Regenerating GFO

[SimonSKL]

Matt,
+1!

 

[mike810]

after regenerating my gfo. do i have to dry it or can i just store it wet and use it wet?

 

[SimonSKL]

I store mine wet.

 

[mike810]

thanks

 

[rob.mwpropane]

So after some math (rounded on some), and some headache, I think I have a game plan. I just want to run it by everone first. (Great thread by the way, thankyou to all those involved that could make this possible!!) If I only have a 65 gallon tank, and I'm using 1 tablespoon HCGFO per 8 gallons, 8 tablespoons in all, then I believe that equals 118.4ml of GFO.(I'll say 1/4 of 500ml per instructions). If this is correct then:

Step 1: About 1/2 gallon (2L) ro/di mixed with 1.6ml muriatic acid for 4-6 hours

Step 2: About 1/2 gallon (2L) ro/di mixed with 80 grams sodium hydroxide fo 96 hours (4 days)

Step 3: About 1.6 gallons (6.25L) ro/di water into drain... more like 2 gallons to be on the safe side

Sorry for the lengthy stuff, but I am neither a chemist, or a math teacher, I'm just a guy that doesn't want to melt his gfo reactor, or kill his fish/coral. Now if you want to talk propane tanks, that's a different story...

 

[mike810]

I don't think you need the muriatic acid step. Just take a pinch of your GFO to be regenerated and toss it in a cup of vinegar. If it fizzles due to calcium build up then you need to do a vinegar bath first before you regenerate.

I skip the vinegar bath and regenerate right away. (no calcium build up on GFO) I believe this is how it work. HTH

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Yeah, I don't think that I would need the 1st step either, but I have plenty of muriatic acid laying around to recharge di so I figured what the heck. I think I have all my math right, the only thing I'm missing is a p04 test. I actually just plan to rinse a little more than the instructions call for. That's not ideal, but....

Has anyone had any problems regenerating gfo to date?

 

[mike810]

I rinse my GFO after the regen with about 2-3 gallons of RO. drain and store wet, when I do a water change. I change out the GFO then run an additional 5 gallons of tank water through the reactor into a bucket to further rinse it.

 

[gary faulkner]

Do you dump the Sodium Hydroxide solution after just one regeneration. And do you neutrilize it first?
Thanks

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I don't know if the sodium hydroxide can be reused, I would assume not. It's going to be loaded with p04, and would probably make it twice as hard to recharge the gfo. And I can't imagine neutralizing it. I mean if you wanted to, you could use muriatic acid, or vinegar... but sodium hydroxide is a drain opener. Just use it on your least productive drain and kill two birds with one stone.

Disclaimer: Now with all that said, I am not an expert, and my best science is based off of what is written here, and good old fasioned "edumacated" guesses. So I hope someone else will chime in and say I'm right... or wrong....

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I rinse my GFO after the regen with about 2-3 gallons of RO. drain and store wet, when I do a water change. I change out the GFO then run an additional 5 gallons of tank water through the reactor into a bucket to further rinse it.

Mike, you say you rinse with 2-3 gallons RO. How much gfo are you recharging at a time? And then your saying you clean the reactor with an additional 5 gallons of old tank water... I'm assuming to get rid of any leftover lye? When you say you drain and store wet, do you just pull your cartridge out and let it sit in the sink to drain, and then dump gfo into a freezer bag/container or something of the sort? Do you ever notice a smell like from bacteria in the bag after sitting wet for some time? What kind of gfo, and how often do you change/recharge?

See this is why I research and ask dumb questions, I'll get halfway through a project and be like "***t" what am I supposed to do with this! I can read all the instructions in the world, but very few have real world experience in them. Thank you so much for your time.

 

[HighlandReefer]

I don't know if the sodium hydroxide can be reused, I would assume not. It's going to be loaded with p04, and would probably make it twice as hard to recharge the gfo. And I can't imagine neutralizing it. I mean if you wanted to, you could use muriatic acid, or vinegar... but sodium hydroxide is a drain opener. Just use it on your least productive drain and kill two birds with one stone.

Disclaimer: Now with all that said, I am not an expert, and my best science is based off of what is written here, and good old fasioned "edumacated" guesses. So I hope someone else will chime in and say I'm right... or wrong....

I agree, reusing it would not be productive since the oxidative strength would be greatly reduced once used.

From the MSDS sheet for Sodium Hydroxide:

"CHEMICAL FATE INFORMATION: The pH effect of sodium hydroxide in water is
naturally reduced by the absorption of atmospheric carbon dioxide. This reduction is also effected by
dilution with water and by the natural acidity of a given water body. There is no degradation of sodium
hydroxide in waters, only loss by absorption or through chemical neutralization."

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I agree, reusing it would not be productive since the oxidative strength would be greatly reduced once used.

From the MSDS sheet for Sodium Hydroxide:

"CHEMICAL FATE INFORMATION: The pH effect of sodium hydroxide in water is
naturally reduced by the absorption of atmospheric carbon dioxide. This reduction is also effected by
dilution with water and by the natural acidity of a given water body. There is no degradation of sodium
hydroxide in waters, only loss by absorption or through chemical neutralization."

Yeah, like he said.... sounds much better that way. :spin1:

 

[mike810]

Mike, you say you rinse with 2-3 gallons RO. How much gfo are you recharging at a time? And then your saying you clean the reactor with an additional 5 gallons of old tank water... I'm assuming to get rid of any leftover lye? When you say you drain and store wet, do you just pull your cartridge out and let it sit in the sink to drain, and then dump gfo into a freezer bag/container or something of the sort? Do you ever notice a smell like from bacteria in the bag after sitting wet for some time? What kind of gfo, and how often do you change/recharge?

See this is why I research and ask dumb questions, I'll get halfway through a project and be like "***t" what am I supposed to do with this! I can read all the instructions in the world, but very few have real world experience in them. Thank you so much for your time.

I'm recharging around 1-2 pounds at a time. When I say drain and store wet, I'm referring to after rinsing it with RO. I drain excess RO water then store wet, When I pull it from the reactor, I drain excess tank water and dump it into a 5G bucket till I'm ready to regen.

Yes I run it through 5G of tank water minimum to get rid of any residue left over from the regen process. As for the bacteria smell, are you referring to the GFO that you just pulled from the reactor or the GFO that you just regen?

I do notice a funk from pulled GFO from reactor when storing for sometime.
I'm using HC GFO from BRS. I regen every few months or when I'm almost out of GFO. HTH

 

[rob.mwpropane]

No that clears it up. You wait a couple months and save expired gfo. Then regenerate per instructions. Rinse the gfo with ro water, rinse the reactor with tank water. As for the smell, I was reffering to gfo that you had regenerated and stored wet for some time. I don't think that that would cause a problem, but maybe you could finish rinsing after 5 gallons of tank water (organics) with a gallon of ro? Unless you havn't had problems using funky smelling gfo, in that case who cares... Whats the longest that you have stored it for?

 

[Matt_Wandell]

You can send the used NaOH solution down the drain no problem. For big facilities like us that are putting 300g down the drain at one time the logistics and paperwork are a nightmare, but for home where you're doing a couple gallons, no sweat. Just make sure to rinse it with plenty of cold water.

 

[gary faulkner]

You can send the used NaOH solution down the drain no problem. For big facilities like us that are putting 300g down the drain at one time the logistics and paperwork are a nightmare, but for home where you're doing a couple gallons, no sweat. Just make sure to rinse it with plenty of cold water.

Matt,

Will this be okay with my private septic system. I have a 1000 gallon septic tank with about 200 ft. of drain field. I am a little hesitant about dumping it into my system and even more aprehensive about handling such a strong lye solution.

Thanks

 

[Matt_Wandell]

Matt,

Will this be okay with my private septic system. I have a 1000 gallon septic tank with about 200 ft. of drain field. I am a little hesitant about dumping it into my system and even more aprehensive about handling such a strong lye solution.

Thanks

Good question--I have no experience with septic systems. My gut says that it would not be a good idea.

If you neutralize the NaOH with HCl (muriatic acid) before you send it down the drain you are essentially creating an NaCl solution with a lot of PO4. The PO4 shouldn't cause any problems, but the NaCl might. The recipe in that article calls for 320g of NaOH in 8L of water. Depending on how much muriatic acid you need to neutralize it, the final solution that goes down the drain could be anywhere between about 23ppt-58ppt salinity. Reef tank water is about 33-35ppt. So it'd be like putting ~4 gallons of tank water down your drain.

Do you currently send your tank waste water into your septic system? Are they able to handle salt?

 

[gary faulkner]

Good question--I have no experience with septic systems. My gut says that it would not be a good idea.

If you neutralize the NaOH with HCl (muriatic acid) before you send it down the drain you are essentially creating an NaCl solution with a lot of PO4. The PO4 shouldn't cause any problems, but the NaCl might. The recipe in that article calls for 320g of NaOH in 8L of water. Depending on how much muriatic acid you need to neutralize it, the final solution that goes down the drain could be anywhere between about 23ppt-58ppt salinity. Reef tank water is about 33-35ppt. So it'd be like putting ~4 gallons of tank water down your drain.

Do you currently send your tank waste water into your septic system? Are they able to handle salt?

I have never dumped salt water down the drain, so I don't know if it will handle it or not.

Thanks for your response.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I have never dumped salt water down the drain, so I don't know if it will handle it or not.

Thanks for your response.

So I talked to someone about the septic tank/ lye/ saltwater mix. Saltwater would have no ill effects on a septic system, lye would cause your beneficial bacteria to die off, but they would always come back. So if you were to dump it(lye), you could just neautralize it with muriatic acid. I know that these chemicals are harmful, but so are alot of things in this hobby. Our lights emit harmful rays, kalkwasser is harmful if breathed in, c02 tanks can leak, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen the "I'll just plug one more thing in this outlet" syndrome. It's amazing what we do for our glass tanks, risking life and limb!! I think if you decide to do it as I have, just go slow and be careful. Good luck and Happy Reefing...