pico reef pest algae problem challenge
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
pics from day 1 (moments after h202 applied) and day 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/g23ulmphk5a86ku/2013-06-24 20.56.07.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e76jp1l0msst6wq/2013-06-24 20.56.13.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sozslw8g5k12s7b/2013-06-24 20.56.23.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6aas6btde6ueu0c/2013-06-25 17.42.27.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bplgb3zvr0t8wkr/2013-06-25 17.42.33.jpg
day 2 has attracted 3 snails on this piece....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e76jp1l0msst6wq/2013-06-24 20.56.13.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sozslw8g5k12s7b/2013-06-24 20.56.23.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6aas6btde6ueu0c/2013-06-25 17.42.27.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bplgb3zvr0t8wkr/2013-06-25 17.42.33.jpg
day 2 has attracted 3 snails on this piece....
martinserrano
New member
Cyano Bacteria/ Red Slime Monster
Cyano Bacteria/ Red Slime Monster
Just moved my system to a new house and after two weeks boom! cyano monster attacks. I thought it was diatoms at first but now slime covered sand bed. I cut back lights to 5 hrs a day and increased flow over sand bed which helped disperse the cyano. Ive been running a seaclone skimmer non stop and have had GFO in the canister since day one. Here is my beginning pic as the battle begins with cyano!
Cyano Bacteria/ Red Slime Monster
Just moved my system to a new house and after two weeks boom! cyano monster attacks. I thought it was diatoms at first but now slime covered sand bed. I cut back lights to 5 hrs a day and increased flow over sand bed which helped disperse the cyano. Ive been running a seaclone skimmer non stop and have had GFO in the canister since day one. Here is my beginning pic as the battle begins with cyano!
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oscar Reefer
New member
just an update on my situation,
I have removed all the rocks and sprayed them with 3% H2O2, rinsed and placed back in,,,
Also drained all the tank, Wiped down all the glass with damp 3% H2O2 solution, all the corners and all the panels.
Also sprayed all the sand bed since it had a lot of patches of Bryopsis on it, sprayed the entire sand bed with 3% H2O2, then left for a bout 10 minutes,,, then filled the tank up again.
Will turn the lights off for the next 2 days ,,, and hopefully it should be all gone by then.
will post before and after pictures shortly,
Cheers
I have removed all the rocks and sprayed them with 3% H2O2, rinsed and placed back in,,,
Also drained all the tank, Wiped down all the glass with damp 3% H2O2 solution, all the corners and all the panels.
Also sprayed all the sand bed since it had a lot of patches of Bryopsis on it, sprayed the entire sand bed with 3% H2O2, then left for a bout 10 minutes,,, then filled the tank up again.
Will turn the lights off for the next 2 days ,,, and hopefully it should be all gone by then.
will post before and after pictures shortly,
Cheers
i made a post on the sps forum, as my tank was mostly sps. So pictures can be seen here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2308018&highlight=hydrogen+peroxide
my system has sps, lps, and a few fish. No invertables. Is it possbile to threat the tank directly with out risking to much? its not possible to take everything out, becaus the whole system is infected.
also how much peroxide does the solution has to contain? i can aparently find a 3% solution only.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2308018&highlight=hydrogen+peroxide
my system has sps, lps, and a few fish. No invertables. Is it possbile to threat the tank directly with out risking to much? its not possible to take everything out, becaus the whole system is infected.
also how much peroxide does the solution has to contain? i can aparently find a 3% solution only.
Chris Abbott
New member
I believe 3% is the standard pharmacy issue and did the job for me. I would use that since it is the most common and very likely to be what most people are referenceing when they talk about the dose they used.
brandon429
Active member
ok that one is great for this thread, we love the tough tanks. Since its not packed wall to wall with live rock you really do have a chance to beat this w peroxide. 3% is right. you can dose the tank but thats not the best way.
do the most work intensive way first, because it works better. Can't take out rocks? drain the tank down 90% and hold the water, spray the peroxide on the affected areas while they are above water. wait ten mins, refill tank. then do as close to a 50% water change as you can muster, replacing the take out water with fresh made up sw
the rest of the peroxide will dissipate. this is the right way to help your tank, dont opt for the easy way first what you want is results.
Tnx for your reply.
If you were to dose the whole tank, how would the dose be? and what are peoples results?
I can take up some of the rocks, but not all of it. Moste of the corals are fixed on the rocks, so they cant be removed. But its possible, but i wont be able to get it all, becuas some of the algea is within the corals. That´s why i was interesting in the solution to dose the entire system. If i were to threath the rocks, they woudl almost have to be submerged in it. Becuas the algea is everywhere. What would be steps be in threathing the rocks when they are out? now much should there be used? are we talking drops on some of the areas? Do i wash the rock again?
another challenge is, that my rockwork mostly consists of big atoll reef ceramik, that is made from dry and cleaned live rock. But they are kind of big, and with corals sticking out every where, its gonna be hard to do it proberly. at least that is my fear.
I wont be able to take all the water out and in again. We just had a water damage on the floor, and got it replaced. So doing anything like that, would have to be abseluty last resort, as the risk is a divorce, if anything were to happen to the floor again, so i would rater not go there now
brandon429
Active member
ok we can do some in tank work then I just like to offer what gets the fastest outcome first. the in tanks are by far the largest percentage of treatments on this thread, heres another.
I didnt see cleaner shrimp, they and anemones might die. not sps, Ive never seen any that will die in the way we are about to treat and your tank will be another testament. promise you'll do follow up pics along the way!! back a few pages ago we had some -really- nice pre treatment pics that kinda left us hanging.
heres the right way for your setup
find something to inject with, like a diabetics syrings from a pharmacy. convince them you arent a meth head
take this in spots, not all at once. at no time do you just pour the peroxide in the tank even though that does work. since we are doing in tank work, full, there is still an amplification technique we should do. the underwater spot injections from previous pages, try to read it all if you get a chance tonite just to get any extra ideas like the saran wrap version etc.
basically all we are doing is turning off pumps, letting water still so the peroxide will stay as long as possible (brief seconds) around the target before dissipating into the water
so you would remove and externally treat what you can without hand removing the algae. this is to gauge the grow back and the expected time frames for kill for the underwater treated areas. remove, apply and rinse and put rocks back in and lets see through pics what the dying algae looks like and how long it takes to fall off. we use that to work our underwater option on the rest of the tank, with the expected timelines known
for the parts you cant remove, take a few mil's of peroxide, cc's if using a syringe, and while pumps are off and things are still, start injecting around the base growth areas of a certain rock. inject very very slowly, as it leaves the needle the peroxide is in high concentration in the water around your algea tufts, this is killing it. the rest of the peroxide just drifts off into the tank.
there isnt a certain dosage, sps are tough to it, but you will always use just a few cc's per day in a few areas, watch to see how those sps do in the next two days before moving on and injecting.
at least up your normal water changes during this run, something will have to be done above normal to make up for allowing this much of a tankwide infestation but agreed we can work without a full drain. peroxide is caustic but not lethal in your setup, so these water changes reduce causticity.
remove and treat what you can, post follow up pics as the algae is dying so we can see it and learn what to expect. for the underwater areas, do one section at a time, taking weeks to complete we can't be in a big hurry. this took some time to become eutrophic, and it will take less but still -some- time to return the tank to oligotrophic conditions. Im assuming your nutrients are kept in order this whole time....but a recurring theme in this thread shows that even with that, some zapping is required in the majority of systems!
we can do some in tank work then I just like to offer what gets the fastest outcome first. the in tanks are by far the largest percentage of treatments on this thread, heres another. I didnt see cleaner shrimp, they and anemones might die. not sps, Ive never seen any that will die in the way we are about to treat and your tank will be another testament. promise you'll do follow up pics along the way!! back a few pages ago we had some -really- nice pre treatment pics that kinda left us hanging.
heres the right way for your setup
find something to inject with, like a diabetics syrings from a pharmacy. convince them you arent a meth head
take this in spots, not all at once. at no time do you just pour the peroxide in the tank even though that does work. since we are doing in tank work, full, there is still an amplification technique we should do. the underwater spot injections from previous pages, try to read it all if you get a chance tonite just to get any extra ideas like the saran wrap version etc.
basically all we are doing is turning off pumps, letting water still so the peroxide will stay as long as possible (brief seconds) around the target before dissipating into the water
so you would remove and externally treat what you can without hand removing the algae. this is to gauge the grow back and the expected time frames for kill for the underwater treated areas. remove, apply and rinse and put rocks back in and lets see through pics what the dying algae looks like and how long it takes to fall off. we use that to work our underwater option on the rest of the tank, with the expected timelines known
for the parts you cant remove, take a few mil's of peroxide, cc's if using a syringe, and while pumps are off and things are still, start injecting around the base growth areas of a certain rock. inject very very slowly, as it leaves the needle the peroxide is in high concentration in the water around your algea tufts, this is killing it. the rest of the peroxide just drifts off into the tank.
there isnt a certain dosage, sps are tough to it, but you will always use just a few cc's per day in a few areas, watch to see how those sps do in the next two days before moving on and injecting.
at least up your normal water changes during this run, something will have to be done above normal to make up for allowing this much of a tankwide infestation but agreed we can work without a full drain. peroxide is caustic but not lethal in your setup, so these water changes reduce causticity.
remove and treat what you can, post follow up pics as the algae is dying so we can see it and learn what to expect. for the underwater areas, do one section at a time, taking weeks to complete we can't be in a big hurry. this took some time to become eutrophic, and it will take less but still -some- time to return the tank to oligotrophic conditions. Im assuming your nutrients are kept in order this whole time....but a recurring theme in this thread shows that even with that, some zapping is required in the majority of systems!
brandon429
Active member
one other facet to watch for in these kinds of SPS tanks are localized tissue recession around the bases of the sps due to simple algae incursion (I have no idea what kind of algae that is)
its simply irritating. the corals will be offended by that alone, so this is why we arent trying to spot inject your whole tank in one weekend
each area you treat, watch for that tissue recession that it doesnt get worse, I dont think it will but we must be mindful. you will be able to tell in a small test area, a few days after the first few mls put into the tank as the starting injection treatment. I do think we can beat this for you. its the thich bodied red algae that just command an external treatment, these lighter filamentous ones tend to respond well to variations of the full tank dosing
fwiw, a scopas tank might eat the whole thing without any peroxide. tanks should love this stuff.
its simply irritating. the corals will be offended by that alone, so this is why we arent trying to spot inject your whole tank in one weekend
each area you treat, watch for that tissue recession that it doesnt get worse, I dont think it will but we must be mindful. you will be able to tell in a small test area, a few days after the first few mls put into the tank as the starting injection treatment. I do think we can beat this for you. its the thich bodied red algae that just command an external treatment, these lighter filamentous ones tend to respond well to variations of the full tank dosing
fwiw, a scopas tank might eat the whole thing without any peroxide. tanks should love this stuff.
I will read most of the thread later tonight, i have stared to make some osmosis water, to allow for water changes during the threatment. Is a weekly water change of 10% enough?
The system is lps/sps, no anemones or any schrimps.
So just to be clear that i understood your post proberly, i find a spot, and threat that with a few ml of peroxide. The system contains about 300l of water (79gallons), i then see how the system reacts to this.
what happens with the peroxide in the water? i take it gets disolved and dosent leave anything, that will caus some kind of buildup over time?
I have thought about getting some yellow tangs or some scoopas, i was just starthing to think it looked a bit like "slime" algea, and dident know if they woudl eat this.
I will take before and after pictures during the threatment. I will probaly start on a small spot tomorow, just to see how it works. Tnx for taking your time.
The system is lps/sps, no anemones or any schrimps.
So just to be clear that i understood your post proberly, i find a spot, and threat that with a few ml of peroxide. The system contains about 300l of water (79gallons), i then see how the system reacts to this.
what happens with the peroxide in the water? i take it gets disolved and dosent leave anything, that will caus some kind of buildup over time?
I have thought about getting some yellow tangs or some scoopas, i was just starthing to think it looked a bit like "slime" algea, and dident know if they woudl eat this.
I will take before and after pictures during the threatment. I will probaly start on a small spot tomorow, just to see how it works. Tnx for taking your time.
brandon429
Active member
the peroxide molecule is pulled apart as soon as it comes in contact with water, losing its spare oxygen atom as bleed off, rendering the rest distilled water basically. Im no chemist there could be other steps but this is dissociation as best a biology dude can do. its not instant, we think it takes about 24 to 48 hours to do this in an aquarium.
it would help if someone would do actual science studies about it, but there aren't any yet...for the aquarium. some studies of actual metabolic hydrogen peroxide (living creatures produce this in the real ocean as a metabolism product in the cells) in the ocean show a 48 dissipation rate, seen it somewhere on google.
I got most of that from big long argument threads in the chem forum lol.
your summary is good, we are injecting small amounts each day until clean and the initial treatments done outside the tank will register a much faster kill, just to get ahead where we can. it takes a huge, gross overdose to kill sps and lps we will be far below that even if you did try and do the whole tank in two days. we're spreading it out to be safe, since the sps is already mad from having its tissues anchored in by whatever that algae is.
it would help if someone would do actual science studies about it, but there aren't any yet...for the aquarium. some studies of actual metabolic hydrogen peroxide (living creatures produce this in the real ocean as a metabolism product in the cells) in the ocean show a 48 dissipation rate, seen it somewhere on google.
I got most of that from big long argument threads in the chem forum lol.
your summary is good, we are injecting small amounts each day until clean and the initial treatments done outside the tank will register a much faster kill, just to get ahead where we can. it takes a huge, gross overdose to kill sps and lps we will be far below that even if you did try and do the whole tank in two days. we're spreading it out to be safe, since the sps is already mad from having its tissues anchored in by whatever that algae is.
i thought something like that happened. I will start a photo diary, and update you in a few days time, to tell and show how its progressing.
lucky my sps havent show signs of any tisue damage on their bases, but then again i have ben trying to keep my sps as free as possible, with tweezers, pulling algea off slowly.. sure takes some time, and usaly it has overgrown the area after a few days again.
lucky my sps havent show signs of any tisue damage on their bases, but then again i have ben trying to keep my sps as free as possible, with tweezers, pulling algea off slowly.. sure takes some time, and usaly it has overgrown the area after a few days again.
for those that are interested
Day 3 pics
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vfnsbydbciyhgo/2013-06-26 22.34.16.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soibx6nx69ew0ku/2013-06-26 22.34.19.jpg
Day 4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nub3329afegq33u/2013-06-27 19.04.14.jpg
Day 5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tv0evmd35v7onpx/2013-06-28 17.56.39.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tv0evmd35v7onpx/2013-06-28 17.56.39.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ty3nujzs4tvlhb/2013-06-28 17.58.17.jpg
Day 7
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8ogut6v70rmf7q/2013-06-30 17.35.34.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8ogut6v70rmf7q/2013-06-30 17.35.34.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cisbr0obahd8qjk/2013-06-30 17.35.53.jpg
brandon429
Active member
Thank you for the follow up!!! I noticed you must have spot treated pretty well as the nice yellow sponge has remained. What's your take on the method...do you like it? I hope you are one of the lucky ones where a one pass fixes it. If not, you can retreat until we find the perfect preventative
Thanks! So far so good! It was very easy to do and quite impressed - especially compared to using the toothbrush scrub method! definitely going to tackle to rest of the tank now...will update pics soon
brandon429
Active member
A dinoflagellates cure we did this week with pics from nr.com
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/329681-possible-dinoflagellates-and-calothrix/
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/329681-possible-dinoflagellates-and-calothrix/
