Planning my macro algae/ seagrass tank

[Subsea]

How long have you had the Sargassum macro in your tank? What kind of light and spectrum are you using?

Great looking macro lagoon.

I am somewhat jealous of your location. There are three great vendors of GOM aquacultured live rock in Tampa Bay. I get uncured live rock air freighted to me in Austin. I am pampering some dragons breath and sargassum that are attached to some rock.

From the picture I observed, what you are calling grape Caulerpa is C. Peltata. Check out live-plants.com, click on free guide then click on green macro. There are two varieties.

 

[nawilson89]

How long have you had the Sargassum macro in your tank? What kind of light and spectrum are you using?

Great looking macro lagoon.

I am somewhat jealous of your location. There are three great vendors of GOM aquacultured live rock in Tampa Bay. I get uncured live rock air freighted to me in Austin. I am pampering some dragons breath and sargassum that are attached to some rock.

From the picture I observed, what you are calling grape Caulerpa is C. Racemosa. Check out live-plants.com, click on free guide then click on green macro. There are two varieties.

C Racemosa! Thanks for the ID. It's looking very good.

I think I'm in a prime spot for the hobby. Alot of the online sites I visit end up being right in my area, and I get to do a lot of fun local collecting too. An aquacultured vendor here is where I got my sargassum, and c racemosa from. The sargassum has been in the tank for a few weeks now. Around 3 I think. The first two it really didn't do much and has started taking in nutrients and looking alot better this week, if it keeps growing at this rate I plan on giving it a trim in a week or two and replanting the cuts.

The lights I'm using are refugium bulbs from reefradiance.com I have two over a 20g tank, I'll post a snip of there specs below:




Thanks again! I'm glad it's looking so well, macros are one of my fav parts of the hobby, I enjoy what they become much more than corals and keeps me in my roots as a planted tank enthusiast. What I've been learning on the freshwater side of the hobby has helped me grow on the saltwater side and vice versa. Hopefully one day my other half will allow me to set up more tanks and I can do another freshwater with what i've learned here and make something beautiful!

 

[Subsea]

I already corrected my original post. Racemosa is Grape Caulerpa. Peltata is what I think you have. Russ Kronwetter describes the two varieties as half spheres. One features smooth rounded caps and the other has a more concave shape with thin edges.

 

[nawilson89]

I already corrected my original post. Racemosa is Grape Caulerpa. Peltata is what I think you have. Russ Kronwetter describes the two varieties as half spheres. One features smooth rounded caps and the other has a more concave shape with thin edges.

Interesting. I've taken both a picture of Peltata and a picture of Racemosa and put them next to my picture. At first the when i looked at each they looked more like Racemosa. Then like Peltata. Now all three look the same. I see what you're saying about one with a rounded cap and the other with a more thinner edge. Looks like I'll have to wait til I get home today to take a closer look. Since I've taken the picture more shoots have grown so I can get a better look at them all.

Thanks again!

 

[Genera]

I though C. lentellifera was grape caulerpa? I have tons of it. Hmmm... Oh well. People eat it. :hmm3:

 

[nawilson89]

I though C. lentellifera was grape caulerpa? I have tons of it. Hmmm... Oh well. People eat it. :hmm3:

Seems like you have a different type of "grape" caulerpa .

I actually like that one. Has a nice look to it.

When you said "people eat it" I thought you meant fish. Now i see, people actually eat it.... so... that's interesting.

 

[Subsea]

After doing some research, C. Racemosa is ediable fresh from tank. I have eaten several species of Red Gracilaria, that are collectively called Red Ogo.

 

[nawilson89]

Things are looking good? Or really... well.

My Goby hasn't been seen since before the holidays. Last time I saw him he was fat, like just huge. Safe to say he's gone. By now I would have seen him in his usual spot or my girlfriend would have seen him at SOME point.

What the heck is killing my fish, and JUST my fish?

So I went through the list again:
Neon Gobies died from what looks like Ich, not eating.
Gramma died from what looked like Ich, not eating.
Blenny died from me. No ich, no white spots, or flashing. Eating very well.
Goby died from mystery. Eating extremely well. Had gained weight since purchase.

Water checks have shown nothing, no highs in ammonia, inverts are doing well. Since starting the tank, ive lost ONE astrea snail.

Mystery invert killer? All rock was from local reefers with the only negative invert being aiptasia on two rocks.
No mantis or large evil crab, again my inverts are fine and i've actually had snail breeding going on.

Could the hydroids have killed my small goby? It's possible, from what ive read hydroids kill fry and small fish.


Back to my old stance.
Not adding anything for a while. Let's see what happens.

When i do add to this tank it will be a semi aggressive haven.

Two Clowns
Pygmy Hawfish
Damsel

Other than that, not adding anything fish wise.

I do want to add shrimp, peppermint or skunk cleaner.

 

[nawilson89]

I want to add that my macro algae on the other hand is looking great. Sargassum is about to touch the water level and I plan to cut and glue it to smaller rocks this week, it's actually growing much faster than I expected. I really wish my dragonsbreath and gracilaria would grow like this. The Gracilaria doesn't look like it's changed and i've even lost a lot of it. Not sure what to do...

Grape caulerpa is spreading out on the rock, weaving through holes and getting itself together.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Sorry to hear of your dying fish mystery. To rule out any future ich problems, your tank should have no fish at all for a certain amount of time that I can't recall at the moment. Maybe a month? Look it up. With no fish hosts, the life cycle of the "ichies" is broken. I'd start with that.

Congrats on your macro success!

As you are seeing, some grow much faster than others. It will be tough to keep nutrient levels high enough to spur growth without fish. So you may want to feed the tank as if there ARE fish or start dosing something you aren't currently dosing. Don't forget the 'big 3'-Carbon, Nitrogen, Phosphate. Phosphate takes care of itself in most tanks. For nitrogen, I like stump remover (potassium nitrate). For carbon, I prefer CO2 and/or bio pellets. There's always vinegar or vodka dosing for carbon as well. I lean towards CO2 because it hasn't caused any bacterial blooms, like carbon dosing has for me.

I like your idea of not adding anything for a while. Just observe. Let Mother Nature correct any imbalances for you. That's what she does, and does better than any of us!

 

[nawilson89]

Sorry to hear of your dying fish mystery. To rule out any future ich problems, your tank should have no fish at all for a certain amount of time that I can't recall at the moment. Maybe a month? Look it up. With no fish hosts, the life cycle of the "ichies" is broken. I'd start with that.

Congrats on your macro success!

As you are seeing, some grow much faster than others. It will be tough to keep nutrient levels high enough to spur growth without fish. So you may want to feed the tank as if there ARE fish or start dosing something you aren't currently dosing. Don't forget the 'big 3'-Carbon, Nitrogen, Phosphate. Phosphate takes care of itself in most tanks. For nitrogen, I like stump remover (potassium nitrate). For carbon, I prefer CO2 and/or bio pellets. There's always vinegar or vodka dosing for carbon as well. I lean towards CO2 because it hasn't caused any bacterial blooms, like carbon dosing has for me.

I like your idea of not adding anything for a while. Just observe. Let Mother Nature correct any imbalances for you. That's what she does, and does better than any of us!

Thanks!

The time period is actually 2 months and it's what I'm currently aiming for.

I still need to work on my CO2 as I completely forgot about it. I do feed the tank for my macros as well as pods. These pods are so daring right now. Pods are swimming into the water column to grab food as it comes down. I see them everywhere even in light! Just moving around the tank.

Carbon from CO2. Phosphate from foods. So now nitrogen....

I was also thinking of miracle grow liquid plant food too...

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Most plant foods like Miracle Grow contain phosphate-something we already have in abundance in our tanks.

 

[nawilson89]

Most plant foods like Miracle Grow contain phosphate-something we already have in abundance in our tanks.

Interesting. I also add a bit of phosphate with top offs. When I do water changes I use RODI, but tops off are tap water with Prime added.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

The median C:N atomic ratio of benthic marine macroalgae and seagrasses is about 550:30:1. (Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphate)

Unless you have a tank with no fish and no fish food, you never, ever have to dose phosphate. A lot of us ignore the most important one (in amount) - Carbon. We often have some form of nitrogen from the nitrogen cycle, be it ammonia, nitrate or nitrite. But these get limited by bio-filtration - especially with DSBs, so dosing nitrate (the safest for fish) is often needed.

 

[nawilson89]

The median C:N atomic ratio of benthic marine macroalgae and seagrasses is about 550:30:1. (Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphate)

Unless you have a tank with no fish and no fish food, you never, ever have to dose phosphate. A lot of us ignore the most important one (in amount) - Carbon. We often have some form of nitrogen from the nitrogen cycle, be it ammonia, nitrate or nitrite. But these get limited by bio-filtration - especially with DSBs, so dosing nitrate (the safest for fish) is often needed.

Thinking of adding seachem flourish to my dosing:

Total Nitrogen
0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5)
0.01%
Soluble Potash
0.37%
Calcium (Ca)
0.14%
Magnesium (Mg)
0.11%
Sulfur (S)
0.2773%
Boron (B)
0.009%
Chlorine (Cl)
1.15%
Cobalt (Co)
0.0004%
Copper (Cu)
0.0001%
Iron (Fe)
0.32%
Manganese (Mn)
0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo)
0.0009%
Sodium (Na)
0.13%
Zinc (Zn)
0.0007%

Or just flourish alone, plus my CO2.

Edit: realized that doesnt help me with nitrates. Now looking into stump remover.

 

[nawilson89]

Snail eggs and huge pods!

Found a line of snail eggs on the back glass yesterday when I got home. According to the hitchhiking guide i frequent, I'm looking at Cerith eggs. So... YES!

I forgot to take pictures as my daughter was getting fussy and I went to go play with her for a bit.

I did note that my tank is being over run by more of a certain type of pod. Went back to my guide again. "Isopod - Munnid" seems to be what I have. The Amphipods are getting bigger and bolder too, I saw one chasing another pod away.

There's also my flatworms. Their population is growing as well. I think when it's time for me to add fish, Ill saw the damsel out for a sixline wrasse, about the same size and temperament, but with a taste for flatworms.

Macro Growth

Looking at my snail eggs I took note of some gracilaria. In the far back I saw some stems that were long and thick, they looked really good, but right in front of them one was losing color and getting thin and frail. My Pistol Shrimp may have covered the base of the algae with sand. Not sure where to move it as I really don't have much room, especially with the right side of the tank being over come with grape caulerpa. I really need to set up the 29g soon.

Seagrass

Shoal Grass is still sending up shoots. I'm counting more popping up from between leaves of caulerpa prolifera more and more. They seem to be reacting very well to the mud.

 

[Subsea]

The median C:N atomic ratio of benthic marine macroalgae and seagrasses is about 550:30:1. (Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphate)

Unless you have a tank with no fish and no fish food, you never, ever have to dose phosphate. A lot of us ignore the most important one (in amount) - Carbon. We often have some form of nitrogen from the nitrogen cycle, be it ammonia, nitrate or nitrite. But these get limited by bio-filtration - especially with DSBs, so dosing nitrate (the safest for fish) is often needed.

Michael,
I agree with your statement about carbon limited. About three months ago, I begin dosing with vinegar every other day. While I do not skim to export bacteria/nutrients, I consider healthy bacteria populations to be integral for recycling nutrients back into coral, macro and fish.

 

[nawilson89]

It's been a while since I've done a water change. So far I've only been topping off and letting the plants do the work. Time for one though, I think the tank is a bit nutrient heavy, I'm getting some hair algae on the filter.

Porcelain Crabs are out and about. This is the first time I've seen all three of them together since adding them to the tank, they've taken up a spot in the back corner of the tank where the flow goes down and back around. The smallest has grown! Speaking of grown my red mithrax crab has now DOUBLED in size, maybe even more? He's molted twice since I've got him! He was munching on his molt last night. My Pistol Shrimp has also molted. I found a full body molt Saturday morning and on Sunday morning it was gone, he probably came back and ate that too.

Before I had posted that I thought I had 2 Stomatella Snails. It's been confirmed as I saw one grazing the back glass and another hiding in a crevice of rock, to be honest I think there is more than two! I saw a very small one last night... could they also be breeding?

I've also seen my first batch of nassarius babies! I saw about 4 on caulerpa leaves. The cerith eggs have also mostly disappeared. Not sure what happened to them, hopefully they've hatched.

With so many breeding inverts I think I want to add some shrimp. I'm not even thinking of fish anymore! I would love to have shrimp breeding readily in here!

 

[nawilson89]

Not much of an update. I've purchased a Mars Aqua 165w light that I wanted to use on my next build. Suddenly I had a change of heart and I REALLY want to do another freshwater planted tank instead of a second salt. my Mars Aqua may go to my 20g and the Reef Radiance bulbs will go out for my freshwater.

When Multiple Tank Syndrome hits on both the freshwater and saltwater side of the hobby it makes the head hurt!

 

[Subsea]

Not much of an update. I've purchased a Mars Aqua 165w light that I wanted to use on my next build. Suddenly I had a change of heart and I REALLY want to do another freshwater planted tank instead of a second salt. my Mars Aqua may go to my 20g and the Reef Radiance bulbs will go out for my freshwater.

When Multiple Tank Syndrome hits on both the freshwater and saltwater side of the hobby it makes the head hurt!

How is lighting spectrum different for fresh water plants as opposed to macro algae? Especially with respect to LED?