Who will be your customers? Our plan is locals, and then to expand from there. I am always interested in finding how others generate customers. I think the main thing with this(any) business is finding and keeping customers. I would strongly look at your motives though, and make sure you are interested in running a business. When you start this you will no longer be a reef hobbyist, you will be a business owner who happens to sell coral. I have actually had to hire someone to help maintain my tank while we build our farm! Sad but true, lol. Obtw are overall setups are very similar.
Profitibility of propagation
- Thread starter Allmost
- Start date
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
re: profibility of propagation
re: profibility of propagation
research Tropicorium in Detroit.
They've been growing corals in greenhouses at the same latitude as Toronto for around 30 years.
Don't plan on getting rich doing this
edit: I see now this has already been mentioned.
re: profibility of propagation
research Tropicorium in Detroit.
They've been growing corals in greenhouses at the same latitude as Toronto for around 30 years.
Don't plan on getting rich doing this
edit: I see now this has already been mentioned.
jimmy frag
New member
3 years in and yes its a full time job that you only can attend to part time. finding customers is the toughest part. flooding the market is a reality. you end up selling just to free up space for the next batch of corals.
Gary in Rochester,
Is John Progno still operating out in Spencerport?
He has played with this idea quite a lot, good ideas, not enough time.
We were going to make a trip together to Tropicorium , wish we had, I'd probably be doing it back in your area now myself, I used to sell live rocks and frag-mounted rocks to him and Carribean Seas out on 104 in Eastern Rochester,
I made those rocks, back when I was writing for GARF.
To me the operation to emulate is Tropicorium, anybody wanting to do this should go visit. What you will learn is real time real stuff, not manufacturiers hype. Look out back when you go, and you will see a lot of stuff that was supposed to work but didnt cut it.That alone is worth the price of the gas to there.
Is John Progno still operating out in Spencerport?
He has played with this idea quite a lot, good ideas, not enough time.
We were going to make a trip together to Tropicorium , wish we had, I'd probably be doing it back in your area now myself, I used to sell live rocks and frag-mounted rocks to him and Carribean Seas out on 104 in Eastern Rochester,
I made those rocks, back when I was writing for GARF.
To me the operation to emulate is Tropicorium, anybody wanting to do this should go visit. What you will learn is real time real stuff, not manufacturiers hype. Look out back when you go, and you will see a lot of stuff that was supposed to work but didnt cut it.That alone is worth the price of the gas to there.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
oh my gawsh...... HI JAKE! :beer:
I'll be going over to talk to John in a few hours!
I visited Trop with John back in the '90's.
John built a greenhouse but (unfortunately) he stores junk in it. Oh well, you know John and he hasn't changed one bit
John Progno
John Progno
Hi Gary, thought that was you :beer:
Tell John I said hi and to take a break from counting his money and to come on here, yeah, I remember the greenhouse that became a catchall, at that time I'd have given my left you know what for it, in hind sight I should have.
He has some great ideas but not enough time to put them into action. Along with boat building etc. I am glad he got to go out to Dicks, I am going down there probably after the first and pick up some stuff for the new system.
I give John credit for having a successful operation all of these years, and his affinity for whimsy is clear in his boats. I loved the tug he built.
He could replicate Tropicorium if he wanted. And do it right.
John Progno
Hi Gary, thought that was you :beer:
Tell John I said hi and to take a break from counting his money and to come on here, yeah, I remember the greenhouse that became a catchall, at that time I'd have given my left you know what for it, in hind sight I should have.
He has some great ideas but not enough time to put them into action. Along with boat building etc. I am glad he got to go out to Dicks, I am going down there probably after the first and pick up some stuff for the new system.
I give John credit for having a successful operation all of these years, and his affinity for whimsy is clear in his boats. I loved the tug he built.
He could replicate Tropicorium if he wanted. And do it right.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
truly a small world moment here
truly a small world moment here
John was very excited to hear that I talked to you and he wants you to get in touch with him. Send me a private message here on RC with your contact info.
I regards to this specific thread (re: profibility of propagation) these are my thoughts:
I see a lot of local (upstate NY) noob reefkeepers setting up prop tanks and I wonder if they're under the impression that there's big bucks in growing corals. (Never mind the fact that they have yet to actually GROW many corals other than Kenya Trees (softies), Zoanthids and Xenia!)
JMO but learn to grow corals FIRST. You don't need a greenhouse or prop system- grow them in your display reef aquarium!
The situation in Canada (which is about 60 miles west of where I live) is a little bit different than here in the 'states.
The economy wasn't as badly hurt by the recent recession in the USA but the market for corals isn't nearly as large as here in the USA, either.
You can't legally bring your corals into the USA without obtaining the necessary permits.
This is what I perceive to be the main factors of profibility when propagating corals in Canada.
There's a lot of small prop operations everywhere and that's where I see the future of coral propagation headed. JMO.
truly a small world moment here
John was very excited to hear that I talked to you and he wants you to get in touch with him. Send me a private message here on RC with your contact info.
I regards to this specific thread (re: profibility of propagation) these are my thoughts:
I see a lot of local (upstate NY) noob reefkeepers setting up prop tanks and I wonder if they're under the impression that there's big bucks in growing corals. (Never mind the fact that they have yet to actually GROW many corals other than Kenya Trees (softies), Zoanthids and Xenia!)
JMO but learn to grow corals FIRST. You don't need a greenhouse or prop system- grow them in your display reef aquarium!
The situation in Canada (which is about 60 miles west of where I live) is a little bit different than here in the 'states.
The economy wasn't as badly hurt by the recent recession in the USA but the market for corals isn't nearly as large as here in the USA, either.
You can't legally bring your corals into the USA without obtaining the necessary permits.
This is what I perceive to be the main factors of profibility when propagating corals in Canada.
There's a lot of small prop operations everywhere and that's where I see the future of coral propagation headed. JMO.
There is a guy here in Colorado who has his "aquaculture facility" in his warehouse, and home. He wholesales around the country, sells on e-bay and locally. If I remember right I think at last count he was around 6000 gallons. But that is all him and his wife do. He propagates mostly sps and zoas. His sps systems are dedicated, the zoas are grown in smaller systems and shallow tanks (about 6" deep). He is able to pay his mortgage, but buy no means are they wealthy.
You must also keep in mind that you need to be able to take some hits. He has a five gallon bucket full of chalices that he ordered at one point a few years ago. Most as big as a dinner plate that were either DOA or dead within a day. He lost over $3000 in one day.
You must also keep in mind that you need to be able to take some hits. He has a five gallon bucket full of chalices that he ordered at one point a few years ago. Most as big as a dinner plate that were either DOA or dead within a day. He lost over $3000 in one day.
If you want to make a million dollars in this sort of enterprise- start with 2 million. I find it had to believe that important CEO types would commit money without a proper business plan in place. Not trying to harsh by any means- but there is a reason why there are so few success stories.
I jus found this thread and have been looking to setup a prop tank or two, on a much smaller level of course... I'm looking at adding a 30 and 40 breeder into my system, getting another t5 fixture or two, and concentrating on adding nicer corals to my system... finding nice frags and smaller colonies I want for my own collection, and basically splitting them after introduction, and having one to grow out for my display and another one or two peice to grow out and frag off of in the previously mentioned breeders... my goal is not to make the money some of u talk about some making, but to maybe get it up to on a yearly average, taking in before expenses, maybe 500 to 1000 dollars month or so by the end of the first full year in, after maybe another 6 months of collecting, growing a bit more to have a better start, and preparing... this would pay all expenses, equipment needs, adding to my collection and what I have to sell off, and perhaps even a couple extras like gas for my car and maybe the insurance... at this point, the idea of paying for the hobby is the dream and goal, and the thought of having a bit leftover (a small profit) to pay for everyday non hobby stuff would be pretty sweet to me...
I know most of you will be much more established than I am in this hobby with your knowledge, and setups, and connections, but I wana thank u guys, this thread is a huge help to my own thoughts and ideas...
I know most of you will be much more established than I am in this hobby with your knowledge, and setups, and connections, but I wana thank u guys, this thread is a huge help to my own thoughts and ideas...
Pallobi that is pretty ambitious income, but good luck.
You are going to need enough volume to supply your customer base, and enough products to keep their buying interest. No one can supply everything. Re corals, the higher volume and higher priced lighting units as you probably know are needed for the stony corals.
In livestock everyone needs to offer customers some bread and butter items. Some fancy ones and some popular ones. Sit down and figure out what you like to raise and and make a list of what you can do and how many that you can produce. And go from there building up your sale stock.
Decide who your customers are. And get acquainted with them. Know who your competitors are and get acquainted with them, DONT get into pricing wars with them and let them know that you wont. Nobody wins in mutual throat cutting. Get a reputation as a square shooter.
Myself I much rather deal with one or two distributors, or LFSs then a couple hundred retail customers, you cant compete with the big box stores. Dont even try.
NEVER give credit, cash only at all times.
Think these things over and memorize this thread, I am guestimating it will take you 2-3 years to get set up and to develop a customer base. Visit all of the propagation places that you can and copy freely.
Just my 2 cents before inflation. Good luck.
You are going to need enough volume to supply your customer base, and enough products to keep their buying interest. No one can supply everything. Re corals, the higher volume and higher priced lighting units as you probably know are needed for the stony corals.
In livestock everyone needs to offer customers some bread and butter items. Some fancy ones and some popular ones. Sit down and figure out what you like to raise and and make a list of what you can do and how many that you can produce. And go from there building up your sale stock.
Decide who your customers are. And get acquainted with them. Know who your competitors are and get acquainted with them, DONT get into pricing wars with them and let them know that you wont. Nobody wins in mutual throat cutting. Get a reputation as a square shooter.
Myself I much rather deal with one or two distributors, or LFSs then a couple hundred retail customers, you cant compete with the big box stores. Dont even try.
NEVER give credit, cash only at all times.
Think these things over and memorize this thread, I am guestimating it will take you 2-3 years to get set up and to develop a customer base. Visit all of the propagation places that you can and copy freely.
Just my 2 cents before inflation. Good luck.
That is more very helpful stuff. Thank u much... that income thought is a bit hopeful I know, but I was shooting for middle of the road... recently got an order of some nice things with some nice lineage, and more on the way, so hopefully I can keep that up, and in a year or two, have some really nice peices... so hopefully that will help a bit in the coming years in many ways, given I can prove to keep my livestock alive and flourishing, I have a lot to prove to myself... and A LOT more research and learning in my future... again, Ty
jeff@zina.com
New member
This is kind of key in a small operation, specialization. You don't want to be the guy with two milleporas, five acros, a blastomussa, five frogspawn and 9 zoanthids for sale. Nobody will take you seriously and you'll only get trade value at the LFS.
But if you get to be known as the king of Royal Pink Dragon Ear zoanthids and can offer them in one or two polyp frags, 30 polyp colonies and zoa garden rocks covered with 100 or more polyps, with continuous availability, then you'll have steady, routine sales. And income.
If you do one thing incredibly well, it's a lot easier than doing 80 things somewhere near average. One type of setup, one type of care. And unfortunately, one product that may go from incredibly hot to a way over-saturated market in a few short months. Be prepared and have a plan.
Jeff
Allmost
New member
jimmy frag
New member
you cant compete with the big box stores. Dont even try.
you cant compete with the big box stores. Dont even try.
oh yes you can compete with the likes of Big Als and others. this is what keeps me selling and is paying my mortgage and more. dont you dreamers give up hope. start small, be smart, it will pay off. i nice size acro brought in from indo can be fragged in to 30 odd pieces and sold at a low cost of $10 per frag. the mother colony goes back on the rack for 8 months untill its sizeable to frag again. 30 frags at $10 a piece is $300. 5 boxes of acro @ 24 pieces per box. 120 acroporas turned into 3600 frags @ $10 per frag. is $$36000$$ and you can evan argue that there will be death or color loss on some. ok 50% didnt take or lost color. thats still $18000 for 1 week of fragging. giddy up boys. there is money to be made. count the money in your tanks....been doing this for 3 years now.
you cant compete with the big box stores. Dont even try.
oh yes you can compete with the likes of Big Als and others. this is what keeps me selling and is paying my mortgage and more. dont you dreamers give up hope. start small, be smart, it will pay off. i nice size acro brought in from indo can be fragged in to 30 odd pieces and sold at a low cost of $10 per frag. the mother colony goes back on the rack for 8 months untill its sizeable to frag again. 30 frags at $10 a piece is $300. 5 boxes of acro @ 24 pieces per box. 120 acroporas turned into 3600 frags @ $10 per frag. is $$36000$$ and you can evan argue that there will be death or color loss on some. ok 50% didnt take or lost color. thats still $18000 for 1 week of fragging. giddy up boys. there is money to be made. count the money in your tanks....been doing this for 3 years now.
Allmost
New member
Very true ....
as long as it pays for itself and possible ppl I have to hire to do maintenance, I am fine lol
I dont plan on starting a frag shop though ... I hear your logic, but I think I can make more money from fully grown colonies
at least that is the plan for now ...already making the warehouse ... and cycling tanks/vessels ... also went for a pod and live food factory style ... hopefully seahorse operation can be done in the same place .
Allmost
New member
not true, and I do not see your logic ... but of course some capital is needed to get things off the ground ....
second point .... not if you are one of the CEOs
Hi Jimmy
I see that fragging to be something to add to the regular line, not be the regular line, where I am at in the last five years we have had 3 winters when we had power out for more then 3 days. So an operation of growing frags needs a standby generator. Which is just good sense. What you are suggesting does work, Tropicorium and Inland Aquatics are living proof, but Dick Perrin has a number of other items besides frags.
Different strokes for different folks, good luck with the fragging.
I see that fragging to be something to add to the regular line, not be the regular line, where I am at in the last five years we have had 3 winters when we had power out for more then 3 days. So an operation of growing frags needs a standby generator. Which is just good sense. What you are suggesting does work, Tropicorium and Inland Aquatics are living proof, but Dick Perrin has a number of other items besides frags.
Different strokes for different folks, good luck with the fragging.
jimmy frag
New member
Very true ....
as long as it pays for itself and possible ppl I have to hire to do maintenance, I am fine lol
I dont plan on starting a frag shop though ... I hear your logic, but I think I can make more money from fully grown colonies
already making the warehouse ... and cycling tanks/vessels ... also went for a pod and live food factory style ... hopefully seahorse operation can be done in the same place .
let me know when your ready to start with the seahorse, i can set you up with as many and what ever color you wish that are cb
