Quarantine rightly

Actually, flushing can work to keep the infection level low - low being the key word. It is a method employed by some commercial fish farms. But you need ocean access for it. It isn't a feasible method for ornamental fish, and for sure not a feasible way to get fish ich free.

Far easier and more effective methods would be hyposalinity or TTM or ideally both combined.

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Hello and thanks for answers. Of course there will be a uv and also a Vliesfilter with thick vlies about 80g / m2 which also take parasites out of water.

Grüße Torben

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A vliesfilter will be useless for capturing and neutralizing parasites like Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium. You would need a diatomaceous earth filter to capture all stages of those. But due to the density of the filter media you will not be able to get high flow rates.

The UV sterilizer you would need has to be an industrial model or one of those batteries De Jong is using.

Still, I fail to see any benefits of that approach. It's expensive, complicated, unreliable and stressful to the fish.

Also keep in mind that fish can capture the parasites with their gills where they then can settle in, so a high flow speed may reduce the chances of parasites settling on the fish in a targeted approach, but it will never be able to prevent infection entirely.

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I saw this method of double bottom at LFS in Japan. They use a plastic grid ca 5 cm or little less above the bottom of the tank in conjunction with strong UV sterilizer. The trick is that the cysts fall down through the grid and hatching parasites are not able to swim upstream if the water flow through the tank is adjusted appropriately. So theoretically, the parasites have no chance to get into contact with the fish. I is certainly an option to keep the infection in subclinical form (without visible symptoms). But I am not sure (rather skeptic), if it´s sufficient to completely eradicate the parasites in the system.
 
Hello guys
I started tank transfer method (TTM) for Zebrasoma rostratum because they are full of Cryptocaryon. I transfer fish every third day. I use plastic tanks which are easy to clean and dry because they can turn around. Glass is to heavy and to sensitive. In this moment it works great. I am afraid for transfer fish because stress but 5 min after transfer fish eat pellets again. So stress and clean/dry is not the problem I expected. Cryptocaryon gone already after 3 transfer. Yesterday I done the fourth and I will do 5 for security. I'm not sure but I think two fish have Oodimium. What is your favorite method to eliminate this disease?
Also I have a microscope. But I have no idea how investigate these fish. I scratch with the glass over the skin of the fish? Cryptocaryon for example would not come to the glass by scratching the skin I think. I ordered a book to learn more but I waiting two weeks already so I hope somebody can explain me by simple words because my English is bad.

Also in quarantine for TTM
2 Apolemichthys arcuatus
1 Apolemichthys xanthopunctatos
2 Naso elegans
1 Naso vlamengii
6 Hemitaurichthys polylepis x zoster hybrid
1 Zanclus cornutus
1 Equetus punctatus


https://youtu.be/CrZl4rs9qBQ


Grüße Torben

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I employ the following qauarantine protocol and results are quite promising, it also works for wrasses, pomacanthids etc.:

I use bare bottom glass aquariums just with an airstone in them. It is based on tank transfer method with some modifications to be even more effective.

1. At arrival, after drip acclimation and few hours of rest I give the new fish a formalin dip (1 ml of fresh formalin per 1 gal of water) for 30-45 min. But only if the fish are in good condition, with no open wounds.
2. First 3 days in first TTM tank with just normal seawater (fresh mix or from noninfected display system). If some doubts about ammonium accumulation, add few drops of ammonia remover. Do not overstock the quarantine.
3. another formalin dip with few drops (4-5 per gal) of malachite green in a bucket for 45 min. under heavy aeration (formalin causes oxygen depletion in the water).
4. transfer to tank 2 - again with just airstone and seawater, plus I add 1 pill of Entizol (250 mg of metronidazole) per 30 l (8 gal). In this case I add no other additives, because bad or unproven combination of chemicals may kill fish quickly
5. after 2-3 days (depending on water quality in quarantine tank) I give another formalin + malachite green dip
6. transfer to tank 3 with metronidazole
7. repeat this for a minimum of 5 transfers and the fish should be clean.

Few comments:
Formalin dips are just for fish in generally good condition, avoid them in case of open wounds or heavy stress. Othervise they are well tolerated.

Use new seawater for the dips, not water from quarantine or water with any other medication.

In case of new fish, I usually start to dose metronidazole after few days, when the fish are already eating. It is sufficient to keep fish in metronidazole continuously for ca 7 days. So it is not mandatory to dose it during the whole quarantine period.

Water with formalin should be pre-aerated for at least 10-15 min. prior you put the fish in.

Repeated formalin dips will kill external pathogens like flukes, bacteria, fungal agents, Brooklynella. They simply disinfect the surface of the fish.

TTM and metronidazole will break the cycle of the two main protozoan parasites (Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon) in synergistic way.

Although it may sound complicated, the only difference from original TTM is the formalin dip (+ malachite green) between transfers and metronidazole added to water in the quarantine tank.

When you finish the TTM, you should place the fish in a disease free environment, otherwise the problems start again.

In case of arrival of wery sensitive fish with no visual symptoms, I keep it for first 2-4 weeks in a refugium-like quarantine tank for acclimation and to get it on food. After this period I run it through TTM just to be sure it is not a disease carrier.

Some fish like chaetodontids or pomacanthids often suffer from infestation by intestinal worms. To fix this, you may change metronidazole for praziquantel in the last transfer. But that is useful for new fish, not for the situation discussed in this thread.

I did this many times with fish like Pseudanthias, Oxymonacanthus, Paracheilinus, Pomacanthus, Chaetodon etc. with good results (means clean fish and minimal mortality). Obviously, if fish are initially in poor condition, you will have some losses whatever you do. Unfortunately, this is also my experience with some shipments from DeJong.
 
Thanks for advise Luke. I google a few things and discuss with friends.

I think Dejong works with some medication already. When new fish arrives at De Jong they put in "yellow" water. I think it contains antibiotics. Do you think metronidazole again is helpful for fish? I heard about problems with the bowel using antibiotics?

I have problems with maybe fungus at end of pectoral and causal fins. Your modification for TTM should be helpful.

Grüße Torben

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Hi

I have a method similar to luke's version

It is the same ad normal cycle of 4 ttm but it employs formalin dips between each transfer.
It also employs adding metronidazole for the first 3 transfers and ciprofloxacin for the first 2 transfers.

I also add prazi in transfer #2 and #3


it should bring same results with less wor.

formalin will not kill all the cyst on the fish on the first dip, but the idea is that each transfer should reduce the number of cysts. be the 4th dip (4th transfer) you should ideally be clean.
 
Torben,
when I talked to Richard at DeJong´s facility few years ago, he told me they recommend Esha Trimarin for preventative treatment in quarantine. It has the same yellow color as the water in their quarantine section and it is a dutch product. So I guess they use the same stuff. I don´t know the exact content, but according to color I think it is based on acriflavine.
I tried Trimarin and it did not work for me (waste of money). I think if the pathogen survives one treatment with the same drug at wholesaler, it has probably some degree of resistance agains this drug.
 
Hello Luke,
Richard and Steven are my talking partners at Dejong ;)
I bought eSHa-ndx, eSHa-Trimarin and Aquarium Münster Protomor. I forget this products already but I have one liter of every product. Do you think I can use one of this products for 45 min stop before going in next tank?

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Grüße Torben

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Back in Germany I tried this stuff, but it never did anything to cure a sick fish. I had far better success rates with prescription antibiotics, baths, the usual chemicals or just doing nothing.

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Thanks guys,

@Luke: Formalin 37%?
Metronidazole 2 times for 3 days during TTM? For Ammonium remover JBL Denitrol is possible or something special? Never heard before.

@naraku: Luke also use formalin between every transfer. Also combinated with melachit green. You use a second antibiotic and Luke also use melachit green, right?

Grüße Torben

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Yes, formalin is ca 37-40 % stock solution of formaldehyde. But use fresh one, not from a bottle opened years ago, because it may oxidize to formic acid, which is much more toxic for fish.

In your case I would recommend Metronidazole for 3 (or even 4) transfers, as you deal with symptomatic infection. That means at least for 7 days. And be prepared to transfer your fish even after 2 days if the water gets a bit cloudy.

Regarding your previous post, I don´t use any commercial products with unknown content to treat my fish anymore.
 
Hello
Here are the only products I amble to order quickly

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2000mg Melachitgrünoxalat per 100ml
And 30% Formalin

1.25 ml Formalin per gallon or 3,75l
4 till 5 drops melachit green per gallon

Right

Grüße Torben

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I dry my equipment by a big electrical air heater. So after one day can't find any drops of water. I do it one more day. So it is sure that all zyst are destroyed?

I thought about cooking the running system by electrical heater. Which temperature I have to rise to kill everything and how long.

Or I can do it with freshwater?

What's about Oodimium? TTM also works? I transfer fish all 2 till 3 days



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The product you show (for koi fish) already contains malachite green, so you don´t need to add it separately.

Yes, after 48 hours of drought the cysts are supposed to be inactivated according to the literature.

I flush the tanks with freshwater, then I let them dry out without any visible water drops for at least 24 hours. If I have any doubts, I rinse the tank with chlorine bleach.

The protocol also works for Amyloodinium and actually for almost all common external infections, with exception of some bacterial infections. For that case you should use different antibiotics (not metronidazole).

There are some studies on thermosensitivity of Cryptocaryon. The higher is the temperature, the shorter exposition is needed. But I don´t remember the exact numbers. You would need temperature above 40° C.
 
Thanks Luke

The pictures show two different products. The second is melachit green 2000mg per 100 Liter Melachitgrünoxalat. This is can use for to add 4 till 5 drops per gallon?

What antibiotics for bacteria infections you would suggest me?


Grüße Torben

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