Sea Shepard turns its attention to our hobby

[cortez marine]

I think the wrong guy got inside the tent and has access.
As he became one of the tribe, his own personal business-cause got some play.
What the Sea Shepards needs is an aquarium keeper on the advisory board.

So much of opinion is forged by proximity and access to discussion
Familiarization lowers the guard and confers a credibility based on some personal trust thing.

Sumner Redstone need to buy a ship for the Sea Shepards, take a big tax write off and give our side some play.
Steve

 

[Borge]

Then please educate us Americans and others throughout the world on whaling.

I am not being rude here or anything I am really interested in:
Why your country does it?
How many whales and what species does Norway hunt?
What percentage of your population uses whale products?

Again I am not being political etc. You stated that we are uninformed and try to rule the world so here is your opportunity to teach us something.

whale like ox and cows are eaten for food.
Thats why my country been doing this for over 1000 years.
how many, do not know. Timing is regulated by law, same as hunting elk and deer. Mostly one species. Not many to choose from.
Products, what do you consider products? filling in different pate, or meat in the freezer... does not matter, available in freezers all over scandenavia, together with other products of meat.
How many percentage you ask, nah about the same amount that eat meat from the sea I guess.
Anyone taking time to think of this would be able to come up with these answers, it is not a killing for pleasure other than some like to hunt and eat, same as any other hunting allowed.

 

[Borge]

You make some good points... but Paul Watson isn't American, nor is most of the SS crew

wut? always thought he was from canada :reading:

 

[Borge]

For what its' worth, ruling the world hasn't come up on any campaign agenda for quite some time.

If the argument is for subsistance fishing done as it has been for centuries, I don't think there's anyone stopping the inhabitants of whaling villages from feeding themselves.

When you start using cannon-fired harpoons from the deck of a boat no fish can out-run, you may ask fi the argument is still about subsistance. Once the playing field is shifted so that even hunting now becomes a platform for technology and efficiency, someone has to step back and ask how long before they disappear. Ask fisherman where fish stocks have virtually crashed.

As a child I remember being able to catch juvenile codfish running the Hudson river in the dead of winter as it had been done for centuries. They just disappeared.

It's about managing resources in a world where technology can tip natural balances in a heartbeat. It's about getting both sides of the argument to agree that we now have technology that needs to be used responsibly.

The ruling part is more or less an understanding over large part of other continents that US can't leave other countries alone. Prolly not in Paul's mind, but it is more or less how it is received outside of the us borders.

For the other part; how the hunting is handled. I would hope for the quickest and easiest way for the animal to be killed, but I know little to nothing about the facts about just that subject.

 

[HippieSmell]

The ruling part is more or less an understanding over large part of other continents that US can't leave other countries alone. Prolly not in Paul's mind, but it is more or less how it is received outside of the us borders.

For the other part; how the hunting is handled. I would hope for the quickest and easiest way for the animal to be killed, but I know little to nothing about the facts about just that subject.

You know, it's the IWC, not the USAWC that regulates whaling.

Not being a vegetarian, I can't preach too much about killing animals for food, but there is an intelligence level where it becomes uncomfortable for me to eat an animal. I just can't fathom eating an animal that has such an advanced social structure, high intelligence, long life span, etc.

 

[jeff127]

How far is the "99% of captive fish die" statement from the truth? I'm certainly no expert but I'd have thought the true figure is closer to his figure than we'd like to think.


Jeff.

 

[cortez marine]

There is an intelligence level ...

Thats it of course.
Might as well eat chimpanzees and gorillas.

In my own hypocricy, I draw the line at predator animals. I feel better if they hooves.
Steve

 

[cortez marine]

Jeff,
To make such definitive statements one must be quite an authority on unobtainable information.
To be sure, Esnorkler Roberto no es un authoridad de nada.
Hes a Googler at best, perhaps selectively cut and pasted something from someone ...somewhere, some time.
99% within a year? I am sure glad thats not true, but then again, I'm in the trade. Have been for 30 years and live, eat and sleep this stuff.
I know I forgot more in this mornings rem cycle then he knows about the subject matter.
Steve

 

[RGBMatt]

99% within a year? I am sure glad thats not true, but then again, I'm in the trade. Have been for 30 years and live, eat and sleep this stuff.

Bob Fenner wrote this in an article about cyanide fish IIRC. So, now these activists took that and are trying to say that all aquarium fish die within a year. This is absolutely not true, especially with Hawaiian fish.

The irony is that the aquarium industry in places like Hawaii does things the right way, and has very low mortality rates. Closing us down only will force demand into 3rd world countries where the fish are not properly cared for, causing more fish to die than before.

 

[carlosR]

I don't have a tv but this weekend I took a roadtrip and watched some Animal Planet and others. I was horrified at what passes for "nature" documentaries. People need to get out in the real world and see for themselves and experience it. This type of garbage is designed to mold your opinion not inform you. I'm glad I am a Montanan. We still have a real world.

 

[cortez marine]

I have been around and in general the Hawaiians and the Aussies do the best work.
Public aquariums are full of old fishes and from Mexico we still have fishes from the early 80's in different customers tanks.
Much of what I have learned to train collectors in the Philippines, Tonga, Mexico, Bali and PNG Learned from Hawaiians and Aussies.

Sure you get the odd yeah-hoo collector who hasn't got a clue but to purport that to be the norm is dishonest.
The ambulance chasing eco-press is like the press in general it seems.
If it bleeds it leads,.
If it dies it flies.
If its good...and everything goes nicely.....its boring and not worth reporting.
Steve

 

[Sharpie_]

How far is the "99% of captive fish die" statement from the truth? I'm certainly no expert but I'd have thought the true figure is closer to his figure than we'd like to think.


Jeff.

When I read that quote the first thing that came to mind was, "we capture them.... THEN EAT EM!"

 

[KafudaFish]

whale like ox and cows are eaten for food.
Thats why my country been doing this for over 1000 years.
how many, do not know. Timing is regulated by law, same as hunting elk and deer. Mostly one species. Not many to choose from.
Products, what do you consider products? filling in different pate, or meat in the freezer... does not matter, available in freezers all over scandenavia, together with other products of meat.
How many percentage you ask, nah about the same amount that eat meat from the sea I guess.
Anyone taking time to think of this would be able to come up with these answers, it is not a killing for pleasure other than some like to hunt and eat, same as any other hunting allowed.

Thanks for the reply.

So do you think this is more of a cultural/historical way of obtaining meat or does it fill a void when other food items are limited?

Also how do you prepare the food? Figure with the high fat content it would be smoked such as a jerkey or a salmon or even eaten raw?

 

[chilwil84]

Originally Posted by Borge
The ruling part is more or less an understanding over large part of other continents that US can't leave other countries alone. Prolly not in Paul's mind, but it is more or less how it is received outside of the us borders


your not part of germany your free because of the USA along with the rest of europe maybe we should have left germany alone.

 

[NanoDog]

Granted, we haven't seen any real data for the 99% die within a year statement, but I wouldn't be so quick to discount this number as others seem to be. I've been reading the R/C forums for some time now and this particular forum seems to be dominated by "responsible reefkeepers". However, when I read the other forums there are many, MANY, threads about fish dying, total die-offs, cooked systems, etc. I'm not sure that the group in this particular forum are the right ones to judge this using their own tanks as the example. Please don't misunderstand me as I enjoy reading the threads here and would suggest that most of the posters on here are advanced reefers.

We can discuss at length about responsible collecting but it seems to me that the collectors in Hawaii only rotate their collecting sites in response to diminished returns. There is nothing responsible about this. They are a business and collect as many fish and inverts as they possibly can during every collecting trip. Personally I would love to see what the reefs are like without collecting and fishing. In addition to the ornamentals we also have a problem with overfishing of the food fish here. There is no license required for fishing here (for locals anyway) and the reefs here show it.

Snorkel Bob is definitely over the top on these topics (don't get him started on buying shells) but it doesn't make him wrong.

Reef keeping has made large strides in the past two decades. The propagation of corals is commonplace now. Captive raised fish, however, don't seem to be making the same strides. The clownfish seem to still be the only fish that could possibly be bred in the amounts it takes to sustain the demand from the hobby.

The only way for Americans to protect the reefs in other countries is to stop importing their fish and invertebrates. I'm not advocating a total ban but that's the truth.

 

[cortez marine]

The only way for Americans to protect the reefs in other countries is to stop importing their fish and invertebrates. I'm not advocating a total ban but that's the truth.

Not even close to the truth.
Food fishing in other countries is heavy handed and so much more destructive to reefs and reef populations as to be laughable by comparison.
Aquarium fish species are largely food fish species it may surprise you to learn and the broodstocks are the ones speared in the heads at nite in a thousand reefs where there are no fish collectors.

Reefs are often done in long before the aquarium trade shows up.
In fact...the tropicals are seen as a more benign alternative in most countries.

Americans may try to imagine the world from afar and even go so far as to speak for others interests.
They are way off base and need to immerse in other cultures for awhile to see what really happens.

I had a diver tell me he was scared to death of the move to culture fishes in laboratories. Something that would put him out of business!
Don't worry I told them. They can only culture the easy , fast growing species that lay larger eggs and don't really need "saving" so much. They have to pretend that its a viable alternative to fool the funders.
Although Americans may not care about poor fishers/divers, they do claim to want to save their reefs by culturing clownfish and a few gobies and dottybacks.

Claiming to care so much as to save the reefs from people who are not consulted and who need to work there is an odd hypocrisy.
Stopping tropical fish collecting and driving divers back to food fish slaughter is counterproductive, poor conservation strategy and culturally ignorant and insensitive.

A balance between the two is a wiser approach.
Thousands of Fisherman in the tropical world live at the reefs doorstep and will not sit and starve quietly.
How silly not to recognize this!
Steve

 

[NanoDog]

Let's just talk Hawaii then. It's estimated that there are less than 100 divers responsible for all of the commercial aquarium collection on the islands. Compare that to several thousand commercial and recreational fishing boats around the islands. I'm not sure how much more the Hawaiian food fish "slaughter" will be impacted if these folks become involved with it upon leaving collecting.

All formal studies done in Hawaii show large decreases in ornamental fish biomass in collection areas and all come to the same conclusion: we have no idea what the impact is to the ecosystem due to these decreases. All regulation of reef collection has resulted in positive changes to the reefs in Hawaii and the trend will be increased regulation as more studies are done. If the industry waits for the science to figure out their impact, they will ultimately lose. The claims of self-regulation by the collectors is all lip-service. As long as they are making a good living they care little for the fish stocks. I agree with you that we need balance but where is it and how do we achieve it?

 

[Borge]

Thanks for the reply.

So do you think this is more of a cultural/historical way of obtaining meat or does it fill a void when other food items are limited?

Also how do you prepare the food? Figure with the high fat content it would be smoked such as a jerkey or a salmon or even eaten raw?

cultural, one could say that... started as that and have just continued into new times because it is what some people do. There are places here in norway where nothing ... as in NO thing grows ;D where sea life is the only way of life.

Prepare... I guess also that differs from location and ethnic groups. My family use to cook it together with salad instead of sheep, use it as a steak and sometimes as a substitute for meatballs. Smoking it like fish I haven't heard of but drying and smoking is probable.


in the 60' 70' (and earlier) whale was considered a poor mans food, now a days it is one of the more expensive meat sources commonly available

 

[Borge]

Originally Posted by Borge
The ruling part is more or less an understanding over large part of other continents that US can't leave other countries alone. Prolly not in Paul's mind, but it is more or less how it is received outside of the us borders


your not part of germany your free because of the USA along with the rest of europe maybe we should have left germany alone.

OT
yes the war machine really saw potential for moneymaking for the first time.
maybe you should've left them alone, maybe not. Way it is now, you cannot seem to keep your hands off any strife worth while.
And of course US didn't join till after pearl harbour

 

[tozzi]

I only watch whale wars cause the show is such a mess. I mean im all for their cause, saving whales and all, but come on what a bunch of screw ups. Its been years now and they still havent thrown a sucessful prop fouler! HAHAHAHA The whaling ships laugh at them. Seeing how they operate on tv, im not too worried