Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield's

Aquarist007

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Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield's

I am curious as to where yeast fits in on the nitrogen cycle. Since it requires an aerobic environment then I am thinking it oxidizes fish crap to ammonia or ammonia to nitrites?

Here is the explanation I received
Re: Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes from Orca Labs promises denitrification free of Redfield’s

Other companies are trying to use bacteria to do the work for them. What makes these cubes so unique? I am using yeast cells to do the work and not bacteria. Yeast is so much easier to work with and they are so easily manipulated. This is how I am able to break / bend the laws of nature like Redfield's Ratio. What I have done there is I used a nano particulated substrate that is titanium based. The yeast are able to take the titanium into the cells and they basically become "Cyborg" yeast. Half living biological organism and half synthetic nano particulated inert metal. Put the 2 together and you have an organism that behaves like a synthetic chemical, but, reproduces like a living biological organism. It also has a very basic "Artificial Intelligence" built into it because all organisms are programmed to survive. If there is enough nutrients to support the colony, they will grow the colony to that size, if the nutrient levels drop, the colony will die off to a size that can be maintained. This "Artificial Intelligence" control system is what makes the cubes last so long. Unlike pellets that get eroded through micro-abrasion in the reactors, cubes only erode through yeast cell consumption. This means that the product will grow or shrink according to your needs and they do this automatically without you needing to do anything and without any waste. Very basically put, within 11 days the cubes become self aware and start learning what your needs and habits are. After 11 days they assimilate the colony to what you need them to be. Unlike other products where we have to adjust ourselves and our systems to what that product requires in order for it to work, this is a product that will become what you and your system needs it to become. To do this with bacteria is almost impossible and you have to be really smart...and I have never been that smart to begin with! This is also the reason that the cubes need so much oxygen (apart from the gentle scrubbing action it provides) because yeast cells need oxygen, they do not operate very well under anaerobic conditions. This is why I stress the oxygen part so much and also where people make the mistake of using reactors to operate this product in. As long as you can feed oxygen into that reactor you will be fine, but, all reactors that are produced do not have this option. This was when the bomb method was born.
 
I don't get it. What is the titanium for?

Normally with say biopellets or carbon dosing, you are growing bacteria and then skimming them out as a form of nutrient export. Just like growing chaeto or caulerpa. It's not that they are converting nutrients into some form that magically goes away. They are converting it into biomass that we are then removing.

This thing seems to assume that the yeast will just keep growing and growing until they have consumed it all. But we are constantly adding nitrate, so would they grow forever? Would we need to harvest them?
 
I don't get it. What is the titanium for?

Normally with say biopellets or carbon dosing, you are growing bacteria and then skimming them out as a form of nutrient export. Just like growing chaeto or caulerpa. It's not that they are converting nutrients into some form that magically goes away. They are converting it into biomass that we are then removing.

This thing seems to assume that the yeast will just keep growing and growing until they have consumed it all. But we are constantly adding nitrate, so would they grow forever? Would we need to harvest them?

I don't get it either David

Here is some more info on them

Orca Labs Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes are an interesting take on solid carbon dosing. A lot of our readers are likely familiar with biopellets and their assorted variations, but these appear to be completely different. Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes were originally invented in South Africa, and come in two variations; the Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes and the Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes Titanium. The first of the two is the most similar to conventional bio-pellets, but is claimed to contain 400% more usable carbohydrates and is suppose to work much quicker (days vs. weeks). The Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes Titanium is also a carbon source but it is a (the first) Redfield ratio resistant carbon source, meaning that if your main problem is battling Nitrates with no Phosphates in the system the Bio-Cubes Titanium will still function properly. Like the regular Bio-Cubes the Titanium variation is also claimed to contain 400% more usable carbohydrates, and is likewise suppose to start working much faster.

For those that are not familiar with the Redfield equation, or its application to carbon dosing in aquariums, might be a bit confused about the exact difference between the regular Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes and the Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes Titanium. The Redfield equation is the balance between carbon, nitrogen and phosphate in plankton and bacteria/yeast. The ratio is 106:16:1 with very small variations among different bacteria and plankton. Considering that plankton and marine bacteria get their carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate from the water column, the lack of one of these nutrients will stunt or stop growth. So if there is no Phosphate in the system, bacteria will not grow propely and absorb the nitrogen like intended. It might seem counter intuitive, but for nitrogen export there thus needs to be a small amount of Phosphate. In conventional carbon sources that is, the Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes Titanium somehow works even without the right balance of Phosphates in the system.

Another cool thing about these cube-pellets beside their much higher amount of carbohydrates, is the way these Bio-Cubes are used. The Bio-Cubes do not require a reactor, and users are actually discouraged from using reactors unless they install a venturi for air intake. Instead these Nitra-Guard Bio-Cubes can be used by creating what the creators call a “bomb”, which is in essence just a media bag with an airstone and the Bio-Cubes. Each Nitra-Guard container comes with its own media bag, so you’ll just have to add the airstone and you can simply drop the bag in your sump. Top off the Bio-Cubes as needed every couple months, and you’re good to go (Orca Lab’s recommends four, but the exactly number obviously depends on your system)."
 
I don't get it either David


For those that are not familiar with the Redfield equation, or its application to carbon dosing in aquariums, might be a bit confused about the exact difference between the regular Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes and the Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes Titanium. The Redfield equation is the balance between carbon, nitrogen and phosphate in plankton and bacteria/yeast. The ratio is 106:16:1 with very small variations among different bacteria and plankton. Considering that plankton and marine bacteria get their carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate from the water column, the lack of one of these nutrients will stunt or stop growth. So if there is no Phosphate in the system, bacteria will not grow propely and absorb the nitrogen like intended. It might seem counter intuitive, but for nitrogen export there thus needs to be a small amount of Phosphate. In conventional carbon sources that is, the Nitra-Guard Bio-cubes Titanium somehow works even without the right balance of Phosphates in the system."

This may be for Heterotrophic bacteria! This is why sulfur based denitrification is more reliable, easier to use and most of all safe. Autotrophic bacteria as Thiobacillus denitrificans do not need an external carbon source and the The Redfield equation has no influence.
Commercial products have to find a way to the costumer. Titanium?
 
... break / bend the laws of nature...
...they basically become "Cyborg" yeast...
Half living biological organism and half synthetic nano particulated inert metal....
..."Artificial Intelligence" built into it...
...the product will grow or shrink according to your needs and they do this automatically without you needing to do anything and without any waste...
[/I]

I think I saw these replicators on Stargate SG1...

...I have never been that smart to begin with!
[/I]

Just wanted to take this part out of context for fun. Sorry for all the ...'s
 
There are plenty of insane, nonsensical product claims in this hobby, but what is recopied above is some of the craziest I've seen in at least a little while.

1) Yeast are not becoming cyborgs.
2) Nitrate assimilation (what the person actually means to discuss) has nothing to do with denitrification.
3) Dentrification is not driven by the Redfield ratio any more than it is driven by the weather on Jupiter.
 
well crap! I was planning on lowering my vodka dosage! lol

but do they actually work? THAT is the question!
 
To answer your question, yes it works and it works well!
Dont know if i may post links to other sites, but this product is getting rave reviews in South Africa.... Yes, we actually have reefers here amongst the lions and elephants.... And it seems we have a few scientists here too...
When the first few reefers tried the orca biocubes (not the titanium version) there was quite a stir and it headed in the same direction as this thread seems to be going... A few more people tried it, probably because it was a lot more affordable than setting up a pellet reactor and took up a lot less space than a dsb. As more people tried it, they all discovered that it works! Measurable drops in NO3 and PO4. Guess it was just a matter if time before news spread to distant shores.....
 
The clip I originally posted was from the marine biologists that created the pellets. In all fairness to him he was attempting to give a layman's answer when questioned how these work.
I still am mondering where yeast fits in on the nitrogen cycle. Knowing this would answer a lot questions about the feasibility of this product
 
I dont think we are dealing with th nitrogen cycle as we have come to know it, I.e. aerobic and anaerobic, electron donors and receptors.... Assimilation rather.
 
Yes, there is some pretty kooky stuff in that product explanation, but, wow, quit a bit if immediate doubt on this thread...
I am looking forward to hearing more personal experiences with this product.
It sounds very interesting and by the sound of that review from SA, I'd say pretty promising as well...
 
I dont think we are dealing with th nitrogen cycle as we have come to know it, I.e. aerobic and anaerobic, electron donors and receptors.... Assimilation rather.

have not been able to locate any info stating that yeast assimilates nitrates in cell metabolism?
 



Very nice review!

http://www.orcalabs.co.za/?page_id=33

"How it all works

Bacteria consume the high carbohydrate source found in the BIO-Cubes and form a biomass that absorbs nitrates and phosphates from the water in the aquarium. This biomass is then skimmed out with a protein skimmer or is consumed as a food source by corals and clams.

When culturing bacteria, 2 of the most important factors that will determine the size of the colony are surface area and food source. BIO-Cubes look like small open celled sponges giving the product a massive surface area. BIO-Cubes also has 400% more biologically available, insoluble polymer carbohydrates than any other product in the world. These 2 factors create conditions that are perfect for culturing and sustaining large bacteria colonies required to effectively remove phosphate and nitrate from aquariums. It is these 2 factors that have made Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes the world’s best carbohydrate based nitrate removing media. Independent tests that were performed in real world scenarios revealed that BIO-Cubes had the ability to reduce nitrates from 60ppm down to 5ppm in under 2 weeks while competing products claim to only start working after 2 weeks!"


So, according to this, it is just another bacteria method as in carbon dosing like pellets, or liquid?

How is the Titanium cube stuff any different?
 
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I am not about to say this to put anyone on the defensive, but with such a new product and only a handfull of people trying it out and experimenting with it, wouldn't it be fantastic if the creator of the product could say a few things or answer a few questions about it..
I can only assume that he/she or someone he/she knows is informing him about this thread..
Since reef central is (I can only assume!) one of the largest reef oriented audiences in the world..
Bio cube creator! Are you out there?? :)
 
I would guess that the use of Titanium is to act as a catalyst or a chelator. That means that there is a chemical reaction that is outside of a natural breakdown process to drive the conversion of the compounds and chelating the Nitrogen.

This is speculation from my background in Chemistry and pharmacology 15 and 20 years ago. In other words, pure conjecture.

However, this does sound REALLY appealing.
 
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