, then the chart provided by Neptune really could be innaccurate.

I fully understand that conductivity is sum of all DS but the problem I have is that mine is reading low. So I am dosing calcium and alkalinity but the reading is still low. When I use my refractometer I do get fairly close results, so regardless of its relationship with salinity, a low conductivity means a low salinity right? High conductivity might not mean high salinity but when it is low, isn't it gauranteed that the salinity is low?

mrcrab yeah well these things fold themselves outside their shell and are in a constant state of "Moon". :lol:

You are correct by stating that if conductivity is low then most likely so is your salinity. In my tank I will not use conductivity as a means to measure anything, except my RO water. My main concerns are maeasuring exact salinity, Temp, pH, Alkalinty, and Calcium. With an occasional Magnesium. But that is about it. You might already be doing this but I measure alkalinity, Ca, and Mg with a titration test by Salifert. Alkalinity and Calcium are a very interesting combination, and can play havic on your tanks paramaters. For a new tank I wouldn't be to worried about pH, but just ensure that you have the alkalinity within the control range. Your pH will fluccuate alot and then stablize as you add buffers to your tank.
I use these control ranges for my tank. This was proved by Randy Homes: This is also a GREAT refference on paramters in your tank. If you haven't already, I would read this article!

LINK

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks for the link!

So since I have a water chem nut on the hook I'll post some data. I just did some tests:

9:35am

ph 8.42 (AC III)
temp. 76.4 (AC III)
ORP 438 (AC III)
Conductivity 47.9 (AC III)

Salinity 1.025 (refractometer)
dKH 13 (Aquarium Pharm)
pH 8.20 (Aquarium Pharm)
Ca 375 (Seachem)

I realize that my liquid tests are not top-line and I have some Salifert and Merk tests on order.

So I could conclude that an adjustment needs to be made to the AC III in how it measures conductivity since the reading is off by over .02 right? I know there is a way to configure it and I just need to research that. The AP pH test is not very accurate in that the scalehas a jump from 8.20 to 8.40 so I really cannot make any decisions based on that.

Phosphate, Nitrate, and ammonia all show 0 ppm using AP liquid tests. I guess before I can really get excited I need better tests, but I still see a relationship between the rise in pH and the health of my featherdusters, clams and scallops since all other things seem to have remained equal.

Comments??

 

[melev]

Jonathan, quit dosing any more Alkalinity raising products! You are at 13 dKH, and you only need 8 to 11 dKH. Calcium is a tad low, and I would bump that up to 450ppm. Next check Magnesium. It should be three times the calcium level, like 1125 based on the current level you just got results for.

Raising alk will raise pH, everytime.

I don't know anything about conductivity, and really just check salinity weekly with the refractometer. That has worked very well for me.

 

[jnarowe]

OK. I was only dosing baking soda to get the pH down and I am using Seachem Reef Complete and Kent Liquid Reactor in very small doses.

I don't have a magnesium test kit yet.

I appreciate the help!

So far I have tossed in 2 cups of vinegar an it has lowered the pH by .05...

 

[jnarowe]

Couple pics...

Chiton collected yesterday. I rolled the shell to take the picture and as I was shooting it the chiton moved around the bottom. Seems to have fared fairly well so far but it will not leave that shell.

SHot of clown & GBTA:

keep in mind that is a 5+" fish.

 

[jnarowe]

Dropped in 3 mithrax today. Hope the little buggers like bubble algae!

 

[jnarowe]

For those who haven't seen a moon snail before:

 

[Hop]

Your son looks as though he has seen this thing attack it's prey before, attaching to their mouths and subsequently hatching some time later, exploding from their hosts abdomen

 

[jnarowe]

LOL no kidding. he isn't feeling to well at the time either so I made him go to the beach and get some salt air.

Anyone have any experience with cleaner shrimp molting? All of mine molted at the same time. Is that what normally happens??

 

[tinygiants]

I need to get a mithrax for my tank. Where did you get yours?
Dale

PS the yellow eye is doing great. It is constantly kissing the glass.

 

[mrcrab]

Most all of my shrimp, 3 cleaners and 2 banded corals molt at the same time. Looks like a killing field with bodies strewn everywhere!:fun2:

 

[jnarowe]

Dale,

I got the Mithrax at Ocean Reef Aquatics. Yeah aren't those Koles cool! My blue eye has been showing itself more often. It is slowly getting less shy and man what a beauty.

mrcrab yeah it is a little disturbing to come down to the tank in the morning and see a bunch of molts. Maybe the shrim are like women??:lol:

 

[Hop]

You will have to excuse me while I go take cover for a few minutes... I sense some tension heading to this thread:fun5: :lmao: :fun5:

 

[melev]

That moon snail is wierd looking. Does it have any shell? Is it like a stomatella with just one section of shell over mostly slug? How long does it stretch out? Where's the head, and where's the tail?

Where did you find it specifically? On rocks, in the sand, in the water?

Very neat find. It looks rather heavy.

 

[jnarowe]

The ones that I found weigh between 5 & 10 lbs. and they do have a full sized shell but the snail grows so big that often they cannot fit back inside of it. If you look back one page you can see a pic I took of a chiton on a shell in my tank. That shell is of a young moon snail that died for some reason and you can se that it really looks like a regular snail shell and it's about the size of a softball. It is hard to find the head but if you look in the last picture near the center at about 7 o'clock you can see the tip of one of its antennae. It's got a bit of a stripe on it.

I have never seen one stretch out either. They are always at least partially buried in the sand and usually almost completely. Since there is a large number of egg casings (which I forgot to take a pic of ) on the beach this may just be a seasonal thing and they may go deeper in the water later on. Also, they are only found at low tides, not up on the dry part of these beach AFAIK.

Here's another picture:

Common name : Moon Snail
Scientific Name : Polinices lewisii
Location Found : Sunrise Beach, South Puget Sound
Actual Size : 9 inches

 

[jnarowe]

OK Marc, what's wrong with this picture?