Sea Shepard turns its attention to our hobby

[coralnut99]

Good Gosh! So well put Steve.

 

[ibnozn]

Anyone else find it odd how much candor Hawaii's largest marine ornamental fish exporter displays in the roundtable Snorkle Bob describes?

Here's a guy sitting down with a state senator discussing the future of his business and when the number of fish he takes annually comes up he basically says "oh no, I actually take more than twice as much as you think I do"

 

[RGBMatt]

That's because he's being misquoted, and didn't actually say that.

 

[cortez marine]

Hawaii was never a priority on the aquarium reform agenda when I was in it .
Why?
Because they already have serious legal authorities and scientific knowledge locally available.
The resource of biologists in Hawaii is dense ie. 2.1 per sq. meter.
They have the Bishop Museum, The Waikiki Aquarium, the universities, a million whistle blowers for every little thing....etc.
They are better covered then any place I know.

They of all places would know what they are doing....
The shrillness of the anti-aquarium forces seem to be focused on very local, specific, dramatic, token, subjectively perceived impacts and ignorant of the majority areas that off limits or out of bounds due to remoteness.

The few collectors out of Cairns Australia went thru this already.
They tend to stay nearby as they collect what they need...nearby .
Even their own government sponsored reseach revealed that as the fishes recruit and replace themselves, they remained...certifiably sustainable.

The vastness of the Great barrier Reef to the North of them is absolutely protected by the simple fact...[ simple to collectors, not to armchair observers wearing green Tee shirts and rose colored glasses ].....
Gasoline. One does not want to spend more on gasoline going far, far away to collect what one can take nearer by.

One guy told me another reason. It was so remote and wild up there...if you break down you can get in trouble and perhaps stuck for days.
God forbid you get injured of have a diving accident out there.
Steve

 

[RGBMatt]

They of all places would know what they are doing....
The shrillness of the anti-aquarium forces seem to be focused on very local, specific, dramatic, token, subjectively perceived impacts and ignorant of the majority areas that off limits or out of bounds due to remoteness.

Really, what's happening is that a handful of people have a moral objection to keeping fish in captivity. It has nothing to do with conservation - Bob even says in his piece that it's a moral issue, not a conservation issue.

But, this is a very small (but vocal) minority. It's difficult to ban an industry just on moral grounds, so they need to pretend that there is a conservation issue to get people's attention, hence the exaggerations, misquotes, and conjecture.

In real life, it's been proven already that the fishery is sustainable, has no noticeable detrimental effect on the reef, and is especially insignificant compared with the effects of other fisheries. The real problems associated with the industry (chemicals, coral damage, live rock collection) have already been outlawed in Hawaii for many years, and are not practiced. I do think the fishery could be better managed (and we have spent an awful lot of time working with the state to accomplish this), it's low on the priority list simply because there are far more pressing issues to worry about.

 

[pbnj]

I think the Sea Shepard should stick to saving whales and focus on ways to better utilize the millions of dollars in donations they receive than throwing stink-bombs at whaling boats (and missing 99% of the time).

 

[andrewk529]

I think the Sea Shepard should stick to saving whales and focus on ways to better utilize the millions of dollars in donations they receive than throwing stink-bombs at whaling boats (and missing 99% of the time).

+1!

 

[JHemdal]

Andrew,

I wondered if somebody would post something about that recent South Park episode!

They skewered BOTH sides of that issue, and IMO, that was well-deserved! The smarmy captain of the Sea Shepard's boat really turns my stomach - almost as much as the "scientific" harvesting of whales by the Japanese. For months I've been watching this show - hoping for BOTH sides to fail!

I found myself torn last week - flipping channels (as I'm wont to do) I watched "The Cove" about Japanese killing dolphins. When that made me physically ill, I switched to another "nature show", where some "swamp people" were gaffing live alligators. The first show was supposed to incite us to be more "environmental" while the second show was supposed to be "exciting". To me, in both shows, animals were dying for no needful purpose - and I do not hold the typical paradigm where killing an "intelligent" cetacean is some how "worse" than killing a stupid cold-blooded reptile....

Back to whales - I think that what really needs to happen is that pressure needs to be brought to bear on the IWC so that this "scientific collecting" loophole is finally closed. I also think that people need to reconsider their donated funds that go to "envronmental activists" so that their money is better spent - by changing the laws, not funding media whores!


Jay

 

[tozzi]

I think the Sea Shepard should stick to saving whales and focus on ways to better utilize the millions of dollars in donations they receive than throwing stink-bombs at whaling boats (and missing 99% of the time).

+2

Really, growin men tossing stink-bombs, LOL come on! Grow up. hundreds of millions in donated funds and they buy an antiquated boat that cant even keep up, and throw stinkbombs, good strategy

 

[greenbean36191]

I think that what really needs to happen is that pressure needs to be brought to bear on the IWC so that this "scientific collecting" loophole is finally closed.

The US will never let that happen.

Back when the commercial whaling moratorium was first proposed, Japan just wasn't going to play along at all until the US threatened to revoke their fishing rights in US waters. Given that Japan clearly has no intentions of stopping commercial whaling, if the loophole was closed, they would either have to pull out of the moratorium altogether or continue BAU in violation of the IWC agreement. In either case it makes America look dumb if we don't carry through with our threat of revoking their fishing rights, which is financially and politically undesirable for us. It's much easier to let them harvest their quota every year and say "we don't like that, but they're within the law" and go on about our business.

 

[greenbean36191]

Can we please reserve the terrorist label for people who actually deserve it?

Terrorism [ter-uh-riz-uhm]
–noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Watson has bombed ships. He's intentionally rammed ships, even modifying his own vessels to do as much damage as possible to others when he rams them. He takes credit for sinking at least 10 fishing vessels.

That behavior seems to fit definition number 1 perfectly. The governments of at least 6 countries, including the US and Canada and even Greenpeace agree that he's a terrorist. He's even been banned from IWC meetings for nearly 25 years for his actions.

 

[cortez marine]

Depending on how you feel about whales his actions are all there has been that shows how cruel and corrupt the whale killing business is.
When the law breaks the law...or ignores it for its own political purposes,..there is no law.
Then, the " Hes outside the law" charge rings hollow.

I am refreshed by someone who cares beyond the paperwork to do what others are afraid to do.

Steve

 

[Lynnmw1208]

They may be reckless hippies, but they aren't clueless, and they are bringing attention to the whaling industry. Whaling should be stopped, for sure.

Please. Can we please reserve the terrorist label for people who actually deserve it?

As far as the article goes, I agree the industry might need more regulation, but an outright ban is too much. They should focus on conservation so that those fish have more places to breed, and education so people don't buy things like cleaner wrasses.

I agree. I think that whole issue with the lots of tangs and other fish dying can be helped if there were some regulations and rules about collecting these fish. Some people are even still collecting using chemicals to make the fish sleep which also isnt good for the fish or the environment. there should also be limits to how many can be collected and certain times like crab fishing and that. this way the fish have time to catch up in reproducing and such.

also why doesn't this guy complain about the millions of fish Japan is consuming for dinner? they are actually depleting many species in the ocean as well.

 

[shaithis13]

Depending on how you feel about whales his actions are all there has been that shows how cruel and corrupt the whale killing business is.
When the law breaks the law...or ignores it for its own political purposes,..there is no law.
Then, the " Hes outside the law" charge rings hollow.

I am refreshed by someone who cares beyond the paperwork to do what others are afraid to do.

Steve

AGREED!!! condemn him for his methods or his questionable info if you want. but there is no way around one very important fact. he has brought worldwide attention to something that is very wrong. were it not for paul watson the VAST majority of the people aware of the issue would have never heard a word about it their whole lives. you cant start moving towards change without first bringing on awareness of the need. there are people all over the world now that talk about this issue and promote this issue to those around them thanks to him.

 

[greenbean36191]

When the law breaks the law...or ignores it for its own political purposes,..there is no law.
Then, the " Hes outside the law" charge rings hollow.

Who, aside from Sea Shepard is breaking or ignoring the law?

Regardless of whether they're abusing the intent, scientific whaling is a provision of the IWC agreement. In any event, the IWC moratorium is a non-binding agreement, not international law, so even if the Japanese were in violation, what they're doing in international waters still isn't illegal. If the Japanese simply withdrew from the agreement altogether, and were therefore not subject to any of the IWC regulations, do you think that Watson would leave them alone? Given that he was sinking whaling ships years prior to the moratorium, I certainly don't think so.

He's opposed to whaling on ideological grounds, not legal grounds, and he's only using his claim of illegal activity as a post hoc justification so he can pretend to be a hero rather than just a terrorist.

 

[cortez marine]

Iwc.....

Iwc.....

Ahh yes,The IWC.
That august body of stalwart ocean advocates.
Accepted, institutionalized corruption that legitimizes whaling for scientific purposes so that Japan doesn't take its money and withdraw.
Huh?
But....they are trying to calm Japan down and change them slowly....so that they don't lose the funding.
So hey. If ya can't beat em...join em and enjoy the perks.
[ nice example to show the kids how to act when they grow up huh?]
Steve

Japan Offers Bribes of Cash, Prostitutes for Whaling Votes

Is there anything Japan won't try in order to keep hunting whales? On the eve of a meeting of the International Whaling Commission, news broke that Japanese officials have offered bribes of cash, prostitutes, and travel perks to delegates of other nations in return for votes on whaling policies.

The revelations come via the The Times in London, which sent two undercover reporters to pose as conservation lobbyists for a fictional billionaire to offer bribes to IWC reps from several small nations"”and videotaped the negotiations.

The result is a raft of embarrassing situations. Representatives of a half-dozen countries say they are open to promising their votes to the bidder with the best offer"”often comparing the offers to those they already get from Japan.

The bribes outlined in The Times' exhaustive report include travel expenses and money for meals, along with trips to Japan, where prostitutes were known to be on offer. Delegates from other nations talked about how Japan's use of aid"”or its threat to withhold or revoke it"”was a major factor in how they voted on whaling ballots.

At issue is a controversial new proposal that the 24-year ban on all commercial whaling be lifted to allow legal hunts for several whaling nations on a descending scale. Under the plan, nations like Japan, Norway, and Iceland would be allowed a small, legal take that would decrease over 10 years and actually be lower than the number currently hunted by the three countries, which continue to whale using loopholes in IWC law, or simply by disregarding it.

The new proposal, being offered at the IWC meeting in Morocco this month, is supported by the U.S. and several other nations"”including Japan, of course.

In fact, as reported by the AP, Japan said Tuesday it would consider withdrawing from the IWC unless progress is made on easement of the ban.

The recent revelations of bribery are essentially confirmations of tactics Japan has been accused of using in the past"”giving development aid to poor countries in exchange for support in the IWC.

St. Kitts, for its part, one of the nations caught up in the scandal, denied the allegation that it has taken bribes, according to a local paper there.

In the end, it's hard to pick a bad guy here: who is more at fault, the Japanese for illicitly bribing poor nations that have no real stake in the fight"”or the representatives of those nations themselves, for blatantly selling out cetaceans for free food and cheap flights?

Or is it the IWC to blame for being impotent in policing its own policies?

With next week's Morocco meeting being heralded as the most important in two decades, the question remains: Can the IWC pull itself together? Or is the system too broken?

 

[andrewk529]

Jay,

I am glad someone else found humor in that episode of South Park, it was hilarious! I was also watching the cove documentary a few weeks ago, it's a rather atrocious hunt; my only consolation is that fact the dolphin meat contains significant levels of toxins. It is tragic that a few corporations are holding the truth even from the Japanese public.

 

[mallorieGgator]

I actually like the stance they were taking on whales. However, they need to stick to whales. That article is bogus. Not only was it not scientifically backed up, it just used Hawaii as the only example not really proving anything.

 

[Mr. Fish]

Loved the south park episode. And I have to laugh that on the very channel that whale wars is on I have seen Bear Grylls and the other "survival shows" brutally kill hundreds of animals for no more than entertainment purposes. Maybe the Sea Shepherd should spend his time following Bear around and throwing stink bombs at him every time he tries to bite the head off a snake, rather than blindly attacking the aquarium hobby.

 

[Borge]

Americans ie. Makah Indians in Neah Bay, Olympic Peninsula, Washington kill some grey whales periodically.
Is the US therefore giving sanction to the practice?
Although many of us are against the "harvest" ...are we not a bit of a whaling nation ourselves?

As far as the resource goes, a few here and there is sustainable it appears, but the sticking point is the intelligence level of a fellow sentient being.
[I would like to hear comment on this by our friend from Norway.]

This is the prime motivator that drives the Sea Shepards and earns them the support.
Letting themselves be "used" by Snort'n Bob on the aquarium fish thing makes them look not so wise.
A counter guest editorial would be fair and should be given.
Steve

better late than never.
Truth to be told, i know nothing about a whales intelligence level. Don't even know how they measure it in these animals?
I would have no objections if whaling was banned (I would LIKE to trust that such a decision is a correct one), I don't live in a threatened community where sea life is the only choice, but as of now; If I get served a whale steak, I'll devour it like any other animal without to much (if any) regret other than it was once an animal and we killed it.

@ the guy with mercury on his brain, in Norway such is not allowed sold or eaten (there are of course limits, witch is pretty low as a world standard), we have experiences of putting down flocks of animals due to exposure to irradiation, sickness and exposure to other pollutants.

I would however like to draw a few pictures for you:
Imagine a country or even countries who depends on something like dogs and cats. Where it is so deeply rooted that when now, when not in need of these animals, they are so domesticated and behave as a natural part of the family.
In china they eat everything, even our domestic and smart enough animals.
Another picture; Image these countries again seeing Animal planet and the animals police in the US. Seriously, I KNOW americans who do love their animals, but do you guys really treat our best friends like that?

TV and media does not make money on showing goodness, but rather problems and catastrophy and only the bad episodes of a hunt is shown, also the mistreated dogs and starved cats and horses so thin you can see trough them. Now, no money in showing happy dogs in a good big bed and a cat playing with a paper, neither a successful hunt where its over before it even started.