pvc bottom need feedback
- Thread starter thesaent14
- Start date
tbone28 thanks for the input.... so what size holes for drains did you decide on and how many? did you drill additional holes for the returns or are you piping that in over the tank? Are the holes at the base or the wall?
having a brainfreeze--who is AO?
Did you decide on the Starphire? Are there disadvantages to the Starphire?
zoa
having a brainfreeze--who is AO?
Did you decide on the Starphire? Are there disadvantages to the Starphire?
zoa
tbone28
Active member
AO has a good reputation on this forum. I would have gone AO or Miracles if I didn't choose A.G.E.
I have 4 holes drilled inside my overflow - so yes, I do have holes drilled in the PVC, albeit not for a closed loop system.
(2) 1.5" drains - Hayward bulkheads
(2) 1" returns - Hayward bulkheads
The other thing to keep in mind - plan for the future. My current plans include Tunzes for flow. I may tire of the look in the future, and choose to go with the CL. With the PVC, i'm set.
naka
New member
I emailed Aquarium Environments regarding PVC bottom and here's the reply.
"Thank You for all your interest and appreciation for our products. A few
points I would like to clarify. The aquariums are constructed by Acrylic
& Glass Exhibits (A.G.E.) out of Dallas, TX they are a subsidiary of
Fish Gallery/Aquarium Environments (retail/service), A.G.E. sells
wholesale to stores and service/installation companies. Aquarium
Environments sells retail to the public.
The P.V.C. bottom has been a great success for us and our customers for
various reasons, mostly for the reef aquarium enthusiast, but for others
as well. Hole placement can be maximized with P.V.C. without the fear of
cracking, no more need for starboard on the bottom, a solid continuous
bottom on larger tanks as opposed to a multi layered glass bottom, the
material can be C.N.C.'d so custom hole patterns can be achieved i.e.
Hayward bulkhead hex heads can be recessed giving no need for a wrench
to tighten on the inside. The bottom edge is routed to offer a "saddle"
for the glass to sit in and gives a double sealing edge. On larger
aquariums we get inside for service and this offers a safer option. On
site drilling is possible.
As far as how the process is accomplished, this is definitely a secret
as you do not see others using this method of construction. What I can
say is that it the process of adhering glass to dissimilar materials
(acrylic,pvc,stainless steel, powder coated metals, concrete, etc.) has
been around for a long time, but it has always been industry secrets
(not just in the aquarium industry) windshield to metal car frame. In
the aquarium industry the process has been around since the 70's. The
main problem that most manufactures have is that for this process to
happen and hold long term it needs to have not only proper adhesion
products but the materials need to be very exact in their machining. We
C.N.C. both the glass and the P.V.C. this gives a very exact edge for
the silicone to adhere the two materials together. Most manufacturers
polish the front panel so it looks nice but the rest of the glass is
left rather raw or in thinner glass sizes the material is seam cut
(scored) and hand sanded. Not very exact!
The silicone is another key component we would not use Dow Corning 999
as the tensile strength is not there to support our construction methods.
All this being said the key components to our method of construction are
tolerances, adhesives, and preparation. This is also a reason why our
price is usually higher than most, much more time and effort is placed
in the construction process and this adds to the cost however the end
result is obvious."
"Thank You for all your interest and appreciation for our products. A few
points I would like to clarify. The aquariums are constructed by Acrylic
& Glass Exhibits (A.G.E.) out of Dallas, TX they are a subsidiary of
Fish Gallery/Aquarium Environments (retail/service), A.G.E. sells
wholesale to stores and service/installation companies. Aquarium
Environments sells retail to the public.
The P.V.C. bottom has been a great success for us and our customers for
various reasons, mostly for the reef aquarium enthusiast, but for others
as well. Hole placement can be maximized with P.V.C. without the fear of
cracking, no more need for starboard on the bottom, a solid continuous
bottom on larger tanks as opposed to a multi layered glass bottom, the
material can be C.N.C.'d so custom hole patterns can be achieved i.e.
Hayward bulkhead hex heads can be recessed giving no need for a wrench
to tighten on the inside. The bottom edge is routed to offer a "saddle"
for the glass to sit in and gives a double sealing edge. On larger
aquariums we get inside for service and this offers a safer option. On
site drilling is possible.
As far as how the process is accomplished, this is definitely a secret
as you do not see others using this method of construction. What I can
say is that it the process of adhering glass to dissimilar materials
(acrylic,pvc,stainless steel, powder coated metals, concrete, etc.) has
been around for a long time, but it has always been industry secrets
(not just in the aquarium industry) windshield to metal car frame. In
the aquarium industry the process has been around since the 70's. The
main problem that most manufactures have is that for this process to
happen and hold long term it needs to have not only proper adhesion
products but the materials need to be very exact in their machining. We
C.N.C. both the glass and the P.V.C. this gives a very exact edge for
the silicone to adhere the two materials together. Most manufacturers
polish the front panel so it looks nice but the rest of the glass is
left rather raw or in thinner glass sizes the material is seam cut
(scored) and hand sanded. Not very exact!
The silicone is another key component we would not use Dow Corning 999
as the tensile strength is not there to support our construction methods.
All this being said the key components to our method of construction are
tolerances, adhesives, and preparation. This is also a reason why our
price is usually higher than most, much more time and effort is placed
in the construction process and this adds to the cost however the end
result is obvious."
thesaent14
In Memoriam
some one here have to know the secret if so please send me a pm to help me out with my build i promess i won't say a word
naka--thanks for posting their response...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tbone28
yes, they ship to california. I'm in CA. You have to buy through your local LFS though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that's a bummer---I thought you could order direct. If we have to place the order through the LFS, the price goes up even further.
ok, new question....for those of you who are doing closed loops through the bottom......obviously this is a BB....how do you make sure the water is dispersed nicely and that there is not the appearance of too much hardware coming from the floor that needs to be hidden by rockwork?
anyone have pics of their pvc bottomwith holes before the tank was filled?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tbone28
yes, they ship to california. I'm in CA. You have to buy through your local LFS though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that's a bummer---I thought you could order direct. If we have to place the order through the LFS, the price goes up even further.
ok, new question....for those of you who are doing closed loops through the bottom......obviously this is a BB....how do you make sure the water is dispersed nicely and that there is not the appearance of too much hardware coming from the floor that needs to be hidden by rockwork?
anyone have pics of their pvc bottomwith holes before the tank was filled?
tbone28
Active member
Regarding a higher price if purchased through LFS, the $200-$300 price difference over AO & Miracles was the difference between me purchasing my A.G.E tank through my LFS versuses purchasing direct from AO or Miracles. The Miracles tank actually would not have been dilvered to my home. It would go to a shipping depot, which means I need to rent a truck with gate to pick up (probably another $100-$200)
Here's a pic of another forum member with A.G.E tank and drilled holes on bottom, countersunk for Hayward bulkheads, which is what I"m doing as well.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10048542#post10048542
spazz
New member
well i did a little research on this subject a while back. the only 2 ways i found to bond pvc to glass is either with uv cured bonding agents or hot adheasion bonding agents. its alot like the stuff they use in the auto industry to bond windshields into cars. its not silicone. its a special bonding agent that needs to be heated in a special oven to a very hot temp. then its applied with a standard calking gun. but there is some primers that are needed to bond specific materials to other types of materials. that is why you see the pvc overflows have a small black primer stripe on them to get the adhesive to adhear to the pvc properly. i wouldnt not recoment trying to diy a tank with a pvc bottom. in the end you may end up with a flood in your house.
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