people who go with "almost" no Water Changes needed!

[karimwassef]

I'm curious about the $ aspect. Trace elements can be expensive.

The cost of salt today is very low. I don't see much of an advantage in not doing WCs due to cost. In fact, it seems cheaper than adding elements.

I also don't know how to export potentially harmful chemicals and biproducts that make their way into a tank over time (not N or P).

 

[reefmama1220]

tho my current tank isnt much of a contender to the 150 your talking about op, i only do a 10g wc on it maybe 1x a month now. params are always on point. coral only for the most part. 2 cardinals.

 

[karimwassef]

I have a 700 gal system and do 100 gal water changes every couple of weeks.

 

[glennf]

I'm curious about the $ aspect. Trace elements can be expensive.

The cost of salt today is very low. I don't see much of an advantage in not doing WCs due to cost. In fact, it seems cheaper than adding elements.

I also don't know how to export potentially harmful chemicals and biproducts that make their way into a tank over time (not N or P).

It's all about product sourcing and availability.
When product availability is scarce, prices skyrocket. Besides that, the further down the sales chain everything (especially minerals) become more expensive.

I have 1500 liters now
Consumption alk is 4,5dkh a day...
Try calculating what kind of wc regime this will require...
In holland one bucket rich quality salt cost about 69 euro for 600 liters

With no wc the average 500liter aquarium cost about 150-250 euro per year for mineral and nutrients control.
Do the math yourself...


My tank has proven more about the way of working and the potential "harmfull" buildup.
After 11,5y no wc shedule it should have been a toxic soup according to most.
Many reefers in holland are doing just fine now with no wc.

Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[glennf]

I have learned a lot from Glenn's info on the "Dutch synthetic reefing" site. It's easy to find on google and if someone wants to go waterchangeless it is a very good place to start learning how; its also just good reading to understand our tanks - there's a ton of wisdom in there.

THE INTENTION WAS TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, THAT THERE ARE MORE WAYS THAN WHAT PEOPLE ARE USED TO.
MAINSTREAM IS FINE FOR MOST, BUT SOME PEOPLE NEED MORE, THAN JUST JOINING THE HURDLE.. I AM ONE OF THOSE...

But it is something you really have to figure out for yourself, in my opinion. This method is not like the zeovit or triton style where you pay for several mysterious potions and if it didn't work it is because you should have bought one more magic bottle. Precision testing is required, as well as the chemistry knowledge to figure out which fertilizer from the hardware store will be safe and raise the particular trace element you need.

I ONLY APPLY TRANSPARANT PRODUCTS, SO I KNOW WHAT WILL, OR WIL NOT BUILDUP IN MY TANK.

It's cool stuff though. Like if people are willing to put in the time to track down his site and learn about the various components they are hugely rewarded. The payoff is a remarkably affordable system with significantly reduced impact on strained water systems. But it's not an easy fix or something you can just go out and buy.

I MADE EASY ACCES AVAILABLE ONLY IN HOLLAND...

Personally, my favorite part is the money. I don't like how bourgeois some reefers can be. They act snobbish like if you can't afford an expensive controller this isn't the hobby for you. Glenns tank is a good example of what's possible by educating yourself instead of taking expensive shortcuts (livestock might be a different story, but I imagine that he pays for a lot of stuff just with frag selling if he needs too) and the info is free for anybody that is willing to go after it. That's so cool.

YOU DON'T NEED TONS OF MONEY TO BECOME A SUCCESFUL REEFER..
JUST COMMON SENSE, SOME DIY AND THE WILL TO SUCCEED.

I have learned a lot from Glenn's info on the "Dutch synthetic reefing" site. It's easy to find on google and if someone wants to go waterchangeless it is a very good place to start learning how; its also just good reading to understand our tanks - there's a ton of wisdom in there.

But it is something you really have to figure out for yourself, in my opinion. This method is not like the zeovit or triton style where you pay for several mysterious potions and if it didn't work it is because you should have bought one more magic bottle. Precision testing is required, as well as the chemistry knowledge to figure out which fertilizer from the hardware store will be safe and raise the particular trace element you need.

It's cool stuff though. Like if people are willing to put in the time to track down his site and learn about the various components they are hugely rewarded. The payoff is a remarkably affordable system with significantly reduced impact on strained water systems. But it's not an easy fix or something you can just go out and buy.

Personally, my favorite part is the money. I don't like how bourgeois some reefers can be. They act snobbish like if you can't afford an expensive controller this isn't the hobby for you. Glenns tank is a good example of what's possible by educating yourself instead of taking expensive shortcuts (livestock might be a different story, but I imagine that he pays for a lot of stuff just with frag selling if he needs too) and the info is free for anybody that is willing to go after it. That's so cool.

Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[karimwassef]

It's all about product sourcing and availability.
When product availability is scarce, prices skyrocket. Besides that, the further down the sales chain everything (especially minerals) become more expensive.

I have 1500 liters now
Consumption alk is 4,5dkh a day...
Try calculating what kind of wc regime this will require...
In holland one bucket rich quality salt cost about 69 euro for 600 liters

With no wc the average 500liter aquarium cost about 150-250 euro per year for mineral and nutrients control.
Do the math yourself...


My tank has proven more about the way of working and the potential "harmfull" buildup.
After 11,5y no wc shedule it should have been a toxic soup according to most.
Many reefers in holland are doing just fine now with no wc.

Happy Reefing, GlennF.

Calcium and Alk are the two that I do dose... everything else is cheaper with WC. I keep supplemental Mg and I in case I just need a tweak.

 

[dreadnaught92]

What do you guys all suggest for a 12 gallon nano. I tired getting away with less water changes using a protien skimmer. I keep finding it necessary to do water changes though, otherwise my water looks like ****, and my nitrates sky rocket.

 

[glennf]

Calcium and Alk are the two that I do dose... everything else is cheaper with WC. I keep supplemental Mg and I in case I just need a tweak.

I take it one step further and find it cheaper, more of a challenge and less work, but that is personal and maybe a regional thing.

I believe there is a lot more to be learned about reefing dynamics by taking control, far more than just plain wc..Which i find no challenge doing ar all.
It's like doing a blood transfusion when it's not really neccessary.






Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[karimwassef]

So what supplement sources do you use? Even Mg is terribly expensive if you buy the premade liquid solution.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mar...pplements-Kent_Marine-KM3471-FIADMILS-vi.html

Do you make it with Mg Sulfate (Epson Salt)?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004N7DQHA/

Do you buy the Mg Chloride?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-bulk-magnesium-chloride-aquarium-supplement.html

I would love to find a way to reduce my operating costs - at 700 gal, everything is expensive.

 

[glennf]

Premade liquids are fine for small/nano tanks (50-100l) tanks, of course things will become expensive whe you apy that on large tanks.. you need to use the raw materials.

Epson salt will raise your sulphate also. Beware where you get them because There may be unwanted additive or pollutions.

MgCl granulate seems fine and I reckon rbs warranty the quality for reef application.

700gallon is a pretty big splash with wc's


Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[glennf]

What do you guys all suggest for a 12 gallon nano. I tired getting away with less water changes using a protien skimmer. I keep finding it necessary to do water changes though, otherwise my water looks like ****, and my nitrates sky rocket.

A no brainer .... keep on doing wc....
It's Much easier with that volume.
Unless you are planning to upgrade and want to learn more about reefing dynamics. Than you should consider that as a "learning" tank.


Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[karimwassef]

I have a 100 gal aux sump that use for a semi-automated water change. It's basically opening and closing valves.

So where do you source your MgCl?

 

[glennf]

I have a 100 gal aux sump that use for a semi-automated water change. It's basically opening and closing valves.

So where do you source your MgCl?

Straight from the source...
I get all my chemical straight from distribution/manufacturers.
You only have acces to them when you are willing to buy large quantities.

For common consumers you need to find regional suppliers with acces to pure quality salts.


Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[glennf]

I have a 100 gal aux sump that use for a semi-automated water change. It's basically opening and closing valves.

Easy enough if you have the space for it.

In europe we don't have that luxury...
We need the space for other purpose.
Beside that the setup becomes more complicated and expensive.

This is my whole setup...

Plain and simple empty sump and a few jerrycans and dosing unit.

Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[karimwassef]

Nice. I would use large quantities given the size of my setup so buying chemicals in bulk is ok. I now buy 2 x 5gal bucket of kalkwasser every year.

 

[plecoco]

I don't know how people can do it, I feel like I'm compulsive.

 

[glennf]

Nice. I would use large quantities given the size of my setup so buying chemicals in bulk is ok. I now buy 2 x 5gal bucket of kalkwasser every year.

Is kalkwasser sufficient to keep up your alk and calcium?

What is your alk / calcium consumption per day ?


Mine alk/calcium consumption is 4,5dkh/ 24ppm per day.
My evaporation is 10-15 liters per day at a volume of 1425 liters.
Kalkwasser can't keep up the pace
Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[glennf]

I don't know how people can do it, I feel like I'm compulsive.

Me too.. so i don't...
On the other hand, people seems to think i am a compulsive tester.


Happy Reefing, GlennF.

 

[Paul B]

That tank looks perfect to me with no water changes. I love it when people say it can't be done. :lmao:

 

[karimwassef]

Is kalkwasser sufficient to keep up your alk and calcium?

What is your alk / calcium consumption per day ?


Mine alk/calcium consumption is 4,5dkh/ 24ppm per day.
My evaporation is 10-15 liters per day at a volume of 1425 liters.
Kalkwasser can't keep up the pace
Happy Reefing, GlennF.

My DT is the same as your volume ~ 380gal but I have a large system with a surge (100), sump (180), secondary sump (100), and aux tank (50). Given that they're reciprocating (levels alternate in them), the total is ~700gal = 2650liters.

So I have a lot more volume to absorb the kalk but my
pH pushes at 8.4

I have to limit it to avoid going over. My current Ca/Alk is 500ppm/7.5dKH

My Alk consumption is 4dKH per day and rising so I am likely to have to switch to two part (or balling) or add vinegar to my Kalk mix.

I use ultra-aggressive aeration (insane DIY skimmer 12' tall with Dual injection pressure penductors) to reduce my pH using gas exchange, otherwise, my pH would blow over 9!! This skimmer injects about a gallon of fresh air per minute into a thick froth. I discovered this solution when I was curing my concrete rockscape and this skimmer brought the freshwater water pH from 10 to 8! It's an excellent stabilizing factor. I have a problem because I turn off my skimmer at night. So I need to use my Apex to turn off my doser if the kalk goes over 8.4. I make up for it during the day though.

My evaporation is only about 20gal/day so my salinity slowly does drift downwards due to excess water, so I use my regular water changes to compensate.