I don't disagree with that. I just think folks need to understand there are risks for larger amounts or possibly for the most susceptible organisms.
Ozone use
- Thread starter ayrton
- Start date
I don't disagree with that. I just think folks need to understand there are risks for larger amounts or possibly for the most susceptible organisms.
cherubfish pair
New member
I'm pretty sure you are getting bleach of Bromide in your tank but if it's not causing any problems then more power to ya.
jschultzbass
New member
I am running the Mutiny to a carbon filter but am still getting a lot of ozone smell. Do you have a picture of the setup you're talking about? How is your carbon set up that you're filtering the air with?
[welcome]
Welcome, jschultzbass.
Welcome, jschultzbass.
psteeleb
Team RC
When I first set up the Avast ozone and Avast carbon media reactors in series I got the burping and ozone smell. I traced it down to a leak between the sand pipe and top plate inside the carbon reactor. The joint is a friction fit so I added some teflon to it and both the burping and smell went away.
What was ahppening is the friction fit under pressure was allowing bleed through bypassing the downflow through the carbon filtration. Once sealed the pressure stayed constant eleminating the burping and the smell went away since the bypass was eliminated.
What was ahppening is the friction fit under pressure was allowing bleed through bypassing the downflow through the carbon filtration. Once sealed the pressure stayed constant eleminating the burping and the smell went away since the bypass was eliminated.
cherubfish pair
New member
Is anyone using the Red Sea Aquazone ozone generators with their ozone reactors? Will they hold up with ~5 psi of air pressure with a Luft Pump or similar air pump?
vamaro
New member
The burping I had was form the air injected into the reactors.
vamaro
New member
I attached a pic. Sorry of the long email. Here is what you need.
(1) 12 inch piece of 2 inch PVC pipe
(2) Tee's
(1) Plug with 1/2 inch thd
(1) Nipple for the vinyl tubing.
Note: This will look a lot like a Aqua UV when assembled. Water goes into the upper tee and exits below the sump water line. Air exits the top and is filtered by a bag of charcoal. This is an easy fix and it works perfectly. If my directions do not make sense, let me know and I will provide more pics.
Assembly:
1. Place the tee fitting on each end of the 2 inch PVC pipe.
2. Place the plug on the tee as seen in the pic (where the hose is connected)
3. Attached the nipple to the plug and connect the hose coming from your carbon reactor (as shown in pic).
4. If you look closely at the pic, you can see a bag of charcoal at the top. You will need to make something to hold the bag of charcoal. Optonal - I added a fitting on top of my tee (see photo) to hold the charcoal. I just used a small pices of plastic light cover from Home Depot. I cut a slightly oversize circle and forced into a fitting. Fits perfectly.
5. Place a small bag of charcoal into the top of the pipe. Make sure that you have enough charcoal to cover the entire inside diameter of the pipe.
6. Optional Bracket - I made a bracket to hold the assembly upright as seen in the photo.
Once assembled, stand the assembly up vertically in your sump with the hose coming from the reactors above the water line in your sump.
PIC - this pic shows the top of the assembled unit. The clear hose comes from the reactors. Water flows down into the sump. Air rises and meets the bag of charcoal where is can be slowly filtered.
Here is a pic of the reactors. Note: the water is running backwards through the charcoal reactor. This forces the water through the charcoal. I am running 4 cups of BRS charcoal in the reactor. Water exits the charcoal reactor, then goes into the PVC assembly shown in the first pic. Again, it seems complicated, but its simple and it works.
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vamaro
New member
I am running my Luft pump full throttle. Not sure what PSI is in the chamber.
Garfield90
New member
Hi guys,
I´m just planning now my future tank, it will be about 850 gallon build+200 filtration, so +1000 gallons. The dimensions are 89x47x47 (225x120x120 cm)
My desire is to maintain the water very close to reef water, in terms of parameters, nutrients and clarity.
I´m going to run a Bubble King 650 External (I think the bigger, the better) and a TMC O2 ozone system (I live in Spain).
The fish wish list is a few tangs (just for biological purposes) and a huge school of anthias (about 50-60), not a huge load of waste for the system...
Do you think the action of this skimmer and the ozone combined will be too much in terms of exporting nutrients?
Thank you for your advice!
I´m just planning now my future tank, it will be about 850 gallon build+200 filtration, so +1000 gallons. The dimensions are 89x47x47 (225x120x120 cm)
My desire is to maintain the water very close to reef water, in terms of parameters, nutrients and clarity.
I´m going to run a Bubble King 650 External (I think the bigger, the better) and a TMC O2 ozone system (I live in Spain).
The fish wish list is a few tangs (just for biological purposes) and a huge school of anthias (about 50-60), not a huge load of waste for the system...
Do you think the action of this skimmer and the ozone combined will be too much in terms of exporting nutrients?
Thank you for your advice!
Haven't read many books/threads on folks wishing they could dial back their nutrient export process outside of soft coral tanks.
I'm thinking about getting on the ozone bandwagon. See so many commerical applications of ozone deployed.
Ozone doesn't usefully export nutrients, so I'm not sure what you are implying. Folks do not typically see a nutrient drop on instituting ozone.
Ozone is very good at keeping the water totally devoid of yellowness, and possibly reducing organic particulates. Beyond that, there is little benefit in most situations.
Ozone - Strategy
Ozone - Strategy
Before you consider using Ozone in a reef, you should be sure of the Strategy you intend to employ.
Ozone can be used for 2 primary reasons...
1) To act as a steriliser for Bacteria/Virus etc
2) To act as a "protein breaker" to assist the skimmer removing same and thus increasing water clarity by removal of "gelbstoffe" (yellow stuff).
If you choose Strategy 1) above you need to very carefully set up Ozone injection, filtration and neutralisation because you will need high dose and you cannot take the risk of free Ozone getting back into your Tank water.
You will need to pass the skimmer effluent through a lot of quality GAC and also the discharged air must do the same. Ozone is VERY toxic both to your tank inhabitants and YOU. You must carefully and constantly monitor to ensure any free Ozone is under control.
If, however, you use Strategy 2) then the issues get a lot less critical because you can use a very low dose Ozone. Because this low dose is working 24/7, the effect is slow but steady and not toxic. your ozone generator should be set real low, the air velocity pushing it through the system must also be low. It is still a good idea to push the skimmer effluent through GAC.
I have used low dose Ozone for many years, I am happy with the result, but I think the risks are too great to use high dose, and the rewards are minimum.
Just my 2 cents worth
Ozone - Strategy
Before you consider using Ozone in a reef, you should be sure of the Strategy you intend to employ.
Ozone can be used for 2 primary reasons...
1) To act as a steriliser for Bacteria/Virus etc
2) To act as a "protein breaker" to assist the skimmer removing same and thus increasing water clarity by removal of "gelbstoffe" (yellow stuff).
If you choose Strategy 1) above you need to very carefully set up Ozone injection, filtration and neutralisation because you will need high dose and you cannot take the risk of free Ozone getting back into your Tank water.
You will need to pass the skimmer effluent through a lot of quality GAC and also the discharged air must do the same. Ozone is VERY toxic both to your tank inhabitants and YOU. You must carefully and constantly monitor to ensure any free Ozone is under control.
If, however, you use Strategy 2) then the issues get a lot less critical because you can use a very low dose Ozone. Because this low dose is working 24/7, the effect is slow but steady and not toxic. your ozone generator should be set real low, the air velocity pushing it through the system must also be low. It is still a good idea to push the skimmer effluent through GAC.
I have used low dose Ozone for many years, I am happy with the result, but I think the risks are too great to use high dose, and the rewards are minimum.
Just my 2 cents worth
Garfield90
New member
Randy,
Doesn´t ozone helps the skimmer to break protein particles and do its job more efficient?
I think (probably I´m wrong) but ozone helps ORP raise, so everything in the aquarium oxidizes faster, and the skimmer will receive a push in exporting nutrients (at first 1-2 weeks, I suppose) and the particles will disappear. After the particles in the water have been properly exported from the tank, the skimmer activity will obviously go down (in comparison with the first week with ozone), unless you add more biological load to the system.
Excuse me if I´m wrong, that´s what my brain got while reading about ozone
Doesn´t ozone helps the skimmer to break protein particles and do its job more efficient?
I think (probably I´m wrong) but ozone helps ORP raise, so everything in the aquarium oxidizes faster, and the skimmer will receive a push in exporting nutrients (at first 1-2 weeks, I suppose) and the particles will disappear. After the particles in the water have been properly exported from the tank, the skimmer activity will obviously go down (in comparison with the first week with ozone), unless you add more biological load to the system.
Excuse me if I´m wrong, that´s what my brain got while reading about ozone
I've not seen evidence that it helps skimming (despite many such claims), and many people report it to worsen skimming.
I discuss it here:
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 1: Chemistry and Biochemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php
from the first one:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#11
Oxidation of Organics by Ozone: Skimming and Nutrients
Another result of breaking some organics into smaller, more hydrophilic bits (Figure 3 and 4) is that it often increases their bacterial biodegradability.27-29 Therefore, the ozone may need only to start the degradation process, and bacteria in the aquarium can finish off the organics by uptake and metabolism. Large humic acid molecules, for example, are converted by ozonation into smaller fragments that are more readily taken up and metabolized.29 This process may, in fact, be why some aquarists report drops in nutrient levels after initiating ozone. It is not because ozone directly impacts either nitrate or phosphate (it does not react directly with either), but the newly bioavailable organics may drive bacterial growth, just as adding ethanol (e.g., vodka) or sugar might. The growing bacteria need nitrogen and phosphate, and if they satisfy those needs by taking up nitrate and phosphate, the levels of those nutrients in the water may drop. That effect, however, may be only temporary as the initial burst of new bioavailable organics winds down, and a new stable state is reached with lower levels of organic material and similar levels of inorganic nutrients.
Skimming is a complex process that has many subtleties. The previous sections have discussed how ozonation modifies organic molecules , and we can then extrapolate how those processes impact skimming. Years ago it was widely claimed that ozone use increased skimming, and I claimed then that I didn't see how that could happen directly. Most organic compounds likely to be found in significant quantities in a reef aquarium will become more polar and likely less skimmable after it reacts with ozone. Figure 3, for example, shows how oleic acid (readily skimmed) gets converted into more polar compounds that will not be so readily skimmed as they will not be as strongly attracted to an air water interface.
A small portion of organic molecules in reef aquarium water may become more skimmable if, for example, they become more hydrophobic after reaction with ozone. They may also become more skimmable if they were totally hydrophobic before ozone and were transformed into molecules with polar and nonpolar parts (called amphiphilic) which more readily absorb onto an air water interface and are skimmed out.
Are there other ways that skimming might be increased besides these two processes? I hypothesized in a previous article that it was due to the growth of bacteria (either in the water itself, or bound to surfaces), and possibly also the release of new organic molecules as they grew, that caused the effects some aquarists observed.
It seems as if the tide of opinion has turned, however, and most aquarists now claim that the amount of skimmate is reduced significantly when using ozone. Many claim that the collection of skimmate has nearly stopped in their aquaria when starting ozone. Why the difference compared to past opinion? That's hard to say, and may depend on the types and qualities of the skimmers available now compared to years ago, as well as changes in other husbandry practices. In any case, the overriding experience of many aquarists today is that skimming is reduced, and the presumed reason is that the organics are being made chemically less skimmable by ozone. The remaining organics would then be removed more by bacterial processes than before the initiation of ozone in the same aquarium.
I discuss it here:
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 1: Chemistry and Biochemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php
Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php
from the first one:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#11
Oxidation of Organics by Ozone: Skimming and Nutrients
Another result of breaking some organics into smaller, more hydrophilic bits (Figure 3 and 4) is that it often increases their bacterial biodegradability.27-29 Therefore, the ozone may need only to start the degradation process, and bacteria in the aquarium can finish off the organics by uptake and metabolism. Large humic acid molecules, for example, are converted by ozonation into smaller fragments that are more readily taken up and metabolized.29 This process may, in fact, be why some aquarists report drops in nutrient levels after initiating ozone. It is not because ozone directly impacts either nitrate or phosphate (it does not react directly with either), but the newly bioavailable organics may drive bacterial growth, just as adding ethanol (e.g., vodka) or sugar might. The growing bacteria need nitrogen and phosphate, and if they satisfy those needs by taking up nitrate and phosphate, the levels of those nutrients in the water may drop. That effect, however, may be only temporary as the initial burst of new bioavailable organics winds down, and a new stable state is reached with lower levels of organic material and similar levels of inorganic nutrients.
Skimming is a complex process that has many subtleties. The previous sections have discussed how ozonation modifies organic molecules , and we can then extrapolate how those processes impact skimming. Years ago it was widely claimed that ozone use increased skimming, and I claimed then that I didn't see how that could happen directly. Most organic compounds likely to be found in significant quantities in a reef aquarium will become more polar and likely less skimmable after it reacts with ozone. Figure 3, for example, shows how oleic acid (readily skimmed) gets converted into more polar compounds that will not be so readily skimmed as they will not be as strongly attracted to an air water interface.
A small portion of organic molecules in reef aquarium water may become more skimmable if, for example, they become more hydrophobic after reaction with ozone. They may also become more skimmable if they were totally hydrophobic before ozone and were transformed into molecules with polar and nonpolar parts (called amphiphilic) which more readily absorb onto an air water interface and are skimmed out.
Are there other ways that skimming might be increased besides these two processes? I hypothesized in a previous article that it was due to the growth of bacteria (either in the water itself, or bound to surfaces), and possibly also the release of new organic molecules as they grew, that caused the effects some aquarists observed.
It seems as if the tide of opinion has turned, however, and most aquarists now claim that the amount of skimmate is reduced significantly when using ozone. Many claim that the collection of skimmate has nearly stopped in their aquaria when starting ozone. Why the difference compared to past opinion? That's hard to say, and may depend on the types and qualities of the skimmers available now compared to years ago, as well as changes in other husbandry practices. In any case, the overriding experience of many aquarists today is that skimming is reduced, and the presumed reason is that the organics are being made chemically less skimmable by ozone. The remaining organics would then be removed more by bacterial processes than before the initiation of ozone in the same aquarium.
cherubfish pair
New member
I was asking about the Aquazone not the Luft. BTW, do you have an Aquazone?
jrpark22000
New member
I purchased my stainless low pressure 0-15psi gauge on FleaBay. For flow, I found a balance which achieved the best results with the least O3 input only after some long term tuning. A slow starting rate of 400gph or less will probably be most efficient.
Orochimaru
1 of 3 legendary ninjas
for those who uses ozone, do you feel your tank seems a little sterile? I don't see any more pods or seems to be less in mine like I used to before I start using ozone.
