Recent attitudes in the Anemone and Clownfish forum

[bues0022]

I've noticed a bit of a disturbing trend lately in this forum, and instead of calling out individuals I wanted to address this issue across the board. The trend that I've been seeing a lot lately is the attitude towards "my way or the highway". This hobby is very dynamic, much more so than most give credit for. What works in one person's tank may or may not work in another's. To say then, that an anemone MUST be kept under certain lights because that is your experience is doing an injustice to the other options. Instead, say - this is how I'm keeping species ____, but also be willing to accept other ways of doing things. 20 years before I was even in the hobby, people were keeping anemones under PC bulbs. Now when someone asks about PC bulbs, the general response is "no way, you need MH" - instead of what I see of a more politically neutral answer of "it's on the lower end of lights these days. People have been known to keep them alive for some time with PC's, but with lower light be sure to feed and upgrade your lights when you can".

Realize that not everyone can run out and buy a new tank, get new lights, or the newest controller because you say they must in order to keep an animal alive. Try to help those with the current equipment they have if at all possible - again remembering that it's OK they are trying to do things differently than what you say.

Commonly, people ask if their tank is big enough for a certain anemone. Most often, if one is asking, it's too small. BUT, you don't need to blast the OP and tell them to run out an pick up a 210 tonight or it's all lost. I currently have a Haddoni in a 30 cube. The tank has a small footprint (about 18"x19"). I realize that FULL GROWN Haddoni's get much larger than my tank can handle. I also know that the water quality is an issue on smaller tanks. But guess what? I don't have an ATO, don't have a skimmer, do water changes at nearly 4 weeks, and the nem is very healthy and growing (despite being put in the tank 2 weeks after moving - used old rock and sand). I'm not saying this to say that I'm better than anyone, but to portray that all of this flies in the face of conventional wisdom. IT IS POSSIBLE! It is possible to keep nems in tanks smaller than what liveaquaria says. It is possible to keep a pair of tank bred clowns in your tank and have them host. It is not nearly as one-sided as many make it seem. Just because you may read about the "recommended" requirements, think critically about what they are trying to say and what each means, and you will then be able to determine what is a hard-fast rule, and what can be modified based on the health and size of the creature.

Let's try to be more open, understanding of other people's setups, and help everyone understand the grayscale of keeping our animals alive. If we don't, we're no better than any bad LFS employee telling someone they must have MH for a BTA to live....

 

[OrionN]

Anemone are difficult animals to keep. They are difficult because of rigid requirements. It is possible to do things outside the recommendation but the aquarist must know what he is doing. For inexperience reefkeeper, it is best to stick to the general recommendations for species. Each of us from our experiences my have somewhat varies in our recommendation.
I keep Magnifica in a 18 inch cube tank but I know how to keep him from clibing into the 4 PH, pump or overflow. I got a small one to start with and keep him from growing. I would not however, recommend a new anemone keeper to keep a Magnifica in the same tank with 4 PH.

 

[bues0022]

Agreed there are certain things that are not good for beginners, but your statement also proves part of my point: a healthy specimen is actually quite hardy. Also, you are keeping "difficult" nems in a small tank, showing the wide range of acceptable tanks actually possible.

Just from the way you wrote your reply you understand what I am trying to say -acknowledging "this U's what I do, but I wouldn't recommend it". You

 

[Meggie2409]

+100 I agree! Sometimes I am actually afraid to post something in this forum due to the fact that I do things different than most on RC but it works for me I wanna add that anemones and everything else in our tanks have been alive and beating the odds for thousands of years with out our help. lol I know I just wanna make my tank as happy and healthy as I can. But am always open for suggestions!

 

[greech]

Well said.

I'm fairly new to the C&A forum but from what I can tell, there are obviously a number of people on the forum that have a great deal of passion for these animals and only want the best for them. Conveying experience and opinions without letting that passion leak through can be difficult especially online where tone cannot be distinguished. I would also add that I think most people starting out a SW tank have the idea of having a clown/nem pair in their head as the centerpeice and unfortunately there are plenty of LFSs out there that are happy to sell them the pair to go into their week old tank. This is where I see the passion and frustration really kick in from the experinced folks. Yes, one should be responsible for doing a bit of research but tagging someone for being told "they'll be fine in your tank" by those that should be "experts" in the hobby is definitely not going to help. I know I would be mad at my LFS if they sold me something I could not care for properly and coming here for help only to get beat up more might drive me away from the hobby completely. Basically, at that point you're on an island.

Even though I am new to the forum, I feel I did a fair amount of research leading up to my recent purchase of a Haddoni. From that resrach, I have tried to help where I could while also trying to convey that I have limited experience myself but admittedly I may not have conveyed that enough.

I would also like to take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone that posts in this forum. The information and feedback posted here has been a tremendous resource for me. I look forward to reading more about everyone's experineces!

 

[jt_milstead]

Very well put. Although I have not had an experience like this in one of my posts, but i do see this on here often.

 

[Conrad25]

I understand where you are coming from. I know that I was one of the people that stated bluntly how I felt about what was going on. I'm not someone that plays by the rules at all and over the years of keeping fowlers and now keeping mixed reef tanks, I have learned a lot and done my fair share of things that would not be considered "the way you should do this".

I have had no skimmer, no sump and barely any filtration. Than back in the day used to keep a bubble tip anemone alive with just a few PC's. Also have went against odds by keeping things like an angel in my reef tank with total success. I have had plenty of success doing things other people would give me the wide eye at or thumbs down.


The main reasoning that I was so blunt is because he/she asked for our help and completly ignored it. Than because he/she didn't get the answers they wanted to hear in the first thread, made another thread which was not needed. Than to top it all off just went off and bought more fish after the first few died without asking themselves why or listening to us telling him why? Than he goes and releases the anemone and fish into the wild and now one or both are out of there norm. So my true opinion is that sometimes the truth might hurt, but it may be for the best and they most likely know it and that will make them stronger in the hobby to research or check things out before just going out and putting things into a pico tank that have no business being in something so small.

This is all IMO, after you stated to calm down. I left the thread alone

 

[garygb]

I completely agree with you too Bues. I actually have kept H. magnifica for years back when that or MH were pretty much the only options. Those anemones are still alive and well, though I've upgraded to MH and T-5s. Lighting and size of the tank is only part of the picture, knowledge and maintenance practices can't be under emphasized.

 

[bues0022]

Lighting and size of the tank is only part of the picture, knowledge and maintenance practices can't be under emphasized.

You summed up my point very nicely. I would like to see this forum become less hostile with strict equipment requirements, and show that through increased information sharing will help us all in the long run. "collective knowledge" is always greater than the individual.

 

[SwampyBill]

Many valid points in this thread. Thanks for starting it, Bues. I know I came off harsh in a recent newbie's thread & after careful consideration, I tried to go back & edit. When I found out I couldn't, I apologized to the OP on this public forum & in a PM. While I could've used more tact or patience in stating my beliefs, I stand by the gist of my opinion. I've never considered myself a know-it-all or an 'elitist', as stated by someone. I guess my recent posts could be miscontrued & should've been stated differently. The only suggestions I've ever given have been what's worked for me or by fellow reefers I know & who's knowledge I respect. I've loved this hobby for years, & feel passionately about the animals in my care. I'll be using the IMO phrase much more & temper my posts with more tact as well.

+1 on Conrad25's 3rd paragraph, too...

 

[garygb]

I said: "I actually have kept H. magnifica for years back when that or MH were pretty much the only options. Those anemones are still alive and well, though I've upgraded to MH and T-5s."

I meant to say I kept my mags under PCs for years before upgrading to MHs/t-5s.

 

[bues0022]

I kind of figured that's what you were trying to say

 

[Victor1046]

Agreed good post

Agreed good post

I thought everyone got together on these forums to help one another. Let's not forget we are newbies!

 

[OH GOD]

I just love this stuff, everyone puts out great info. Even with all the :hammer: of one another on what works for them.

 

[bues0022]

I appreciate everyone's positive feedback to this thread. When I finally decided to type it up, I thought the results could go one of two ways: The positive direction it did, or I could have been blasted and flamed. I really enjoy this forum, and enjoy reading and learning about all kinds of anemones and clownfish. Maybe I've been biased because I want to see this, but it already seems to be more positive feel around here.

 

[davocean]

I thought everyone got together on these forums to help one another. Let's not forget we are newbies!

Yes, agree, and I don't think any experienced peeps come on here w/ the intent of bumming someone out.
Most of the time I see people w/ these "new ways of doing things" are new to the hobbie, and they come on asking for advice because something isn't working out.
And yes, we do give generalized info that is the safest and most conservative advice.
I remember being a newbie here, and arguing how yes you can have multiple pairs/mix maroons w/ occs in a small tank, yada yada...
As time goes on, I realize it's not a bad idea to listen to people w/ more experience for LONG TERM SUCCESS.
But I agree we should try to say it in a nice way, give our opinion/advice and let it go from there, and not try to force our thoughts/theories onto others.

 

[dc]

It's really a boardwide problem. Unfortunately people take blunt advice as an attack. Then others feel they need to retaliate.

It's great advice, and I wish more would follow it, unfortunately some just like to stir the pot.

 

[BairdimusPrime]

love this post!! i get nervous to post on the boards sometimes out of a fear of getting ripped apart, but i take all advice collectively and use it to what i feel is the best i can accomodate my tank to... love the post

 

[jeff@zina.com]

I'm often blunt (and I've been slapped by the moderators for it...) but the bottom line is you're mostly right. My first anemone was 30+ years ago and it was fine. I had a 10 gallon tank with the requisite under gravel filter, a percula clown, banded coral shrimp and a spotted grouper (panther grouper now...). It was an "Atlantic" anemone and did okay with eating shrimp pellets for over a year, under a shop light two feet above the tank. Salinity was checked with a floating hydrometer (still use one) and if it was in the green it was okay.

Today I'd be cursed for every single facet of that original salt water aquarium.

Jeff

 

[elegance coral]

I'm looking at the names in this thread, and i see some very knowledgeable and experienced hobbyists. I don't think the advice given to someone new to the hobby should be based on what these experienced hobbyists are capable of, though. One of the most important factors that determine success or failure, is the ability to recognize a problem and know how to respond correctly, and in a timely fashion. This only comes with experience. I believe that telling a new person they need a good sized tank and good quality lighting, to keep an anemone, is good solid advice. I wouldn't attempt to walk across a tight rope 100' in the air. Even though I know it's possible and I've seen it done. I lack the experience and knowledge to make it across safely. Sure, I might get lucky, but the odds are against it. LOL.