Outside Air-Protein Skimmer-pH

[griss]

For those of you who use outside air with your skimmer to increase PH, do you notice any skimmer performance degradation due to the length of airline tubing?

Since I, finally, hooked up my Apex pH module, I’m running 7.85ish at night and 8.05ish during the day. Currently have a fuge w/macros on reverse daylight.

Would like to try the outside air with my skimmer but would need to run the airline about 26 feet/~8m.

 

[wvned]

Run PVC pipe. It's cheaper anyway. Don't need to glue it, just friction fit. Don't like it, take it back.
I ran 3/4 but my skimmers are big.
SRO XP-8000i 16 inch diameter body. 36 inch LifeReef

 

[kharmaguru]

For those of you who use outside air with your skimmer to increase PH, do you notice any skimmer performance degradation due to the length of airline tubing?

Since I, finally, hooked up my Apex pH module, I’m running 7.85ish at night and 8.05ish during the day. Currently have a fuge w/macros on reverse daylight.

Would like to try the outside air with my skimmer but would need to run the airline about 26 feet/~8m.

Just use a larger diameter and there's nothing to worry about. My skimmer tube fits inside my outdoor tube.

 

[wvned]

Except soft vinyl with lower pressure will easily collapse in bends. The pressure outside the tube is higher and smashes it slowly over time.
Unless you get heavy wall vinyl and that's really expensive.
Another option is polyethylene tubing 25 feet 3/8 inch ID $12
I have been using a lot of that lately.

 

[griss]

Another option is polyethylene tubing 25 feet 3/8 inch ID $12
I have been using a lot of that lately.

Much cheaper at my Menards

Sioux Chief 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID x 25' Polyethylene Tubing

This non-toxic, FDA grade, polyethylene tubing is engineered for use with air and water lines in specific relation to pneumatic control lines.

www.menards.com

 

[kharmaguru]

You should probably call in a gas fitter just to be safe.

 

[wvned]

Menards is a bit of a trip for me. HD is 2 minutes away.

 

[griss]

You should probably call in a gas fitter just to be safe.

??????

 

[kharmaguru]

??????

Earth humor, ar! ar!.

 

[griss]

To test this, before running airline, I opened a window in the basement about 10 feet from the tank about 2 hours ago. I’ve hit my highest pH since adding the pH probe. I’m up to 8.09.

 

[darrick001]

Putting a stronger light on your refugium will have a bigger impact. Pulling air from outside will help add O2 but the light will add O2 while removing CO2 from the water. Your refugium light should be as strong or stronger than your display lights. You can hit maybe 8.05-8.075 with the outside air and 8.18-8.2 with the light. It's hard to get consistant higher readings while using a skimmer. Your skimmer will actually lower your ph after 8.2. I run skimmerless and have a ph of 8.3-8.4.

 

[kharmaguru]

Putting a stronger light on your refugium will have a bigger impact. Pulling air from outside will help add O2 but the light will add O2 while removing CO2 from the water. Your refugium light should be as strong or stronger than your display lights. You can hit maybe 8.05-8.075 with the outside air and 8.18-8.2 with the light. It's hard to get consistant higher readings while using a skimmer. Your skimmer will actually lower your ph after 8.2. I run skimmerless and have a ph of 8.3-8.4.

While I agree with everything you are saying, I think the idea of drawing ouside air is that it contains less CO2 than indoor air.

 

[wvned]

A strong light causes green stuff to grow and that uses CO2 lowering it in the water. Outside air makes the air around the tank or air injected by the skimmer have the same CO2 concentration as it is outside.

Why does that matter.
CO2 dissolved in water forms carbonic acid. The same stuff that causes ocean acidification. Some homes are very air tight and develop high CO2 levels inside. A skimmer pushing high CO2 air into the water will lower pH. A skimmer pushing lower CO2 air from outside into the water can raise it.

Oxygen has nothing to do with this process.

In chemistry, carbonic acid is an organic compound with the chemical formula H2CO3. The molecule rapidly converts to water and carbon dioxide in the presence of water. However, in the absence of water, it is (contrary to popular belief) quite stable at room temperature.[4][5] The interconversion of carbon dioxide and carbonic acid is related to the breathing cycle of animals and the acidification of natural waters.[3]

In biochemistry and physiology, the name "carbonic acid" is sometimes applied to aqueous solutions of carbon dioxide. These chemical species play an important role in the bicarbonate buffer system, used to maintain acid–base homeostasis.[6]

 

[darrick001]

While I agree with everything you are saying, I think the idea of drawing ouside air is that it contains less CO2 than indoor air.

I 100% agree. I have tried this method and it had the biggest impact when my house was sealed tight.
something to think about is the risk of contamination. If your in a location where the city sprays pesticides use a carbon filter to reduce that possibility. In the winter I ran tubing looped around a heating duct to heat the air to avoid cooling the aquarium. If your in a southern location it will cool the air to avoid heating your aquarium. use larger diameter tubing 3/4 or 1/2 inch to give more contact time.

 

[wvned]

Air has very little heat content compared to water so the temperature of it doesn't really matter. After traveling in a tube 20 feet from outside it is close to room temperature anyway when it gets to the skimmer.

 

[darrick001]

While that is true there are a lot of variables that can affect that. I was running an sro-8000. With a 5 or 10 foot run with 3/8 tubing. It had a very big impact on my temperature when it was zero degrees outside. Switching to 50 feet of 3/4 with the last 20 around a heating duct helped. Overkill probably.

 

[wvned]

While that is true there are a lot of variables that can affect that. I was running an sro-8000. With a 5 or 10 foot run with 3/8 tubing. It had a very big impact on my temperature when it was zero degrees outside. Switching to 50 feet of 3/4 with the last 20 around a heating duct helped. Overkill probably.

I am running an SRO-8000 and a 36 inch Lifereef skimmer now with outside air. I assure you it doesn't affect my system temp in any noticeable way summer or winter.

 

[griss]

I am running an SRO-8000 and a 36 inch Lifereef skimmer now with outside air. I assure you it doesn't affect my system temp in any noticeable way summer or winter.

Ned, I was curious about temp effects of this myself. What are the average highest temp and average lowest temp for a year in your area? Not doubting you, just wondering if geography could have an impact?

 

[wvned]

Average is probably 25 to 85
We see from -5 to 100 degrees a few days in a year.

A bigger skimmer draws more air but the system has more mass (water) in it. Also a big system like mine runs 1200 watts of heaters.
Any heat gained or lost from the skimmer air temp is unnoticable.

The reason is based in thermodynamics.
the volumetric heat capacity water has compared to air would be 784.31 x 4.23 = 3317.63
So a volume of air 3317 times bigger than a volume of water will have the same heat capacity.

 

[griss]

Average is probably 25 to 85
We see from -5 to 100 degrees a few days in a year.

A bigger skimmer draws more air but the system has more mass (water) in it. Also a big system like mine runs 1200 watts of heaters.
Any heat gained or lost from the skimmer air temp is unnoticable.

The reason is based in thermodynamics.
the volumetric heat capacity water has compared to air would be 784.31 x 4.23 = 3317.63
So a volume of air 3317 times bigger than a volume of water will have the same heat capacity.

Thanks, clear, concise explanation.