Open letter to the LED industry

[zachts]

We dont have all that led chips already in stock, but I will try to get them and do more tests..
That Semi led chip - which bin exactly it is?

I'm afraid I don't know, purchased those from Steve's LED a while back they are different from what they are selling now. for whatever reason most of the vendors/resellers selling small quantities really like to keep the specifics to themselves.

 

[Pacific Sun RD]

Still Looking for your Charts on the Coral Plus !

There you go - still hot
Measured on a new fluorescent tube, 30 minutes after ignition.

and you can compare it to ATI Purple plus.

ATI Coral plus have more green and less orange in spectrum - and little different build spectrum in blue range.
Small peaks near 400nm and deep reed are the same.

 

[seamcintyre]

First of this is the best thread regarding leds I've read so thank you.

Secondly I apologize for momentarily hijacking.

I have 4 radion g2s over my 250g. I've been less than happy with the colors of the majority of my acropora. They're mostly brown. I've also been running them with close to 100% blue and royal blue and 75% white. Which is probably the cause of my problems.

I've changed my lights to the following.
100% RB
100% B
10% W
100% G
100% R

Overall intensity 65%

Now with my rudimentary understanding of lighting the RGB mix is making my tank look whiteish. It's definitely on the blue side of things but is by no means unpleasant.

Should I expect to see an increase in color?

I have an acropora that when I purchased it was very yellow but has since turned brown. Now that I have the green LEDs running should I expect to see some color return assuming that the excitation is Somewhere around 550nm?



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[penfold2]

The color combinations talked about here are for maximizing coral coloration, but even the blue/white combo you've been running is able to bring out some nice colors. If you're seeing mostly brown corals under blue/white leds, that's likely a water quality issue. I wouldn't expect your spectrum change alone to color up brown corals, but it may help once all other conditions are ideal.

Have you looked at nitrates/phosphates yet? Stable alk/ca, strong water movement, etc?

 

[seamcintyre]

Thanks for reply. I did not want to bring up much about water parameters in this thread since its about lighting however.
I have great water movement the tank has been up for seven months. Biweekly water change reef crystals. Ato ro/di automatic brs two part, no algae growth, eshopps s200 cone skimmer

Ph 8.0
Temp 79.0
SG 1.025
Po4 0.03~0.04
Nh3 /
N02 /
N03 0.5~
Alk 7.2
Cal 430
Mag 1350

The reason I bring this up here is I'm kind of art the point of thinKing my lighting is the biggest issue


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[penfold2]

That all looks ideal. I guess I'd just give it more time and keep an eye out for any other potential issues.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I have 4 radion g2s over my 250g. I've been less than happy with the colors of the majority of my acropora. They're mostly brown. I've also been running them with close to 100% blue and royal blue and 75% white. Which is probably the cause of my problems.

I've changed my lights to the following.
100% RB
100% B
10% W
100% G
100% R

Overall intensity 65%

Now with my rudimentary understanding of lighting the RGB mix is making my tank look whiteish. It's definitely on the blue side of things but is by no means unpleasant.

Should I expect to see an increase in color?

I have an acropora that when I purchased it was very yellow but has since turned brown. Now that I have the green LEDs running should I expect to see some color return assuming that the excitation is Somewhere around 550nm?

A) The white leds look white to you, but to your coral they are 30-40% blue, 20-30% red and a bit of other colors mixed in. That is adding a lot of red spectrum to your tank and inviting the zooxanthellae in the coral to increase and may be what was making the coral look more brown.

B) Even with your new settings, you have the red and green at 100%. Yes the red and green leds mix with the blue and it looks white to you and me, but the coral, zooxanthellae and algae still see Red, Green and Blue... NOT white! So I'd dial back the red and green to 50% and if you need a bit more white to get the look you want, I think it will be better than running the red and green at 100%. Just don't add anymore white than you need to, in order to get the color you want in the tank. More white increases the PAR, but it's an increase in PAR with colors your coral doesn't need much of to start with. If you need more PAR, add more blue first and then add just enough white to get to the look you want again.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

More white increases the PAR, but it's an increase in PAR with colors your coral doesn't need much of to start with. If you need more PAR, add more blue first and then add just enough white to get to the look you want again.

In my opinion, this is a very sound advice. Should we not be using the term PUR (Photosynthetically Usable Radiation) instead of PAR (Photosynthetically Available Radiation)?

I would like to ask a question with an apology for the diversion: For the best PUR, should I use ATI coral + or ATI aquablue special, or should mix them 1:1?

 

[Timfish]

BuildMyLED has a configuration that is 5700K and a CRI of 98 (they developed it for their architectural business).

I ahven't read all the posts in this thread yet so maybe this has been pointed out but what I see as a fundamental problem with using PAR, lux, CRI, color temperature and PUR is they are composite measurements and two light sources with different spectrums can have the same readings. Seems to me lux is just as good for determining relative intensity as PAR. What aquarists need is a cheap and easy to use meter that gives a spectral reading from UVA to far red.

Also considering fluorescing and chromo proteins are used for getting rid of excess light and a coral specimen will manipulate it's protein production to deal with changes in the lighting field and other environmental variables like temperature plus corals are found in turbid areas (Poccilopora damicornis is found in mangrove swamps) where the light field is very different than a reef crest the concept of an "ideal" lighting source is unrealistic. What I advise people who ask me is they need to match the coral and light to each other.

 

[Ron Reefman]

In my opinion, this is a very sound advice. Should we not be using the term PUR (Photosynthetically Usable Radiation) instead of PAR (Photosynthetically Available Radiation)?

I would like to ask a question with an apology for the diversion: For the best PUR, should I use ATI coral + or ATI aquablue special, or should mix them 1:1?

You are absolutely right about PUR vs PAR. The problem is, nobody makes a PUR meter and to make matters worse, PUR can be different for different species of coral. Even the same species can have different zooxanthellae and therefore have slightly different PUR requirements. So we are kind of stuck with PAR as far as measured light.

I can't help on the t5 question as I don't know the bulbs. But I think having a mix is almost always better. I recommend a mix of blue spectrum leds and even white leds when doing an led fixture. Different corals from different depths see different shades of blue. There is no one 'right' spectrum, especially for a mixed reef tank!

 

[penfold2]

A) The white leds look white to you, but to your coral they are 30-40% blue, 20-30% red and a bit of other colors mixed in. That is adding a lot of red spectrum to your tank and inviting the zooxanthellae in the coral to increase and may be what was making the coral look more brown.

Just like any other algae, zooxanthellae is best controlled through nutrient levels rather than light spectrum.

B) Yes the red and green leds mix with the blue and it looks white to you and me, but the coral, zooxanthellae and algae still see Red, Green and Blue... NOT white!

The whole point of this thread is that discrete RGB outputs may be preferable to white. I'm not saying it's a fact, but why are you dismissing it out of hand?

 

[Bruce Leroy]

There you go - still hot
Measured on a new fluorescent tube, 30 minutes after ignition.

and you can compare it to ATI Purple plus.

ATI Coral plus have more green and less orange in spectrum - and little different build spectrum in blue range.
Small peaks near 400nm and deep reed are the same.

Just saw this! Thanks so Much!

 

[Bruce Leroy]

Thanks for the Graph of the Coral Plus! Very Much Appreciated!
One of the Best SPS tanks i have seen, uses a 1.1 ratio of Coral Plus to Blue Plus, and he has Outstanding Color on his SPS!
I used to use the Purple plus but switched over to his bulb choice, and my colors have taken off as well.
Don't know why as they appear by your graphs to be really close the the Purple Plus!
Thanks again!!

 

[Ron Reefman]

Just like any other algae, zooxanthellae is best controlled through nutrient levels rather than light spectrum.

The whole point of this thread is that discrete RGB outputs may be preferable to white. I'm not saying it's a fact, but why are you dismissing it out of hand?

I'm not saying that spectrum control is the 'best' way to control zooxanthellae or algae growth. But if the OP has good water quality and proper nutrient levels, the lights can be a contributing factor. Honestly I think lighting is one of the least important factors with nuisance algae, but zooxanthellae may be a bit different. I honestly don't know.

I'm not dismissing RGB as an alternative, and it may be preferable to white leds. I'm saying if you are going to have a ratio of 1:1 or 2:1 blue to white, you don't need the red and green. I'm currently working on replacing leds in a spare fixture to try and achieve a good looking 14K overall color temp without using any white leds (similar to what Pacific Sun has done).

 

[Sparkpaul]

Finally I got to end (temporary). I read every post and it was very informative.

I live in Taipei and there are many coral shops here especially on one street called water street. There are more than 10 shops clustered right next to each other.

In the past year, there has been a huge push for LED fixtures; from generics to fancy controllable ecotechs. I'm know the owners well and many of them have asked to research online for the problems they are having with corals bleaching and browning with LEDs because they don't speak English and I am glad that I've come across this article.

Without reading every post, I'd be as lost as most of the reefers here in taipei. People get their leds and when they don't see growth or color, they turn up the intensity or buy a more powerful led fixture.

It's sad because so many corals and tanks have suffered. The reefers should be more informed but imho, the manufacturers should take some responsibility. Showing off colorful and can fancy lights with Christmas tree light controllable features thus mislead majority of the consumers.

Vannpytt is right. The product they produced wasn't tried and true and new gens are coming off the shelves from different manufactures every month.

I'm glad I wasn't a victim because after reading this post, I just bought replacement bulbs for my mh and t5s.

I will make sure I repost this thread in Taiwan's equivalent of reef central.

I want thank the op and pacific sun and many others who shared their knowledge with everyone.

Ps: I have a 200g tank with 65cm of depth, I have 250w hqi with 20000k radium, will I get better result with 400w?

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I think I might be joining this conversation in the coming weeks. I just ordered my Hyperion S 124w x 2 fixture from Pacific Sun. Imagine an Ocean said it would be about 3 weeks until I get it in the mail. :sad2:

I'm hoping that I don't run into browning issues with my coral like I see so many people talking about.

 

[ghostman]

Spyderturbo007-Congrats on getting one of the best LED fixtures around IMO. The Pacific Suns really do a great job. I had browning issues with my sols, and definitely with Radions, but no problems at all with my Pacific Sun lamps. They truly have been the easiest transition of all. Like many have stated above, I keep my white levels low. I do run the Bali program, but reduce the white level by about 20%. I love the colors, and my corals are doing well. Pacific Sun seems to be one of the only companies to be proactive in making the transition to LED more fluid and without compromising the animals we keep.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Spyderturbo007-Congrats on getting one of the best LED fixtures around IMO. The Pacific Suns really do a great job. I had browning issues with my sols, and definitely with Radions, but no problems at all with my Pacific Sun lamps. They truly have been the easiest transition of all. Like many have stated above, I keep my white levels low. I do run the Bali program, but reduce the white level by about 20%. I love the colors, and my corals are doing well. Pacific Sun seems to be one of the only companies to be proactive in making the transition to LED more fluid and without compromising the animals we keep.

That seemed to be the consensus regarding the fixtures, although there isn't a lot of information on the web about them and even in the forums. It was a chore to find anyone commenting on the Hyperion S. I found some information on the others, but not much on what I bought.

I went with them because, like you said, they seemed to have a different strategy than the other vendors. I also liked the 9 channel control and the huge array of different LEDs used.

I figured I would start them using the T5 acclimation program at something like 30% power and see how things react. I've just never been happy with my coral colors using my current T5 fixture. Things seem to get dull after a few months. I can bring home a gorgeous frag only to have it lose color and become bland with my lights.

Anyway, I'm hoping to have the time to start a thread when I get them and include timelines for coral color and growth. Most of my corals are small frags, so it will be a good test for the fixture.

Anyone want to donate a camera to my endeavor?

All I have is my iPhone which doesn't really like taking pictures of the tank.

 

[nynick]

I have yet to see a photo of an LED lit tank that does not look like you replaced the water with windex. They do not photograph well!

 

[advancebc29]

I have yet to see a photo of an LED lit tank that does not look like you replaced the water with windex. They do not photograph well!

need to look harder

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/137-tank-of-the-month

all about camera settings.