ReefKeeper vs Apex

[Dr. Reef]

i have asked lots of people for the differences and pros and cons of both units.I decided to email DA and Neptune for their input and their side of the story. Naturally both will claim to be the best. but here is what i found out and lets see what other have to say.
this is the same question i put forward to both manufacturers.


"Hi
i have been using a controller for several yrs now. another brand have come up in several forums online that i write/read on. i use controller to minitor temp, ph of tank,ph of cal reactor, control lights. wavemaking and sump. also have several alarms and checks and balances. ATO system with float switches.
i have a very complex question for you. why should i change over to ur brand?
what is the key difference that you would sell me on to buy this unit?
thanks
Note: i am seriously looking into ur brand but i dont know what i am buying. as
of right now both units look/seem same except for 2 different names."

this is the responce i got from DA (with in few mins)
Never heard anything from them yet after this autogenerated email.

Thank you for your message. We have received it and will get back to you as soon as possible.

You may want to save your case's tracking ticket for future reference: 680**********

We are implementing a upgraded support tracking system here at DA. Please help us help you by using the "Reply" feature of your email system when corresponding on this case. If you have a new issue please send a new email so that we can better serve you.

Thank you,

This is the responce i got from Neptune
I sent them email and got back a reply in less than 5 min.

There really is no comparison between the Apex and the RKE; the Apex
surpasses the REK in just about every aspect. Here is a list:

- High Quality Display with excellent clarity/contrast.
- Costs less.
- Easy to use configuration wizards.
- Most expandable controller - up to 240 modules, thousands of outlets,
hundreds of probes.
- backwards compatible with older AquaController accessories.
- More features - Some include:
more flexible/sophisticated configuration
season lighting control
season temperature control
- Integrated Ethernet (Optional $$$ on RKE)
- Only controller with monitoring & Control & configuration on the webserver
- Monitoring only on RKE with optional Ethernet attachment.
- Only controller with web browser based configuration.
- XML support
- multiple head unit displays with full user interface - not possible on RKE
- multiple sound alarms.
- Includes 6 digital inputs vs 2 on RKE.
- Galvanic Isolation on probes result in accurate readings. RKE has no
isolation and has major interference issues.
- Includes built-in variable speed pump control. Not possible on RKE
- Optional support for Ecotech Marine's Vortech pumps with WXM module. Not
possible on RKE
- Includes built-in 0-10V light dimming. Extra on RKE
- Can name outlets, and modules - not possible on RKE
- ORP input is modal - can be ORP or pH input on the Apex - not possible on
RKE
- Default outlet state on Apex. On RKE when a communication error occurs all
outlets just shut off
- State of the Art 32 bit processor - not an 8 bit slow processor like RKE.
- 5 times faster than competitor's controllers
- 16 times more code space - much more expandable for future enhancements.
Not code space limited like the RKE
- 16 times more storage space for datalogs than the RKE. Up to 1 years worth
of data can be saved in the Apex
- Bus interconnect can be starred or daisy chain configuration.
- Apex base unit has power failure detection/alarms/control - not possible
on RKE.
- EB8 has power failure detection/alarms/control - not possible on RKE
- Don't have to disassemble controller to perform firmware upgrades like on
the RKE
- Reliable/High Quality buttons (No unreliable capsense)
- Lowest cost per outlet control options
- Robust communications protocol Bus Interface with error correcting. RKE
uses I2C and has communications issues.
- EnergyBars have built-in AquaBus hubs - On RKE must purchase add-on.
- Auto setting of clock from internet - not possible on RKE
- Day light savings time support - not possible on RKE
- Built in virtual outlets on Apex. On RKE must purchase a PC1 for virtual
outlets.
- Cable lengths can be much longer than RKE.

 

[Dr. Reef]

i will update if DA ever replies back.
judging from the speed of service, claims of people for DA's slow customer service comes true here and Neptune's faster response indicates to me they are more/well prepaired for such hostile comparisons.
i personally use RKE but for several reasons not happy. wanted to compare the 2 units and see which one comes out better.
feel free to throw in ur opinions please.

 

[Orcrone]

Comparing RKE to Apex is a great way to start a debate. :celeb1:

Personally I've owned an Apex Lite for about 9 months and I'm very happy with it. Can't comment on the RKE as I've had no experience with it.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

... and Neptune's faster response indicates to me they are more/well prepaired for such hostile comparisons.

I've sent Curt (Neptune Systems) an e-mail at 11:00PM on a Sunday evening to ask a question about my Apex. Received a reply back at 11:05PM. This, along with your experience, indicates to me that Neptune is faster and more/well prepared to respond to customer inquiries.

 

[tgray3]

I've sent DA several emails. The last one was an email last Sunday with a question for clarification on a program step and I heard back from them Monday afternoon. My experience with their customer service has been pretty good.

 

[Demonic]

I have had both. After getting tired of not getting responses for a few days with DA, I made the switch over to the Apex and couldnt be happier. I send an email, and Curt responds within minutes. I had a problem last night with my Apex not working with my network. He gave me his personal phone number and walked me through it. I would never go back. Customer support is amazing.

 

[ccalabro]

I've had the RKL system for over a year now and have to be honest and say that if I had to do all over again, I would definitely go with Neptune. Right from almost the very beginning, I've had several problems with the RKL system. I can't say that customer service has been bad, in fact they've been very responsive. One of the issues that Neptune mentions in their pitch, the Galvanic Isolation issue--its real and it alone could be sufficient reason to go with Neptune.

 

[Ricardo_Jorge]

RK is a awesome controller, but the APEX rocks!
They seems to be very similar, but one of the most difference between them is the web controller. With the RK you can´t control through the web.

Hug

 

[Captainfester]

not for nothing i sent neptune a msg regarding not have internet near my tank and the need for a wireless option. i got a email back in less that 1 min ( seriously ) with a work around and a link to the product ( third party) that the support guy uses in his house.

 

[Reef_Matrix29]

I love my Apex and am glad that I went with Neptune over the RKE a little under a year ago. However, I do wish that the Apex's display unit looked a bit more up to date like the RKE does or perhaps even a touch screen display. I'm sure in time they will either make a new display unit or go away from them altogether with the ability to have apps on your phone and web browser.

 

[James77]

i will update if DA ever replies back.
judging from the speed of service, claims of people for DA's slow customer service comes true here and Neptune's faster response indicates to me they are more/well prepaired for such hostile comparisons.
i personally use RKE but for several reasons not happy. wanted to compare the 2 units and see which one comes out better.
feel free to throw in ur opinions please.

My experience with DA is that often enough emails will gon unanswered for days or never at all. Then they say "we don't know what happened".....which works fine for a week until you figure it out.

There are a couple pros that I like about the RKE over the Apex. One is the display...although I rarely use it or look at it, I prefer DA for their color changing and appearance. The other are the 2 PC4s as opposed to the EB8, its more useful, although Neptune can easily offer packages that have 2 EB4s.

Other than those 2 things, there is no comparison between Neptune and DA. Curt replies to emails in minutes sometimes....and even weekend nights....but he always responds no matter what. None of the wwaiting days for emails to be returned and wondering if they even got it. I had to service my Apex base unit...the whole trunaround time form intial contact to receiving it back was 8 or 9 days. The same thing with Digital Aquatics took weeks. Just to get the RA number was a week of no reply emails from a couple differnet people. Once they got it, I forget exactly how long it took. It was long enough where I had to try and contact them several times to see what was going on with the simplest of repairs. One positve note on that....it was a buss cable port on the head unit that broke.....my fault and I told them that, but they did repair it at no charge.

DA finally just achieved Tunze control....something Neptune has done for several years. Vortech control....Neptune has had it over a year. DA? No comment on future modules. Their salinity probe issue would have driven me insane. It is a decent controller.....but you need some serious patience to wait for features and service.

 

[mdt178]

I'm sure in time they will either make a new display unit or go away from them altogether with the ability to have apps on your phone and web browser.

Exactly what they've done with the Apex Jr. Display unit optional/Interface via smart device or PC. For those who still want the display it's $100.

 

[Dr. Reef]

bump

 

[HndMafia]

I have had both. After getting tired of not getting responses for a few days with DA, I made the switch over to the Apex and couldnt be happier. I send an email, and Curt responds within minutes. I had a problem last night with my Apex not working with my network. He gave me his personal phone number and walked me through it. I would never go back. Customer support is amazing.

^^Last time I put it in my own words, I received an infraction...so I'll just agree with the above!!!

 

[Demonic]

^^Last time I put it in my own words, I received an infraction...so I'll just agree with the above!!!

You received an infraction for posting your past experience with a company, then your opinion on how it went. I highly doubt that was all of the story.

 

[HndMafia]

You received an infraction for posting your past experience with a company, then your opinion on how it went. I highly doubt that was all of the story.

Well, I was extremely frustrated with DA and I didn't choose my words carefully...yes that is all of the story

 

[lucidvtec]

DA has the worst customer service i have ever delt with..i have been dealing with issuses for months now...one thing after another....i just fowarded emails to the online retailer from between myself and DA

pretty much DA told me if i wanted a advaced return on their product i was supposed to go to their site..pay for another completle system..then send in my original system with my proof of purchase.....at my own expense.....then if they deem the product is a warrenty issue they may refund my purchase

these units that i have bad are less that 6 months if that...and the ALC module is only a month old.....

i have tried to get DA on the phone a few times....i left countless messages....sent emails...most of the time up to a week for a response...i one point i had to have the online retailer get ahold of DA for a response

when i first got my RKL system it was a pain to setup...no instuctions...i had to flash each item individuallly just to get the system to turn on...had to spend some time reading in there forums about features that dont work if you use the my reef software

so right away when i got my system i noticed on the PC4 that one of the led lights never shut off but the channel ...after a week and half the online retailer got ahold of them and they actually did a advaced RA...no issues

bout a month after that...ph probe went bad.....took another week to get that issue and contact worked out....again advanced RA...no charge to me.

bout a month or so after that...channel 3...a channel i barely ever turned out...wasent turning off....i did tons of trouble shooting.....channel is perm stuck on....again spent over a week back and forth with DA....they refused to do a RA...even if i paid for shipping...i explained it was still working for my lights and temp control...and i didn't wanna be without those functions for days...even offered my credit card info

so they sent me a shipping label....real nice of them...HA

work had gotten super busy so i lived with the bad channel

bout a month ago i dived into the DIY led with the meanwell drivers stuff...built a nice fixture

bought a ALC module and 2 blue lunar pods...got it all setup...took a day or two to figure out the RKL will only ramp the light for a span of 90 min...not much of a sunrise/sunset

the lunar "moonlights" were working...it was a good first week

the bam...i noticed the lunar pods werent working anymore....so i did a ton of troubleshooting...pretty much the ALC is not working properly...even in the menus...i have tried the newest software...factory reset..tested the Leds..wires...lots of stuff....its a bad UNIT....still controls the meanwell drivers fine...just not the lunar pods

oh ya i forgot to mention....during the build of the led....my PH probe went bad again...same thing..read error...second time in 5 months


so a week ago i sent a email to DA...pretty much begging for a advaced RA...explained all the issues i have had and the HOURS i have spent into trouble shooting there defective equipment

just today i recieved the email telling me to go purchase new equipment and send in the original stuff and i may get fully refunded

are they outta their minds???? how could i ever trust a company like that with more of my money???? no way


i really hope their is a way just to return the product...i'm hoping the online retailer can step in and let me turn it in and just pay the difference so i can get the neptune

DA's customer service is by far one of the worst companies i have ever dealt with......i fowarded all the emails between myself and DA to the online retailer...figers crossed

BOO DA

 

[psteeleb]

I've have products from both companies. I have had issues with both and the customer service has been about equal.

I would add that the APEX is more for those who are comfortable with self programming around multiple variables, where the Reefkeeper is more for those that want something preprogrammed with some "œbuilt in" variables. Although both companies like to brag about their product you really need to decide what you want in a controller and go from there. The APEX list of advantages is long because of the reason I stated, they built it for those that are comfortable with programming around lots of variables and therefore provide lots of modules and variables. On the flip side having that much flexibility can get some people in a lot of trouble if they don't know what they are doing.

 

[jcolletteiii]

I am more than a bit put off by the Neptune people. So it turns out that there was a bug in the initial firmware that shipped out with many units. This firmware may have been responsible for the head unit going dark, or the LED backlight going dead. This happened to me after about 9 months of use, but because I had ordered it and let it sit before setting up, it was 2 months past the warranty end. So, it would have cost me $30 plus shipping for them to fix it. However, if you as the manufacturer know there is a problem, if you are responsible for the problem, you should step up and fix that problem, not charge your customers to fix it. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have looked closer at DA, Aquatronica or profilux.

 

[Dr. Reef]

ok guys i got a response from DA to my email with same question as posted in my first post. here is their reply.

I'll give you a little information on the ReefKeeper system, and hopefully you can determine what specific combination of things you'll need to suit your purposes.

One of the primary advantages of the ReefKeeper system is that it is designed to be completely modular and expandable. You can start out with the most cost-effective $119.99 system, and add any additional Modules as needed. At its core, the ReefKeeper system is a head unit (like the RKE or RKL) and a PC4 power strip, providing 4 individually controllable, programmable outlets. Each PC4 is capable of handling 15A/1800w total, 8A on Channels 1 and 4, and 3A on Channels 2 and 3. In addition, we offer numerous Modules which provide anything from lunar simulation (the MLC), controllable dimming (ALC), switch inputs, pH, ORP, Temp and Salinity (SL1 and SL2). The NET Module will set up a webpage that is viewable from within your network (or externally with some additional setup) and can be configured to display graphs of your various parameters, as well as send text and email alerts. With the latest NET Module firmware, you are also able to change the Mode (On/Off/Auto) of any Output, as well as edit the Functions of any Channel. The ReefKeeper Lite has a 4 Module limit, while the ReefKeeper Elite is capable of adding up to 63 Modules, giving you almost limitless expansion to suit your needs.

For your system, you will have to determine how many outlets/Channels you will need to control and run everything, as well as deciding which (if any) modules you would like to add. Be advised that we also offer our PC1 and Expansion Socket Modules specifically to enable increased power handling, for higher current devices like chillers or large lighting systems.

I hope that all makes sense. If you have any additional questions or need clarification, please don't hesitate to ask. In addition, I suggest you check out our Support Forum, where you can find feedback and advice from current users of the product.

Thank you,

--
Digital Aquatics Support Team