Rant about Photos of Corals for Sale

[tkeracer619]

If it helps... I still sometimes pull the trigger when I know I shouldn't and some of those corals came in crappy. Some of them developed into amazing stuff.

I once purchased a bunch of pest infested brown sps for $100. half of them died, a quarter stayed brown, and the other 4 turned into nice corals. Over the years one of them turned amazing.

It was the most top right coral in this image and housed my pair of fancy coral gumdrop coral crouchers (they are hiding in the above pic).

 

[Stolireef]

Very much for real. I've made money taking pictures for people and know how frustrating this can be (I also have a degree in it and have been a photographer since 1988).

What makes it worse in this hobby is that there are a million different lights you can have over the corals when taking the pictures, and there is no telling what light the end customer will have. I use to run some very warm color temp halides that made everything pretty much brown. I switched to LED's recently and now things are glowing like crazy and I have bright blue mushrooms.

And I'm not saying that sometimes a vendor might intentionally do something to the photos. I am saying however there are a TON of factors that could make the coral look substantially different in your tank than what it did in pictures online that absolutely are not intentional and perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to throw someone's livelihood under the bus.

While I certainly agree that different lighting will strongly influence how a coral appears, it doesn't forgive vendors that show colors that will not appear in the vast majority of tanks. Most reef tanks run between 10K and 20K lighting with some blue supplement. The vendors that show corals that will only appear under actinic only lighting or at least under the most extreme blue lighting are simply being dishonest. In my experience, it has never been an issue of monitor calibration or basic photographic technique. It has always been a basic misrepresentation by the vendor of the color and intensity of the coloration. Usually, this is done by extreme manipulation of the lighting, the white balance on the photo and some level of post-processing enhancement and it's just wrong.

As I noted earlier, there are some vendors that post truly representative photos and they are the ones that get my business. I've also had only good experiences with fellow hobbyists (about whom I've researched before making purchases).

 

[Stolireef]

If it helps... I still sometimes pull the trigger when I know I shouldn't and some of those corals came in crappy. Some of them developed into amazing stuff.

I once purchased a bunch of pest infested brown sps for $100. half of them died, a quarter stayed brown, and the other 4 turned into nice corals. Over the years one of them turned amazing.

It was the most top right coral in this image and housed my pair of fancy coral gumdrop coral crouchers (they are hiding in the above pic).

Your tank is amazing. Just beautiful.

 

[ravenmore]

While I certainly agree that different lighting will strongly influence how a coral appears, it doesn't forgive vendors that show colors that will not appear in the vast majority of tanks. Most reef tanks run between 10K and 20K lighting with some blue supplement.

Actually I have no idea where bulb manufacturers come up with their kelvin ratings. Daylight in most places is around 6000k (it can vary a bit) which to our eyes is usually interpreted as crisp white. Check out this article for verification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature . Anything higher than that should be blue, but I've had 10,000k bulbs that were white to slightly yellow, so the bulb manufacturers are pretty much lying industry wide, lol. I demand indignation over that damnit! They're ripping us off! And actually the color temp of the tank includes all illumination at a given time, including actinic/blue, so your tank will be at a higher color temp with them on than with them off.

The vendors that show corals that will only appear under actinic only lighting or at least under the most extreme blue lighting are simply being dishonest. In my experience, it has never been an issue of monitor calibration or basic photographic technique. It has always been a basic misrepresentation by the vendor of the color and intensity of the coloration. Usually, this is done by extreme manipulation of the lighting, the white balance on the photo and some level of post-processing enhancement and it's just wrong.

As I noted earlier, there are some vendors that post truly representative photos and they are the ones that get my business. I've also had only good experiences with fellow hobbyists (about whom I've researched before making purchases).

A few bones to nit pick at here.

1. First of all almost all photographs are manipulated (unless you shoot RAW and present the RAW image which most people don't do as they are huge and not very pretty). If you shoot in jpg at all for example what comes out of the camera is enhanced to some degree. Sharpening, contrast, saturation and other variables are all adjusted. Period. So where is the limit at calling foul? I agree there are some that look like it was ran through a photo editing program and really pumped up for further enhancement and that is shady, but all digital photos you see are pretty much enhanced to some degree (and btw most of the photos of my tank are shot in RAW and then I run them through Lightroom. I try to get it close to what my eye sees but there is some interpretation by me on that of course). Oh and I should also mention some aquarium lighting freaks digital imaging sensors the hell out sometimes - even really good ones like my Nikon full frame stuff.

2. Shocker, people are going to present the best image possible for anything they sell. If they think it looks best under Radiums they're going to shoot it under that light. It's opinion if you think this is bad or not. That is what it is.

Last point I'll make in this waaaay too long post is that folks seem to consider corals a product that goes through some kind of quality control and forget they are living organisms that, just like any other, might change or adapt to a different environment. I've had corals brown up, and I've had corals color up when they got in my tank.

 

[zoomonster]

Just got this sponsored ad on FB....

At that's exactly the problem... If I thought that picture was real I would sell my wife to buy that mound of zoo's :crazy1: The comment on that picture says it all... saturation much?

 

[Stolireef]

Actually I have no idea where bulb manufacturers come up with their kelvin ratings. Daylight in most places is around 6000k (it can vary a bit) which to our eyes is usually interpreted as crisp white. Check out this article for verification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature . Anything higher than that should be blue, but I've had 10,000k bulbs that were white to slightly yellow, so the bulb manufacturers are pretty much lying industry wide, lol. I demand indignation over that damnit! They're ripping us off! And actually the color temp of the tank includes all illumination at a given time, including actinic/blue, so your tank will be at a higher color temp with them on than with them off.



A few bones to nit pick at here.

1. First of all almost all photographs are manipulated (unless you shoot RAW and present the RAW image which most people don't do as they are huge and not very pretty). If you shoot in jpg at all for example what comes out of the camera is enhanced to some degree. Sharpening, contrast, saturation and other variables are all adjusted. Period. So where is the limit at calling foul? I agree there are some that look like it was ran through a photo editing program and really pumped up for further enhancement and that is shady, but all digital photos you see are pretty much enhanced to some degree (and btw most of the photos of my tank are shot in RAW and then I run them through Lightroom. I try to get it close to what my eye sees but there is some interpretation by me on that of course). Oh and I should also mention some aquarium lighting freaks digital imaging sensors the hell out sometimes - even really good ones like my Nikon full frame stuff.

2. Shocker, people are going to present the best image possible for anything they sell. If they think it looks best under Radiums they're going to shoot it under that light. It's opinion if you think this is bad or not. That is what it is.

While your facts are absolutely correct, I couldn't disagree more with your conclusions (we must be reefkeepers :wildone.

Yes, kelvin ratings are, in most cases, just silly. That said, if I have a 400W Radium over my tank, and the seller claims to be using the same bulb, I should see at least similar colors. I'm not in any way saying the rendition will be precisely what was shown by the vendor but it should be at least close.

Yes, corals do stress when shipped and that can impact colors significantly but I should at least be able to see a hint of what was shown by the vendor.

Yes, vendors should show their wares in the best possible light, but not when almost nobody would run lights on a reef tank in that manner.

Finally, yes, virtually all digital (and for that matter film) photographs are processed and enhanced. But, when that processing and enhancement (a) literally changes the color of the coral or (b) falsely portrays the true color intensity, that just misrepresentation at the most basic level.

 

[Mr.C]

I guess you could also say the same for fish, only it's the opposite. If you take a photo of a fish under actinic lighting then those bright yellows and oranges turn pretty black and blah looking.

It could be worse tho.. When was the last time you went to a restaurant and got a meal that looked remotely like the photo on the menu? It would be like you ordering a bright orange hammer coral and being shipped a hammer head shark. Lol

 

[johnike]

I know! I know!
:lol:

 

[zoomonster]

Removed per request~dc

Personally I would proceed with a credit card (or Paypal) chargeback against the company for "not as advertised". And of course mention how when you complained they blocked you from the website and anything else relevant. The more complaints/chargebacks these companies get the better. Not only does it affect their ability to do CC/Paypal transactions but they pay a chargeback penalty.

That's really the only way to punish dishonest vendors other than speaking out on forums. Problem is, for business in general, even the worst of companies that are legitimately bad are lashing out at the truth and suing customers for bad reviews.

 

[Collinrb]

I've found a way that seems to work pretty well for me as far as buying online goes. Keep in mind I have no actual photography experience, but have plenty of coral purchasing...

I like to look at all the thumbnails and compare the colors of the egg-crate. Typically I notice that the egg crate below different frags is slightly shaded R,G, or B. And in the thumbnails it becomes very apparent when they are trying to "bring out" a certain color.

 

[ReeferKimberly]

I've found a way that seems to work pretty well for me as far as buying online goes. Keep in mind I have no actual photography experience, but have plenty of coral purchasing...

I like to look at all the thumbnails and compare the colors of the egg-crate. Typically I notice that the egg crate below different frags is slightly shaded R,G, or B. And in the thumbnails it becomes very apparent when they are trying to "bring out" a certain color.

I do that too, it is very helpful!

 

[footballdude2k3]

This is why there are only a couple of online places I will buy from, and everything else is in person

 

[Fish Biscuit]

I like that DD puts what lights their corals are under. I can tell you that what I have bought from them in the past looks completely different under the Hydras vs MH. Not bad, still beautiful livestock, but different colored.

I am very picky about corals & can't find anything I like that's not on DD or is imported by my work acct. I've been on the search for a pectinia & found some locally under Vegas but the color looked drab to me. Not ready to take a chance that it will look nicer in my tank for a $100 frag.

On the upside, my client & I both have the same lighting so I know if I want one of the LFS to order from them for me the pictures posted will be what it will look like in my tank.