Planning my macro algae/ seagrass tank

[nawilson89]

Blenny seemed to be waning this morning and passed a bit ago...

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Sorry for your losses. Ich then?

Are you fishless now? If so, this frees you up to dose more for your plants. Good luck!

 

[nawilson89]

Fishless. So yeah. Dosing again

 

[nawilson89]

Update:

What a day. Wow. I lost my blenny today, and it really hit me right in the heart. Even my girlfriend noticed that I was down in the dumps. In my years of fishkeeping from fresh to salt, i've lost fish, but not an entire tank of fish. It was heartbreaking...

The day went on though and I met up with a local business owner who by all means amazes me. This is the second transaction ive been in with him in 2 years and it will not be the last. I went to him looking for a things and left with so much.

I was looking for grape caulerpa and left with grape caulerpa, sargassum, three porcelain crabs, a super tiny emerald crab, a pistol shrimp and a tigrigobius macrodon, for an amazing price.

I was hesitant to put the new goby in 2.5 and the main tank, but I quick ich-x bath after acclimation and watched him devour some frozen foods, I threw him in my 20g. The pod population is strong and I'll be feeding with more live and frozen foods to keep his appetite up and the ich at bay.

I spent alot of time reading about ich yesterday and made the decision on other testimonies about adding my little guy. If he was a healthy eater (which he is) I would add him and keep a close eye. I noticed with my last additions that though I saw the blenny picking at pods, none of the fish were eating very much compared to my older fish years ago and this new goby (something I should have noticed before. I was a bit short sighted and kept alot of my attention on the macros, thinking the fish would been okay).

So with a new outlook and mistakes being made I'm hoping to have better results with fish. It's funny. Last year I was doing great with fish and terrible with macros. Now I'm doing great with macros and terrible with fish.....

Macros:

So with the less fishload I will be dosing, I'm also thinking of adding my Co2 pump from my old freshwater setup to the tank also.... I'm wondering if that would be a beneficial addition to the tank. The Co2 would run when the lights were on and turned off at night, since macros release Co2 when there is no light, I don't want to release Co2 at night also and cause a PH shift.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Losing all your fish is a major bummer. It sounds like you've found a great LFS though.

I haven't had any disease outbreaks for years, so I don't remember all the things you're supposed to do. It varies, depending on the outbreak. You didn't mention what you've done to eradicate it. I know that one of them dies out, after several weeks, if there are no fish hosts, so I'm concerned that you've added another fish so soon.

In my opinion, you shouldn't add new fish until you've cured the problem. You said you did a lot of reading. Are you sure you have correctly diagnosed the problem? If so, are you doing everything to solve it? Curing disease/parasites isn't fun or exciting, but it has its rewards.

A tank wipe out hits you hard in the heart, but it's your brain that'll get you back to where you want to be.

 

[nawilson89]

Losing all your fish is a major bummer. It sounds like you've found a great LFS though.

I haven't had any disease outbreaks for years, so I don't remember all the things you're supposed to do. It varies, depending on the outbreak. You didn't mention what you've done to eradicate it. I know that one of them dies out, after several weeks, if there are no fish hosts, so I'm concerned that you've added another fish so soon.

In my opinion, you shouldn't add new fish until you've cured the problem. You said you did a lot of reading. Are you sure you have correctly diagnosed the problem? If so, are you doing everything to solve it? Curing disease/parasites isn't fun or exciting, but it has its rewards.

A tank wipe out hits you hard in the heart, but it's your brain that'll get you back to where you want to be.

So, I did a lot of reading that's true. A lot of it were from some posts of on other forums and some of my old journals. I kept a series of writing of my first saltwater tanks. I've dealt with ich before, but never in a case like this. I've had one or two catch it in the past without losing any fish. No quarantine, no removal; in fact.

I think i said before that i had neglected my fish in favor of working better toward my macro algae. I was definitely blinded by my success of my old fish (At a certain point, I had a healthy pair of breeding gobies).

My loss of the blenny i account to removing it from the tank, not from ich.

Neon Gobies: the day before I loss them I saw one with prominent white spots on it body. That's when I realized there was a problem. Neither was eating.

Gramma: After the loss of the Gobies i saw white spots on its body. It wasn't eating. It passed Friday night/ Saturday morning.

Blenny: Eating pods. Snacking on caulerpa. No white spots. Nothing. I removed it, did a fw dip for 2 minutes, and put it in a 2.5g with live rock from my tub and some ich -x. Died the next day.

The blenny was the only fish to not show any symptoms of ich and died from my haste. I think if I had left the blenny in, it would have still be present today with no issues.

So my biggest issue is fish not eating. I'll be changing my pellet foods to something else (probably freeze-dried cyclopeeze, which I used in my old tanks).

Hopefully this makes more sense on what I am doing.

So from what ive read from others and my own experience, it seems to be about appetite.

 

[nawilson89]

I'm incredibly terrible an elaborating and what I mean when I say I am going to do things. It probably makes it really hard to understand what is going and I apologize. Communication isn't a strong point for me so it's a work in progress to explain what I've done and what my next steps are.

I am really enjoying your input and advice Michael!

I do actually want to chat a bit about Co2 for macro's and seagrasses. If I remember correctly you did Co2 via canister earlier in your tank right?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Good to hear! I know it's not easy listening to advice from other hobbyists sometimes. A very healthy attitude!

I'm still using CO2 in my tank, with no plans to stop. Carbon is very important. Most of us add no carbon, except through feeding fish food. This works, but you also get phosphate. And this throws off the C-N-P ratios (carbon-nitrogen-phosphate). The ideal C-N-P ratio for seagrasses is roughly 400-40-1. So I add carbon (CO2) and nitrogen (ammonia or nitrate).

 

[nawilson89]

Good to hear! I know it's not easy listening to advice from other hobbyists sometimes. A very healthy attitude!

I'm still using CO2 in my tank, with no plans to stop. Carbon is very important. Most of us add no carbon, except through feeding fish food. This works, but you also get phosphate. And this throws off the C-N-P ratios (carbon-nitrogen-phosphate). The ideal C-N-P ratio for seagrasses is roughly 400-40-1. So I add carbon (CO2) and nitrogen (ammonia or nitrate).

Oh! Okay. Hmm. I'll need my uncles help with my canister then. It seems to be stuck on the valve... It's not penetrating so nothing is coming out, but I can't get it off to put on a new valve.

I'll start running that, either this weekend of after the holiday.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Are you having trouble connecting your CO2 source to your canister filter?

Here's what I do: I have a 5 pound CO2 tank, with a needle valve regulator. I run an air hose up to a matching hole I drilled into the intake of my canister filter. The canister mixes up the CO2 and water and shoots it back into my tank - pretty simple.

I'm not injecting at a very high rate, so I don't turn it off at night, but in theory, that's an ideal practice.

 

[nawilson89]

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Are you having trouble connecting your CO2 source to your canister filter?

Here's what I do: I have a 5 pound CO2 tank, with a needle valve regulator. I run an air hose up to a matching hole I drilled into the intake of my canister filter. The canister mixes up the CO2 and water and shoots it back into my tank - pretty simple.

I'm not injecting at a very high rate, so I don't turn it off at night, but in theory, that's an ideal practice.

I have a fluval pressurized system like this:
http://www.saltwaterfish.com/produc...ZZjCMqPGKvAw3EEzHWhFYlzI36-JwTsfBMaAoxT8P8HAQ

When it eventually ran out I went to walmart and got a paintball canister, as others on forums had recommended to me (this is last december on my freshwater set up). I put the new canister in the regulator (the term i was looking for! Thanks) and tightened it. It never broke the seal so no Co2 was ever released. I tightened it too tight for me to open it now. I can't get it off!

 

[nawilson89]

Cloudy tank! Pistol Shrimp is going to work! I missed the sounds of a the pop pop pop!



Goby is camera shy.



One of the sargassum. Split them on. Have one on the end and another in the middle.



All the other Porcelain Crabs hightailed it into the brush, save for this dude. Think he likes hanging out under the powerhead.



Grape Caulerpa with some green bubble algae and the zoa on rocks. Hope the Zoa turn out alright.

 

[nawilson89]

Mini update:

Nothing really to put here. Haven't worked out adding Co2 yet. Can't wait for the new year where I have a bit of money to start my new tank. That way I can pull back alot of caulerpa and see how much my sea grass has grown.

 

[nawilson89]

I think it's time to start pulling some caulerpa. I think it's fast growth has inhibited the growth of other macro algae.

I have a tub with LR on my porch that I'll throw it in. With the halimeda that hasn't grown at all since I got it.

 

[vlangel]

Don't give up too quick on halimeda. Mine took months to do anything except get fuzzy nuisance algae on it and then all at once it began growing and now I have lots of new growth. Some macros take a while to settle in.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

That's great you've gotten to the point of pruning back caulerpa. You're right about it outcompeting other plants with its fast growth.

I've had a love-hate relationship with mine. I love the look of it, I love how much export I get when pruning it back. I hate that it sucks up everything I dose the water column, outcompeting my seagrass. That's why I turned to substrate fertilization. If I had to do it over again, I'd plant my tank with lots of manatee grass only. Then, after it was very well established, I'd add macros. But that's only because manatee grass is my pivotal species (priority). When keeping macros and seagrass with equal priority, I think you just have to accept the disparity in growth rates and adapt and work with it.

 

[nawilson89]

Don't give up too quick on halimeda. Mine took months to do anything except get fuzzy nuisance algae on it and then all at once it began growing and now I have lots of new growth. Some macros take a while to settle in.

I'll give it a bit longer. Though next year I plan on sending it to my blender along with my chaeto, and some caulerpa to make a nice nutrient export for my mud.

 

[nawilson89]

That's great you've gotten to the point of pruning back caulerpa. You're right about it outcompeting other plants with its fast growth.

I've had a love-hate relationship with mine. I love the look of it, I love how much export I get when pruning it back. I hate that it sucks up everything I dose the water column, outcompeting my seagrass. That's why I turned to substrate fertilization. If I had to do it over again, I'd plant my tank with lots of manatee grass only. Then, after it was very well established, I'd add macros. But that's only because manatee grass is my pivotal species (priority). When keeping macros and seagrass with equal priority, I think you just have to accept the disparity in growth rates and adapt and work with it.

One of the reasons I'm removing some is that I forgot I had sea grasses!

Also. Forgot to mention earlier. Looks like it took a few days to acclimate, but the grape caulerpa is growing! Can't wait for it to come into it's own.

 

[nawilson89]

Update:

Removed a bit of caulerpa and my chaeto. Everything removed was thrown into my tub outside. Going to see what happens to it.

I can see the seagrass and its growth coming thru much better now. The caulerpa and gracilaria have taken over the area. Alot of it will be removed once again to go to my 29g when it starts next year, just trying to hold on til then.

Moved my dragons breath from the seagrass area to atop some rock, hopefully it will start to grow more.

 

[Subsea]

Mini update:

Nothing really to put here. Haven't worked out adding Co2 yet. Can't wait for the new year where I have a bit of money to start my new tank. That way I can pull back alot of caulerpa and see how much my sea grass has grown.

With respect to CO2 injection into a marine tank, you will have an effect of lowering the pH. Consider a calcium reactor that dissolves aroggonite. This would buffer your pH and increase your alkalinity.