Pipefish! :D

[WaffleWalffle22]

I'm setting up the 28 Gallon JBJ NanoCube LED soon and I'm debating myself between clownfish or pipefish. I've always wanted pipefish so I think this would be a great opportunity for me to start with pipefish and possibly seahorses. I have a few questions...

1. Is 265 GPH too much flow for pipefish and/or seahorses? I know smaller seahorses don't like much flow, but is that true with pipefish and 4-6" seahorses?
2. I know that some seahorses don't like bright light, and the tank I really, really want (because I want my zoas to be more colorful) has about 95w of LEDs. Is that too much?
3. Do pipefish have to eat BBS or is that just baby and dwarf seahorses? Can pipefish eat regular brine shrimp?
4. Are pipefish relatively easy to keep? My skill level in the hobby is a intermediate and I've been doing SW tanks for over three years now.
5. Is there anything else I should know about pipefish?

I already know that if I got pipefish I would have to have mainly softies because other corals have stings which could potentially hurt the pipefish or seahorse.

 

[rayjay]

A 28g tank is suitable for a pair of seahorses. Any pipefish addition is really pushing things.
While some people have luck putting pipefish in reef conditons, putting them in a seahorse tank can compromise the safety of the seahorses by passing on pathogens that the seahorses are unable to adjust to.
Seahorses are best started in a species only tank. If you really want to have additions it's a lot safer to make those additions after you have succeeded in keeping the seahorses for a year or so.
While many people have pipefish successfully, the are countless hundreds of others who have failed.
There are even fewer true captive bred pipfish than true captive bred seahorses and the wild caught have to be trained to eat frozen foods.
OR apparently has captive bred pipes and Chad posted in another thread that in talking with OR, they mentioned they have been raised in their own facility.
Until wildcaught are transitioned to frozen you will have to feed live enriched food. The size of the food depends on the type of pipe and the size of them, with the smallest sizes needing nhbs, preferably enriched with Dan's Food with Beta Glucan.
As for flow, as long as there are areas of each, low, medium and high, they can choose where to be at any given time if you provide hitches if seahorses, and pipes are sometimes in tanks with moderate to high flows in reef tanks.
I haven't kept all species of pipes that are available in the trade but the ones I have had fed on nhbs but as they grew, they took larger live brine.
Degree of difficulty of keeping pipefish is a relative thing. To someone that has had no problem keeping them it would be considered perhaps easy.
To someone who has difficulty even when keeping them in recommended situations, they would say it's difficult.
Seahorses in my opinion are more work than any of my reef tanks.
There is a pipefish and seahorse relative forum on the org that you could peruse for more accurate information as well as checking out the library there.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

A 28g tank is suitable for a pair of seahorses. Any pipefish addition is really pushing things.
While some people have luck putting pipefish in reef conditons, putting them in a seahorse tank can compromise the safety of the seahorses by passing on pathogens that the seahorses are unable to adjust to.
Seahorses are best started in a species only tank. If you really want to have additions it's a lot safer to make those additions after you have succeeded in keeping the seahorses for a year or so.
While many people have pipefish successfully, the are countless hundreds of others who have failed.
There are even fewer true captive bred pipfish than true captive bred seahorses and the wild caught have to be trained to eat frozen foods.
OR apparently has captive bred pipes and Chad posted in another thread that in talking with OR, they mentioned they have been raised in their own facility.
Until wildcaught are transitioned to frozen you will have to feed live enriched food. The size of the food depends on the type of pipe and the size of them, with the smallest sizes needing nhbs, preferably enriched with Dan's Food with Beta Glucan.
As for flow, as long as there are areas of each, low, medium and high, they can choose where to be at any given time if you provide hitches if seahorses, and pipes are sometimes in tanks with moderate to high flows in reef tanks.
I haven't kept all species of pipes that are available in the trade but the ones I have had fed on nhbs but as they grew, they took larger live brine.
Degree of difficulty of keeping pipefish is a relative thing. To someone that has had no problem keeping them it would be considered perhaps easy.
To someone who has difficulty even when keeping them in recommended situations, they would say it's difficult.
Seahorses in my opinion are more work than any of my reef tanks.
There is a pipefish and seahorse relative forum on the org that you could peruse for more accurate information as well as checking out the library there.

Well if pipefish are pushing the size limit for my tank then I probably won't get them. I'm not as much interested in seahorses rather than pipefish, but if I decide not to get clownfish then I might look into pipes and horses more later. Thank you for your help!

 

[rayjay]

Just to be sure I haven't confused you, the pipefish in addition to the seahorses is pushing it.
However there is nothing wrong in having just pipefish in the tank.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Just to be sure I haven't confused you, the pipefish in addition to the seahorses is pushing it.
However there is nothing wrong in having just pipefish in the tank.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up! :fun4:
If that's the case, then I guess pipefish are in the running for being the inhabitants of my new tank. Would pipefish have any problems with LED lighting?
And if I got a pair of pipefish and they only ate live food, would they eat freshly hatched BBS (enriched with selcon)? Also, can pipefish live in 78F water? I read somewhere that seahorses need like 70-74F water.

 

[rayjay]

A lot of the smaller pipes will eat live brine but enrich them with "Dan's Food with or without Beta Glucan" available from seahorsesource.com.
Selco emulsions we have in the hobby are only fatty acids whereas the Dan's Food has a balanced nutrient profile in powder form that you mix in a blender for two minutes before feeding, and can be stored much much longer than the emulsions.
The recommended temperature range of 68°to 74°F is not a need for them in the wild, but because bacteria like vibriosis are captive in our tanks, and because they are so susceptible to being overcome by these nasty bacteria, this temperature range is meant to lessen the chance of the syngnathids being overcome and usually perishing.
The pipes would have no problem with the LED lighting.
Many species of pipefish must have male/female pairs as two males will fight to the death of one or both.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

How do I make sure to get a male/female pair? I'm looking to order from liveaquaria.com. When I place an order, do I just put in the order notes to have them give me a male and female if they can? Where do most people get their pairs from?

 

[rayjay]

I never ordered on line so I just had the store put two together to see if they fought or not. It could be a pair or it could be two females this way but at least not two males.
After, when eggs developed a month or so later it was obvious I had a pair.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

I'll talk to my local stores and see if they ever get any pipefish.
Thanks.

 

[mobyreef]

I have a pair of blue-lined pipe fish in my 150g reef with pretty heavy flow. I have acros & softies. They are my favorite fish because they are so small (about 2inches long) and you don't always see them all the time so its a real treat when you do get to see them. I do know where they sleep so I get to check on them before they go to bed. I have had them for about 4 months now and they have reproduced several times now. I know because I have seen the male with his belly bloated then he will be skinny again the next time I see'em. They were a pair at the LFS I bought together. The guy at the LFS was a little surprised when I told him I am putting them in a 150g reef. I would like to get another pipe fish if I come across something again. I don't feed them anything other than some frozen brine, cyclopeze and I am sure that they are eating copepods from the live rock.

 

[namxas]

I'll talk to my local stores and see if they ever get any pipefish. Thanks.

I suggest specifying what you're after rather than just asking for "pipefish", as there are groups that have different care requirements.

IMHO, the "flagfins" (genus Doryhamphus/Dunkerocamphus) are the easiest to keep, esp if you don't mod that NC28 for flow and temp. A pair of bluestripes would probably be your best bet, but as mentioned, with that particular fish, you MUST have a M-F pair. Mature males have pinnate (bumpy) snouts and are more concave than females.

Dragon-faced pipes (genus Corythicthys) would also do well, but are harder to feed due to their small snouts. However, once established, they do well in "reef" setups.

Your next best option might be a group of dwarf pug-nosed pipes (bryx dunckeri), but I'd set up a seagrass-type biotope using Caulerpa prolifera, or run a DSB (4" min) and use true seagrasses such as stargrass, manatee grass, eel grass, etc. I'd drop the temp for these fish to 74*F max.

HTH