Remote DSB? Do or Aviod?

[bigzman]

Hello,

I have a 29 gallon tank 30 x 13 x 18 I was thinking about drilling and turning it into a remote deep sand bed setup to my 220 gallon display mixed reef. I had great experience on my 110 gallon LPS tank for 3 years. I started to have issues with phos and nitrates around the 4th year before I switched to biger tank and got rid of live sand.

For those that have or recommend a Remote DSB would a 29 gallon with 8+ inches of sand be enough for a 220 tank?

I have a fuge running under the tank should I get a bigger tank and make it a fuge/remote DSB?

Anyone suggest against it?

Opinions are greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

[aguila88psi]

If your going to do a DSB for filtration/buffering reasons, a remote DSB would be best as it can be easily removed or maintained. As with anything in this hobby regarding filtration, go as big as you possibly can and work with what you have.

 

[rogergolf66]

I think 8in of sand in a 29 gal will give min. Results for a 220 gal setup. I would think u need a 55 gallon tank min to see the results u r looking for. Jmo.

As Pedro said it well bigger the better foe this. Good luck

 

[bigzman]

Thanks Pedro and Roger. I will look for a 55 / 65 since I really can't do any larger. Now comes the question I forgot to ask. The area were I plan to place this rdsb will be in a laundry room. It will be located above washer and dryer (about 6 feet up). What kind of flow is recommended for rdbs like this? Any recommendations on pumps?

 

[anbosu]

They are supposed to be pretty low flow - hope that is a strong shelf! I would look into a food grade plastic container, it should be cheaper and for this application perfect, I would think.

 

[rogergolf66]

I think having it higher then the tank is perfect . Have flow upto the tank with a valve to control flow to that tank. Then the put to the sump or display.

That's what I want to do but don't hav the room for it any where

 

[rogergolf66]

Pump will r really depend what size pipe u r running to it? 1/2 in? And what hight /head pressure. More contact time the beter from my understanding. If it was me I would use a manfold off your returnbpump if it strong enough

 

[bigzman]

Food grade plastics is not cheap. 55 or 65 drilled tank might work best. Being a tank much larger than I was going to start with I too wonder if it is wise to place it on a shelf. Good part is the location I had in mind is a concrete wall. I can also use 4 by 4 from floor to help support.

Roger I have two mag 12 running now. I was thinking of running a 9. The total distance from DT to planned area is about 12 ft. (6 up and 6 sideway)

 

[bigzman]

Should I make it a mixed DSB and fug and fill the sump area with more LR? I already have 200 ponds of rock.

 

[rogergolf66]

I would

 

[aguila88psi]

The golden rule of 1lb rock per gallon is really an estimate, the more rock you have the more area the beneficial bacteria can live which means a higher biological filtration system. The down side is that you have to maintain high flow around the rock to keep from having detritus pockets.

 

[anbosu]

Food grade plastics is not cheap. 55 or 65 drilled tank might work best. Being a tank much larger than I was going to start with I too wonder if it is wise to place it on a shelf. Good part is the location I had in mind is a concrete wall. I can also use 4 by 4 from floor to help support.

Roger I have two mag 12 running now. I was thinking of running a 9. The total distance from DT to planned area is about 12 ft. (6 up and 6 sideway)

I was thinking you could use a Rubbermaid container or something, but you're right a used 55 would probably be cheaper.

 

[BobbyV]

If you are looking for more bio mechanical filtration, I would try and stay away from sand as much as possible and find a way to add bio media to your sump.

They come in a 8x8x4 block, 8x8x1 sheet, and little golf balls.

Bio Media Pure - their website has free shipping I believe.

Cleaner and modular in design.

 

[rogergolf66]

I would guess he is looking for nitrate reduction from the deep sand bed.?

 

[Ted_C]

I run two of those 8x8x4 inch blocks in my sump - one to elevate the skimmer and one in my fuge area. I've had undetectable nitrates in my system since I started. True, I started with a 5" sand bed in my fuge and 3.5" in my display but I siphoned all of that out and just use those blocks + lots of chaeto (lighted 24 hours x 7 days) + 24x7 wet skimming. Nitrates are still undetectable (Red Sea). that's feeding three times a day (one block brine + 1/2 block reef cavier in the morning + 1 wheel of new era for the blue eyed tang thats gone by the time lights are out, 1 turn of an autofeeder in the afternoon, 1 block mysis + 1/2 block reef cavier + 1/4" block of Rods, maybe some bloodworms or live black worms before lights out @ 8 PM once or twice a week)

I gotta give a +1 to bobby on this one - I wouldn't use the sand. It's too maintenance intensive even as a RDSB. If you make the RDSB a fuge too - the maintenance will be worse as you'll need to clean the sand of the detritus that accumulates not only from your flow from your display tank but from the snails and pods and such you might put in there.

My sand had alot of rotten material that was buried in the sand. When I would take a turkey baster to it I'd see a puff of black go up into my water column. That was running a Shimek deep sand bed too (with spaghetti and bristle worms, clams, micro-brittle stars) So that's my background why I never reccomend sand beds.

 

[aguila88psi]

To avoid a whole debate on whether sand beds work or don't, they are completely preference, they can be high maintanence and they have a track record of working and not working.

I am pro deep sandbed due to the animals (Anampses and Macropharyngodon wrasses) that I like to keep and love the sand look. Because of these, I don't mind the maintanence. I"m against an RDSB, however as I would rather have the sand in the display.

 

[Ali :D]

Seeing BobbyV's tank, without sand, I kinda like the look. I just don't think I am ready to lose my sand yet! I would definitely look into other methods of nitrate reduction like the bio block or running a larger reactor with stuff like Seachem's Matrix/Pond Matrix. They are really effective at knocking down the nitrates and keeping them there, feed the return from the bio media to a skimmer too and that will make it more effective.

 

[bigzman]

Thank you all. Roger yes to the Nitrates reduction but as well as adding more biodiversity and critters along with adding water volume. As for Bobby recommendation I didn't know about it. I will research the bio block. It seems cool and easy to manage.

As for Ali I like the idea of using seachems matrix as I have seen great results with my discus freshwater tank. The only downside of Matrix is that it needs higherflow to be effective. I didnt trust if as a reef safe product as I am unsure if it contains silicate.

 

[Ali :D]

I have used Matrix in many tanks and have found improvements in Nitrate and phosphate levels in all. IME, high flow is not as necessary but flow is important, all of the media needs to have active flow so that it can do it's work properly. I have never had an issue with silicates or have tested for it while using it. I saw vast improvements in water quality, polyp extension and coral color while using matrix, probably as a result of the improved water quality.

 

[BobbyV]

Bio media has really started creating a buzz on YouTube videos.

The latest American Reef channel talk about it in one of the miracle mud videos.

Bulk reef supply also talks about it on their channel.

Sand is great looking but it holds onto everything you are trying to get rid of and becomes rancid over time. (Scoop some out and smell it, nasty stuff.)

DSB are very nice, but they go bad after 4 or 5 years. (Popular discussional thread on RC)

Through trail and error what has been working for me is alot of high quality porous rock (and or bio media) and water changes.

Assuming that your bio load isn't too high and your skimmer is working well.

GFO and Refuge are a great idea for additional support.

I will tell you however, pulling all that sand out is a very big job and will agitate or kill some coral due to the shock.

This is why I started over. I was in your same position. It isn't fun.

If you do decide to start completely over, go BB, invest in high quality rock, bio media in the sump, refuge, GFO, good skimmer and religious water changes.

You will not have to deal with this frustration and it will be almost impossible to wind up where you are now.

I think I have been 6 months now BB and my tank is silly easy. No algae on the glass. I magnet sweep it once a week. All rock and glass bottom turning purple. (I also have an oversized sterilizer on line, which really helps the no algae issues.)

Since I started over and nuked everything, I also have no aptasia or pests in my system. Even if a "bug" got in there, since I am so wrasse crazy - my little minions will snatch them up as a snack!

Alot of work but very well worth it for the future.

Yes sand is amazing but I had to give it up.

Also you don't have to worry about sand granules hiding in your cleaning magnets which will potentially scratch your glass.