Orange Shoulder Tang getting very thin!

Lou Cifer

Member
Hello,
I've had my Orange Shoulder for about 4 months now, it's about 3-4 inches long,
but seems to be getting very thin and hasn't really grown at all since I got it.
It eats very well, but doesn't seem to fill out, I can see the outline of the bone running across it's body.
I've also noticed that it's poop comes out like sand or tiny pebbles.
Does this mean that it has internal parasites?
If so, any recommendations on treatment would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 
The excrement seems to be about right.

The loss of weight is a concern that points to usually one (or both) of two things:
1) Improper/deficient diet; or
2) Internal problems.

On the less common side of the equation are conditions like internal deformities/injuries, TB, and other peculiar afflictions.

IF (and this is an important IF) you can truly say you have been providing the right kinds of foods with supplements, then you can move on to consider an internal problem.

Are you doing what is suggested in this post:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228

Post everything you are feeding, frequency, and the use of supplements and trace elements. Then, regarding your aquarium system, post what kinds of filtration do you have running and in general:

How old is your tank? When did it originally cycle?
What kind of system do you have (tank volume, dimensions, bio-filtration method, the equipment you use, any carbon or other chemical filtration, kind of substrate, etc.).
List all specimens & sizes in the tank (fish, inverts, corals, clams, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.).
If you have a refugium and/or sump, what is living in it?
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Do you see any of the following in your system: hair algae; micro algae; cyanobacteria growths; dinoflagellate (zooxanthellae) growths; brown algae; diatom growth; slimes; colored patches on rock or substrate; etc.?
Water changes (how much and how often).
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 3 months.
Maintenance schedule.
 
Thanks Lee!

First of all, when you say, "The excrement seems to be about right.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ is that right, as in normal?

Okay, here we go.
My tank is 2 years old; it cycled in April of 2004. In the beginning it was fish only with deco rock and corals,
But I decided to convert to reef about 6 months ago.
My system volume is about 150 total gallons, including sump and a small refugium.
I only have about 120 lbs of live rock in the tank right now, but I'll be adding another 100lbs in the next couple of months.
There is another 10lbs of rubble rock in the return section of my sump, where the water goes through a filter sock that I swap every 7 days.
I have 2 Purigen sacks in the sock for maximum flow contact. Oh yeah, I also have a sock with Kent Nitrate sponge in the return.
Substrate is about 70lbs of live sand.
In the fuge I have a basketball sized clump of chaeto where pods seem to be thriving and some live sand.
For skimming, I'm using a Euro-Reef CS8-2-RC Skimmer, which works great.
I'm currently using VHO Lighting.

Feeding:
I alternate between frozen, Formula 1&2 and mysis shrimp, soaked in Selcon and Zoe on one day,
and green and brown seaweed selects and Super Veggie flake food on the other.

Water Parameters:
Nitrites- 0
Ammonia- 0
Ph- 8.2-8.4
Nitrates: 0-5

I add iodine and strontium as indicated on the instructions.
I dose kalkwasser every night, by drip method, for calcium maintenance and to replenish evaporated water.

Maintenance:
As I mentioned before, I swap filter socks every 7 days.
Clean out the skimmer cup every 5 days or so.
Wipe down tank walls every other day.
25% water change every 2 weeks.

Tank inhabitants:
1-Orange Shoulder tang, about 3.5 inches
1-Mimic Tang, about 4.5 inches
1-Midas Blenny
2-Small Ocellaris Clowns
1-Yellow tail blue damsel
3-Serpent Stars (and a bunch of tiny stars which I assume are babies that came with the live rock)
30 or so Hermit Crabs (more to come)
5-Super Tongan Nassarius Snails (more to come)
10 or so Turbo Snails (more to come)
1-Atlantic Cucumber (more to come)

I don't have any corals yet because I'm waiting to have a new canopy built for my MH and T5 lighting setup

In recent weeks purple spots have started to appear on the sand, which I assume is cyano.
I stir the sand around a bit, but it comes back within the hour. I've cut back on the amount of food to hopefully get rid of it.

I hope this is enough info.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
 
Your tangs are going to expect stable water. With rocks coming in the water will not be very stable for the fishes for sure. One wonders if it is stable now.

The red/purple you see is indicative of the instability of the system, possibly too much phosphate. Have you checked for organophosphates?

Another point of your system: There won't be much room for corals and the fishes after the next rock addition. That will be a total of about 230 lbs of live rock in a system of about 150 gallons. I assume your aquarium is in the neighborhood of about 135 gallons or less? plus 75 pounds of substrate. That isn't much room left for swimming and the tangs need a lot of swimming room.

Thus, in addition to stability issues, your tank isn't large enough for those tangs you currently keep. You'd need a tank starting with the standard dimensions of a 180 gallon aquarium, but if you want to keep both, you should consider a 240 gallon.

Both the above are stress issues on the fishes.

I'd suggest getting rid of the crabs. But. . .that's another story/issue. :D

The above issues can contribute to the fishes sense of well being which manifests itself in weight loss. However, to be conservative I'd perform a de-worming on the fishes.

There are three (3) basic possibilities when it comes to an intestinal problem. This reference outlines the three nicely:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/internalinfections.html

Sometimes an internally infected fish (bacteria or worms or parasites) will stop eating or slow its intake. But usually there are other signs, like loss of weight, ravenous eating but no weight gain, and/or strange excrement. Consider the possibilities by reading that article.

Whatever the internal problem, the fish needs the best water quality, best environment (larger tank with more swimming space) and the best diet AND supplements added to its diet.

I think your feedings are pretty good. I'd keep away from too much of the carnivore foods and find ways to increase their spirulina intake.

The drug Praziquantel (a.k.a. droncit) will treat intestinal worms, Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish will treat an internal bacterial infection and Metronidazole will treat dinoflagellate infections.

To be conservative: I recommend this two-step process:
Treat the fish for worms (using Praziquantel) first and if no weight gain in a few weeks, then transfer to a quarantine tank and treat for Dinoflagellates (using a med containing Metronidazole). But I am still unsure if your fish will fully recover, it being in the less-than-optimum environment and all.

Praziquantel is best administered orally and can be done while the fishes remain in your display tank.

Check this out for some guidance on the deworming:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=644238

By excrement 'about right' I meant it is about normal or what I would expect from a tang. Sorry for the choice of words.

Good luck! :rollface:
 
All the live rock that I've added and will add in the future, has been fully cured.
I have tested after every batch with no change in water parameters.

I haven't tested for phosphates, but I will do that a.s.a.p.

I guess I won't be adding as much rock as I thought, maybe another 50lbs or so.

As far as tank size, I hope to upgrade to a 250 gal.(min) in a year or two.

Why do you suggest getting rid of the crabs?

Thanks for all the info, you've been very helpful!
 
The pros and cons of hermit crabs are fairly well debated. But the consensus is that they should not be put into our reef aquariums.

Hermit crabs are 'opportunists.' Even the ones that are said to be herbivores will eat fish flesh if and when given the opportunity. Many will kill snails for food and their shells. They will even kill each other if they get hungry enough. They will also attack 'sleeping' fish. In short, they will eat almost anything they can get their claws onto. And yet, there are very peaceful snails that won't do these things and still keep the aquarium clean, some of which will reproduce in our aquariums.

However, there are plenty of threads about crabs if you want to search. Here are some other references:
See the section on Aquarium Maintenance in this:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rs/index.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20010410...ibrary/articleview2.asp?Section=&RecordNo=166

There are many threads on the virtues of using just snails. Snails are all I have used these past 15 years.
 
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