pico reef pest algae problem challenge
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
brandon429
Active member
thank you for the update! as you can see the pics arent posting Im not sure what is causing it but i cant wait to see. i expect the best results to show about 4 days after a direct, external, undiluted application. thanks for updating Z!
I can cut and paste the links into the top of the page to see the pics, they look untreated. hopefully in 4 days we get some motion out of them, that invader should nearly be killed in 4 days after a direct 3% external treatment. it is atypical compared to the previous documentations on here for it to have zero result, makes me wonder about the actual peroxide if another few days looks like nothing was applied to the targets.
I can cut and paste the links into the top of the page to see the pics, they look untreated. hopefully in 4 days we get some motion out of them, that invader should nearly be killed in 4 days after a direct 3% external treatment. it is atypical compared to the previous documentations on here for it to have zero result, makes me wonder about the actual peroxide if another few days looks like nothing was applied to the targets.
Zwagerman
New member
Hi All,
Just came back from work, directly checked the test rock of yesterday. Unfortunately it is already covered with the brown slymi algae.
My best guess is that the bacteria is in the water and not attached to the rocks and grows pure from lighting. If i take out a stone covered with the brown algae you can simply rins of the brown stuff (without scrubbing) and the rock is clean. A few hours later you can already see new brown algae.
I'm lost
Just came back from work, directly checked the test rock of yesterday. Unfortunately it is already covered with the brown slymi algae.
My best guess is that the bacteria is in the water and not attached to the rocks and grows pure from lighting. If i take out a stone covered with the brown algae you can simply rins of the brown stuff (without scrubbing) and the rock is clean. A few hours later you can already see new brown algae.
I'm lost
brandon429
Active member
that is interesting thanks for the follow up I was just wondering about this tank this morning.
so to recap, the rocks covered in brown shown above, you took them out and poured peroxide right from the bottle all over the covered areas of the rock, waited 2 mins outside tank, rinsed off, put back in and in three days the rock is exactly the same as pre treatment and at no time in between did the test area come clean?
we have to test your peroxide bottle now. did you mention that you have access to peroxide locally, say at a grocery store or something or did I read you had to pick it up out of town? Id like to see pics of it fizzing on your treated rock if possible, just trying to narrow the challenge down.
we can keep looking for details to see if this is a persistent cyano attack, a nice part is that all treatments can be ran externally as opposed to test dosing your whole system. its been like this for a while now, a while longer isn't going to hurt comparatively. whatever we get to work in external testing conditions can be studied before larger application.
but you are saying the rock does come clean even through the act of simple rinsing, its the fact whatever is in the water comes back to reseed it quickly that part is becoming clear. if we have no more luck over the next few days then standard approaches for cyano can be considered, something as simple as a dedicated lights out test for 3 days can be a simple starting point that has known success on these boards in some tanks. then theres chemi clean, UV sterilization which is a prime attack for any persistent cyano invasion.
one of the details from reading the whole thread was that situation earlier in the first pages where windy ridge used the pond UV sterilizer as a critical approach in curing her cyano orange water problem. even if peroxide winds up not being a critical component of the cure we still want the clean tank after pics
your pics sure seemed to have a filamentous component that looked like an algae its quite a challenge. can you post us a picture of a test rock that was cleaned by peroxide, not manual removal, clean in the tank...and then a day later after its all covered again>? I hadnt seen a pic of the actual cleaned test rock yet, about to be overtaken. Id like to see something that indicates the peroxide can work on the target to render it clean again, and then yes Id agree if its getting quickly overtaken from something in the water column that sounds very much like a cyano or dino component which could make peroxide not rank very high on the list of common actions. UV sterilizers are very very well suited for those kinds of invasions and the sterilizers can be bought or borrowed from pond supply stores. not aquarium sterilizers, pond sterilizers. talk about a waste of time...if you are going to nuke something, do it right.
just brainstorming still, not indicating to run out and buy $300 worth of gear yet...sometimes getting a strategy ready takes a bit. for the right invader, a correct UV application can absolutely zap it gone I have used it personally several times for certain ponds and my own larger tanks. I dont run them continually, they are just part of an arsenal.
alright Ill say it which has pretty much been nonexistent in this thread
what are your tank params, and the test kits used to render them. Id like to see how the nitrate and phosphate read as the system appears pretty clean (I didnt see huge waste pockets etc)
if we are looking at more than just a surface layer invader then knowing tank params is part of a dedicated attack.
so to recap, the rocks covered in brown shown above, you took them out and poured peroxide right from the bottle all over the covered areas of the rock, waited 2 mins outside tank, rinsed off, put back in and in three days the rock is exactly the same as pre treatment and at no time in between did the test area come clean?
we have to test your peroxide bottle now. did you mention that you have access to peroxide locally, say at a grocery store or something or did I read you had to pick it up out of town? Id like to see pics of it fizzing on your treated rock if possible, just trying to narrow the challenge down.
we can keep looking for details to see if this is a persistent cyano attack, a nice part is that all treatments can be ran externally as opposed to test dosing your whole system. its been like this for a while now, a while longer isn't going to hurt comparatively. whatever we get to work in external testing conditions can be studied before larger application.
but you are saying the rock does come clean even through the act of simple rinsing, its the fact whatever is in the water comes back to reseed it quickly that part is becoming clear. if we have no more luck over the next few days then standard approaches for cyano can be considered, something as simple as a dedicated lights out test for 3 days can be a simple starting point that has known success on these boards in some tanks. then theres chemi clean, UV sterilization which is a prime attack for any persistent cyano invasion.
one of the details from reading the whole thread was that situation earlier in the first pages where windy ridge used the pond UV sterilizer as a critical approach in curing her cyano orange water problem. even if peroxide winds up not being a critical component of the cure we still want the clean tank after pics
your pics sure seemed to have a filamentous component that looked like an algae its quite a challenge. can you post us a picture of a test rock that was cleaned by peroxide, not manual removal, clean in the tank...and then a day later after its all covered again>? I hadnt seen a pic of the actual cleaned test rock yet, about to be overtaken. Id like to see something that indicates the peroxide can work on the target to render it clean again, and then yes Id agree if its getting quickly overtaken from something in the water column that sounds very much like a cyano or dino component which could make peroxide not rank very high on the list of common actions. UV sterilizers are very very well suited for those kinds of invasions and the sterilizers can be bought or borrowed from pond supply stores. not aquarium sterilizers, pond sterilizers. talk about a waste of time...if you are going to nuke something, do it right.
just brainstorming still, not indicating to run out and buy $300 worth of gear yet...sometimes getting a strategy ready takes a bit. for the right invader, a correct UV application can absolutely zap it gone I have used it personally several times for certain ponds and my own larger tanks. I dont run them continually, they are just part of an arsenal.
alright Ill say it which has pretty much been nonexistent in this thread
what are your tank params, and the test kits used to render them. Id like to see how the nitrate and phosphate read as the system appears pretty clean (I didnt see huge waste pockets etc)
if we are looking at more than just a surface layer invader then knowing tank params is part of a dedicated attack.
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Zwagerman
New member
Hi Brandon,
My locale fish shop also indicated a year ago that it seemed like a dino or cyano, but his chemichals did not work and costed me a lot of money.
You mentioned a UV sterilizer, luckely i have bought one 3 years ago for just in case, also i have a Ozone generator hooked on my skimmer ( turned on again last monday). I also have a phosphate with active carbon filter ready when needed.
Parameters:
Temp 25 - 27 degrees (80 farenheid)
Ph 8,50
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0
My locale fish shop also indicated a year ago that it seemed like a dino or cyano, but his chemichals did not work and costed me a lot of money.
You mentioned a UV sterilizer, luckely i have bought one 3 years ago for just in case, also i have a Ozone generator hooked on my skimmer ( turned on again last monday). I also have a phosphate with active carbon filter ready when needed.
Parameters:
Temp 25 - 27 degrees (80 farenheid)
Ph 8,50
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0
Panta rhei
New member
Hi, hope it helps: I was having severe dino infestation and I completerly solved it using a product named Dinoxal. See the pics below to see how were my LR before the treatment, now they are almost clear. Inverts (lps, sps, lysmata shrimps, archaster, urchin) and fishes are all OK.
brandon429
Active member
oh we can still fight both with peroxide, its just harder work and before we started I was hoping to see which conditions will at least strip the rock clean of the target. we have been able to find and repeat some upper tolerance limits well past the 1:10 ratio on previous tanks and that can work on this type of invader although most prefer the other methods. peroxide is exceptionally well suited for substrate level invasions.
there is whole tank dosing as you can see in the earlier pages, your shrimp wouldnt take it but all else would. if the uv is big enough, Id put that online. have you been running it??
there is whole tank dosing as you can see in the earlier pages, your shrimp wouldnt take it but all else would. if the uv is big enough, Id put that online. have you been running it??
Zwagerman
New member
Hi,
Now 2 days after the dipping method with peroxide. The stones are covered with algae as they were never dipped in peroxide.
After reading several threads i'm almost sure i'm dealing with cyanos. Any suggestions?
Running currently:
- 12 hours of 600w lighting
- 18.000ltr/h (4200gallon/h) powerheads
- skimmer with ozone generator
- calcium reactor
As for back up i can plug in the following if needed to beat this algae:
- phosphate reducing filter
- active carbon
- UV sterilizer
Now 2 days after the dipping method with peroxide. The stones are covered with algae as they were never dipped in peroxide.
After reading several threads i'm almost sure i'm dealing with cyanos. Any suggestions?
Running currently:
- 12 hours of 600w lighting
- 18.000ltr/h (4200gallon/h) powerheads
- skimmer with ozone generator
- calcium reactor
As for back up i can plug in the following if needed to beat this algae:
- phosphate reducing filter
- active carbon
- UV sterilizer
Captain Reefy
New member
Hello, this is my 1st post ever. Thanks for all the info!
I wanted to share my test with peroxide. I have a 20L coral only tank and I am currently battling dinos. The tank is covered (blackout) and I setup a small tank to the side that is connected to the system for corals. After much reading, I decided to use peroxide to help out; I dose 1ml per 10 gallons (2.5ml) and have been for the past 2 weeks.
My other problem is the algae on the few corals I have. I can scrape off the dinos with a sewing neddle / toothbrush, but I never can get it all.
I have a bazooka joe chalice that is getting the squeeze by aglae. I decided to spot treat it with peroxide. This time instead of treating the main aquarium, i put the coral in 2 cups of tank water and slowly treated the algae with 1 ml of peroxide. I used an aptasia syringe. When the peroxide hits the water you can see it and it tends to float upward. I held the coral vertical, put the end of the syringe on the edge of the coral and rotated while I was treating so the peroxide floated away from the coral flesh. I let it sit for 30 seconds after and then put it back in the tank, including the water. Here are some pics right after treatment (notice the bubbles) That was last night. This morning the coral looked fine and the algae looks like it may have changed color, tuff to tell. I was thinking I may need to do more treatments. I hope it works because I don't have too many other options and i didn't want to do a full dip and stress it out more. thanks
I wanted to share my test with peroxide. I have a 20L coral only tank and I am currently battling dinos. The tank is covered (blackout) and I setup a small tank to the side that is connected to the system for corals. After much reading, I decided to use peroxide to help out; I dose 1ml per 10 gallons (2.5ml) and have been for the past 2 weeks.
My other problem is the algae on the few corals I have. I can scrape off the dinos with a sewing neddle / toothbrush, but I never can get it all.
I have a bazooka joe chalice that is getting the squeeze by aglae. I decided to spot treat it with peroxide. This time instead of treating the main aquarium, i put the coral in 2 cups of tank water and slowly treated the algae with 1 ml of peroxide. I used an aptasia syringe. When the peroxide hits the water you can see it and it tends to float upward. I held the coral vertical, put the end of the syringe on the edge of the coral and rotated while I was treating so the peroxide floated away from the coral flesh. I let it sit for 30 seconds after and then put it back in the tank, including the water. Here are some pics right after treatment (notice the bubbles) That was last night. This morning the coral looked fine and the algae looks like it may have changed color, tuff to tell. I was thinking I may need to do more treatments. I hope it works because I don't have too many other options and i didn't want to do a full dip and stress it out more. thanks
Zwagerman
New member
Hi all,
Today all day busy with sucking away all the algae and installing the UV sterilizer.
During the algae removal i saw that only on top there is a layer of brown stuff and under that it is green hairy.
See below the pictures of the algae removed (about 2 inches tick and stinking). And the almost cleared display tank.
Today all day busy with sucking away all the algae and installing the UV sterilizer.
During the algae removal i saw that only on top there is a layer of brown stuff and under that it is green hairy.
See below the pictures of the algae removed (about 2 inches tick and stinking). And the almost cleared display tank.
Captain Reefy
New member
Update: I did a 2nd treatment last night since the 1st one did not harm the coral and there was dinos/algae that survived. This time I put the coral flat and used a smaller 1ml syringe that came with my red sea mag test kit. It has a pointy end so I was able to accurately spot treat around the coral while increasing the contact time. It took me a couple mins and then l let it sit for a couple more. I got much more bubbles this time on the contact area and the coral was again fine. I kept an eye on it to make sure no bubbles were coming off of the flesh, which it didn't despite being really close. I used the full 1 ml of peroxide
brandon429
Active member
friends I need to update about a technical problem with this thread, its happening more and more the larger it gets. it may have to be split by a mod or something...
I dont know if this is just my browser or if its for anyone who clicks the thread, im on an ipad. the thread gets kicked up appearing to have a new entrant, but when I click to read its only the older entry from days ago. then I check back for three days and its still the old post so I give up for a while and then after a long time the new post shows, only natron and Captain etc have already started treatments and Im just watching the activity post entry
so, as of now I see Captain replied but I can't see the new info, maybe for a couple days? anyway, when the bug works out I can't wait to chat about dino invasions. keep posting new pics and going off the old info its great to watch.
I dont know if this is just my browser or if its for anyone who clicks the thread, im on an ipad. the thread gets kicked up appearing to have a new entrant, but when I click to read its only the older entry from days ago. then I check back for three days and its still the old post so I give up for a while and then after a long time the new post shows, only natron and Captain etc have already started treatments and Im just watching the activity post entry
so, as of now I see Captain replied but I can't see the new info, maybe for a couple days? anyway, when the bug works out I can't wait to chat about dino invasions. keep posting new pics and going off the old info its great to watch.
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natron
New member
I actually have not started treatments yet... I am trying to get the last of a product (cyano solution) that didn't fare well, out of my water. I am apprehensive to start treatment until Im sure that stuff is gone(I am changing out carbon regular in my reactor and changing 10 gallons a day...yet my skimmer is still regurgitating foam like a volcano erupting).I also am still not sure as to what algae I have.
brandon429
Active member
Natron its valuable for this thread, its unique. I can't Id it
Plantbrain, from the macro algae forum prob can. The way I predict susceptibility to peroxide is to relate it to known susceptible and known resistant examples from this and the large nano-reef.com peroxide thread
Dinoflagellates, cyano, neomeris annulata and valonia can be beaten in some instances using an application method of peroxide but repeatability is low
Personal opinion that neo and dinos are the top two worst tank invaders to have, and the lowest of the low for repeatability when fighting with peroxide.
Bryozoan infestations and hydroid infestations are rare and I don't recall any tests for peroxide with those, maybe someday as they do appear in threads from time to time.
your colonizer/ invader in the very least appears to be from group Rhodophyta and I'd be curious to know if plant brain agrees. We know from prior experience that Rhd members can have a delay time after treatment before dying and that may apply here
If so, we have lots of success with all members of the large inclusion Rhd and this low lying, pigmented growth or alternate generation for some other morph later on shown in the pics above will respond well to the initial test rock run we have been discussing. Use a new bottle never opened from the pharmacy. Treat and rinse a few times outside tank, place back in, document the cleaning is the best start
Plantbrain, from the macro algae forum prob can. The way I predict susceptibility to peroxide is to relate it to known susceptible and known resistant examples from this and the large nano-reef.com peroxide thread
Dinoflagellates, cyano, neomeris annulata and valonia can be beaten in some instances using an application method of peroxide but repeatability is low
Personal opinion that neo and dinos are the top two worst tank invaders to have, and the lowest of the low for repeatability when fighting with peroxide.
Bryozoan infestations and hydroid infestations are rare and I don't recall any tests for peroxide with those, maybe someday as they do appear in threads from time to time.
your colonizer/ invader in the very least appears to be from group Rhodophyta and I'd be curious to know if plant brain agrees. We know from prior experience that Rhd members can have a delay time after treatment before dying and that may apply here
If so, we have lots of success with all members of the large inclusion Rhd and this low lying, pigmented growth or alternate generation for some other morph later on shown in the pics above will respond well to the initial test rock run we have been discussing. Use a new bottle never opened from the pharmacy. Treat and rinse a few times outside tank, place back in, document the cleaning is the best start
brandon429
Active member
This was just posted in the chem forum during an ammonia thread we were discussing
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/
A little part stuck out to me relating to this thread. The section where Randy references the .pdf guide that shows by weight how much of the N and P various macroalgae bind and hold
That impacts us as we discuss what happens when you let target algae die and disintegrate in your tank...is the N and P released back to the system significant in the mass of targets we treat, vs a single day's feeding? Food ft. I guess if you are killing a dry weight pound of macro it could be
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/
A little part stuck out to me relating to this thread. The section where Randy references the .pdf guide that shows by weight how much of the N and P various macroalgae bind and hold
That impacts us as we discuss what happens when you let target algae die and disintegrate in your tank...is the N and P released back to the system significant in the mass of targets we treat, vs a single day's feeding? Food ft. I guess if you are killing a dry weight pound of macro it could be
urbanrat84
New member
subscribing
brandon429
Active member
This is an interesting cousin to our peroxide thread. A large thread is building on the freshwater planted tank side of the equation
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146403
Even though we are marine its good to have here:
Greater breadth of info/feedback on systemic or tankwide doses, look at how they used one mil per ten gallons ranging to full strength dips of 3% for their plants and fish
Comparisons on generalized outcomes for freshwater filtration bacteria (are their tanks having to recycle?). We get to compare the effects of similar doses of algae among various tank habitats, peroxide actually has a much longer active history in planted tanks. If you linked work dating back to 1960 with it in fw tanks I would not be surprised.
That helps to know, that peroxide work in fish tanks has been done for decades. Wherever there have been tanks, someone was experimenting with hydrogen peroxide for them.
Susceptibility among similar clades of freshwater algae invaders, they too are working with filamentous species, moneran cyano species, they report tolerants and intolerant non targets to consider. Overall this is just a good informal freshwater study to watch unfold, and, many of us have freshwater tanks as well maybe it can help cheat a little infestation back to balance. You certainly don't see phosphate binding talk in this thread. Their whole tank is a refugium...and they still battle algae directly or it takes over their tank.
Maybe freshwater and saltwater technique in many respects aren't all that oppositional
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146403
Even though we are marine its good to have here:
Greater breadth of info/feedback on systemic or tankwide doses, look at how they used one mil per ten gallons ranging to full strength dips of 3% for their plants and fish
Comparisons on generalized outcomes for freshwater filtration bacteria (are their tanks having to recycle?). We get to compare the effects of similar doses of algae among various tank habitats, peroxide actually has a much longer active history in planted tanks. If you linked work dating back to 1960 with it in fw tanks I would not be surprised.
That helps to know, that peroxide work in fish tanks has been done for decades. Wherever there have been tanks, someone was experimenting with hydrogen peroxide for them.
Susceptibility among similar clades of freshwater algae invaders, they too are working with filamentous species, moneran cyano species, they report tolerants and intolerant non targets to consider. Overall this is just a good informal freshwater study to watch unfold, and, many of us have freshwater tanks as well maybe it can help cheat a little infestation back to balance. You certainly don't see phosphate binding talk in this thread. Their whole tank is a refugium...and they still battle algae directly or it takes over their tank.
Maybe freshwater and saltwater technique in many respects aren't all that oppositional
brandon429
Active member
Was really hoping to get as many update pics as possible from any treater good and bad outcome. The ones above looked very susceptible to peroxide and are predicted recoveries it sure would be neat to know~
This thread below is about losing tanks to the most invasive strains of dinoflagellates its a good read, have a plan if it happens to you. A peroxide save is in this thread. A peroxide non save is there too its a good read, try to predict what path you would take if it happens. Key differences exist between the peroxide save and loss testimonies
This thread has a truly amazing photograph
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2307000&page=4
Dinoflagellates as hitchikers on the slime coat of a fish. All tank transfers are vectors, not necessarily just hard substrates. What that means to us in this thread, in my opinion, is simply that peroxide is a tool to consider, especially before tank tear down. You never know what combination of actions will squelch or boost an invader population and this poster using 35% power peroxide as a full tank dose reports a good outcome. Pics would be nice
This thread below is about losing tanks to the most invasive strains of dinoflagellates its a good read, have a plan if it happens to you. A peroxide save is in this thread. A peroxide non save is there too its a good read, try to predict what path you would take if it happens. Key differences exist between the peroxide save and loss testimonies
This thread has a truly amazing photograph
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2307000&page=4
Dinoflagellates as hitchikers on the slime coat of a fish. All tank transfers are vectors, not necessarily just hard substrates. What that means to us in this thread, in my opinion, is simply that peroxide is a tool to consider, especially before tank tear down. You never know what combination of actions will squelch or boost an invader population and this poster using 35% power peroxide as a full tank dose reports a good outcome. Pics would be nice
