Here is the problem that I see with Sea Shepard taking aim at aquarium hobby. I think that most of the people on these forums and in the hobby, if not totally sold on their tactics, support their efforts against whaling. Having read the piece that they wrote on this hobby that I love I've lost respect for them as a whole. They make sweeping generalizations about this hobby and I am left to wonder if they are using similar tactics in their fight against whaling. Just my thoughts.
Sea Shepard turns its attention to our hobby
- Thread starter Ooulophilia
- Start date
- Status
cortez marine
In Memoriam
As I understand it, the article was a...a..an article and not a policy endorsement from the group .
Perhaps Snorkle Bobs story is all they know about tropical fish.
Perhaps it was an intro. into something bigger or an experience that will keep them out of the issue.
There are issues in the trade that need attention but they weren't in his article.
I used to think the cyanide issue was the main thing that the trade had to worry about but as the export governments turned a blind eye to it and then the U.S, Fish and Wildlife Service as well, the reform tide subsided.
Afterall, every illegally cyanide caught fish from Indonesia and the Philippines has been sanctioned and cleared for entry into the U.S. by legal process.
Don't worry. He won't ever take up that banner as theres no commercial dividend in it for him.
Steve
Perhaps Snorkle Bobs story is all they know about tropical fish.
Perhaps it was an intro. into something bigger or an experience that will keep them out of the issue.
There are issues in the trade that need attention but they weren't in his article.
I used to think the cyanide issue was the main thing that the trade had to worry about but as the export governments turned a blind eye to it and then the U.S, Fish and Wildlife Service as well, the reform tide subsided.
Afterall, every illegally cyanide caught fish from Indonesia and the Philippines has been sanctioned and cleared for entry into the U.S. by legal process.
Don't worry. He won't ever take up that banner as theres no commercial dividend in it for him.
Steve
mscarpena
New member
Of course everything does need to be regulated. Many things should not be collected in this hooby because they are just destined to die. We as hobbiest need to send collectors that message and not buy thing that die because we can not meet their needs. Also I have to say while I agree with some of it not all of it. There is a lot out there now that it tank raised or aquacultured. Also I dont know about you guys, but I have had some fish for 8 years and some corals for that long as well.
cindre2000
New member
It is important to remember that the focus should not be on the survival rate of the fish captured. Rather, it should be on the quantity captured vs. the fisheries ability to sustain such a capture.
It does not matter if a fish lives or dies: 1 day, 1 week, 1 year, or 10 years; it has still been removed from the fishery. You might as well eat the fish once it has been removed, it can no longer reproduce, thus sustain a fishery.
It does not matter if a fish lives or dies: 1 day, 1 week, 1 year, or 10 years; it has still been removed from the fishery. You might as well eat the fish once it has been removed, it can no longer reproduce, thus sustain a fishery.
Cindre2000,
You wrote:
"It does not matter if a fish lives or dies: 1 day, 1 week, 1 year, or 10 years"
Really? How do you work that math? If you buy a damselfish and it dies in 4 months and you buy another one and it lives for another 4 months and I buy a damselfish and it lives for five years...how many damsels were you responsible for being collected versus me?
The survival rate is the SINGLE most important issue here! Think of the epitomy of survival - closed cycle reproduction - you reach that and wild extraction is no longer required.
I've studied marine fish survival rates in aquariums since 1986, this is actually a vital issue for home aquarists, something they have MUCH more control over than sustainability.
If you want more information, here is a link to an article I wrote last year on the topic: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/12/fish2
Jay
You wrote:
"It does not matter if a fish lives or dies: 1 day, 1 week, 1 year, or 10 years"
Really? How do you work that math? If you buy a damselfish and it dies in 4 months and you buy another one and it lives for another 4 months and I buy a damselfish and it lives for five years...how many damsels were you responsible for being collected versus me?
The survival rate is the SINGLE most important issue here! Think of the epitomy of survival - closed cycle reproduction - you reach that and wild extraction is no longer required.
I've studied marine fish survival rates in aquariums since 1986, this is actually a vital issue for home aquarists, something they have MUCH more control over than sustainability.
If you want more information, here is a link to an article I wrote last year on the topic: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/12/fish2
Jay
IMO, both cindre2000 and Jay are right. From a simple fisheries management standpoint, sustainablity of the of the fished population is what's at stake. The idea is not to extract more fish than the population can replace without declining. Current fisheries models try to include environmental factors as well as fishing pressures to determine sustainability. For the fishing pressure side of the equation, fisheries managers only care about how many (and sizes/age) of the fish extracted. Their end fate as food or aquarium pets is totally irrelevant to determining sustainable yields.
Jay's point addresses the fishing pressure angle. The shorter a given fish lives in captivity, the higher the market demand to catch more and replace that fish. The higher the demand, the higher the pressures to catch more fish. A simple reduction in market demand can by itself reduce fishing pressure. Therefore, the longer everyone can keep their fish alive, the better for all concerned. Not to mention simple public perception, which matters a good bit as it effects the politics of the situation, and politics sadly often matter more than the science.
Jay's point addresses the fishing pressure angle. The shorter a given fish lives in captivity, the higher the market demand to catch more and replace that fish. The higher the demand, the higher the pressures to catch more fish. A simple reduction in market demand can by itself reduce fishing pressure. Therefore, the longer everyone can keep their fish alive, the better for all concerned. Not to mention simple public perception, which matters a good bit as it effects the politics of the situation, and politics sadly often matter more than the science.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
"œThe funny thing is that despite the TV-friendly missteps and collisions, the activists' mission appears to have been successful during the past whaling season. The Japanese fleet reported that it fell well short of its quota. It was able to kill only 506 minke and fin whales when its goal was 935."
And that is of course the bottom line "“ the lives of whales saved!
Well , lets see;
935 kill target
- 506 whales killed
429 saved whales...? Well thats more concrete results then every other group put together.
They do that and I can forgive their "guest editorial" by a guy that they trusted.
Lets supose that Snorke Bob misled them , alarmed them and confused them.
Theirs is not the only media to mis-report things in the aquarium trade.
Steve
And that is of course the bottom line "“ the lives of whales saved!
Well , lets see;
935 kill target
- 506 whales killed
429 saved whales...? Well thats more concrete results then every other group put together.
They do that and I can forgive their "guest editorial" by a guy that they trusted.
Lets supose that Snorke Bob misled them , alarmed them and confused them.
Theirs is not the only media to mis-report things in the aquarium trade.
Steve
edandsandy
Active member
This was a sticky from our club president this morning
FWC and DOACS
As many of you may know the FWC could/will have an impact on our club and the LFS we deal with. Jeff, the President of SWMAS, has forwarded his interactions with FWC and the DOA. We all need to keep abreast of the new rules and the interpretation of the rules.
"If you haven't read the internet boards by now, FWC was at MACNA and the
comments on the forums have been interesting to say the least.
I know that on Saturday, Jon had a talk with FWC about the written
warnings being issued. I have not had a chance to speak with him about
his conversation. But, on Sunday morning, myself and several members of
TBRC and SWFMAS had a very long conversation at the membership table with
FWC (Lt. Rick Brown and Martha Bademan). I followed up with Tim at PBMAS
and Herman at FMAS.
So, I am going to try to condense an hour+ conversation with FWC into a
few bullet points.
1. There are two separate agencies with different rules. (FWC and DACS)
2. The rules of both agencies were intended to protect/regulate commercial
and farming interests of Florida saltwater products. The language was not
intended for hobbyists, but we fall under the rules as they are currently
written.
3. They recognize that hobbyist aquaculture, frags swaps, etc. is
relatively new and there need to be rule changes to reflect the hobbyist.
4. They are not interested in shutting down the hobby (frag swaps
specifically). They are interested in the "big guys". The commercial
sellers, importers, collectors, etc. The people that the regulations were
originally intended for.
5. They want us, as a group representing the hobbyists in Florida to help
them with the rules and to educate our club member to the current rules
and any future rule changes. They, in turn, need to educate their
enforcement officers in the field as it relates to hobbyist vs.
commercial/farmer, etc.
6. I offered to provide him with the list of contacts for the various
clubs in Florida. (somehow, by the end of the day I had "volunteered" to
take the point as representative of the Florida clubs as a whole with FWC)
By the end of the conversation, we had agreed that we had several goals in
common. First, educate our club members to the current rules. Second,
(this was Rick's point) educate the FWC officers in our individual areas
to the clubs and FWC intentions (no more tickets for tangs on craigslist).
Third, and probably most important, come up with a set of rules (or revise
the old ones) that makes sense to DACS, FWC and the hobbyists as a whole.
So, before I send him the contact list, I have a couple of
comments/questions.
1. Based on my conversation with FWC, TBRC, PBMAS and FMAS, I am the
point of contact for the clubs. However, I realize that Michelle Yingst
(MORE)and Jon Clements (ORCA) have both been involved with FWC as it
relates to the hobbyist issues. So, if one of them wants to take the lead
on this, I have no objection. If not, please pass on your contacts at FWC
so that I may include them in future conversations.
2. DACS (Dept. of Aqriculture, specifically the Aquaculture group) need to
be brought into this discussion. It is possible, as a hobbyist, to be in
compliance with one group while being in violation of the other.
3. Who do you want to represent each of your clubs in this matter? That
is who I will forward as a contact. So, if is not one of you, I need
name, phone number and e-mail address.
4. I have copied MASNA and SE CFM on this e-mail as any resolution to this
issue will probably impact future events they may hold in the State of
Florida. Plus, they may be able to offer some incite if something similar
has occured in another state.
Please respond ASAP as I have promised FWC to be in contact with them this
week. Further, PBMAS is having a frag swap in a couple of weeks. FWC
(Lt. Brown) stated that they should proceed with the frag swap. However,
I would like to have the chance to talk with him so he can "educate" (his
words) his counterparts as it relates to our normal hobbyist activities.
Again, the goal is no more tickets for tangs on craigslist or in my case,
no tickets for my 12 year old club member that typically auctions 5-8
corals at our annual frag swap! There are three more frag swaps/auctions
this year and we (clubs and FWC) have no desire to stop them or issue
citations at them.
Last, it is our goal (SWFMAS) to invite FWC to our October frag swap. I
am hopeful that we can get FWC, DACS and most of you (or your
representative) together to discuss any progress made to that point and to
discuss our future goals. I have a call in to Lt. Brown to discuss my
terms and conditions. They are all invited to come down and go to some
LFS, hobbyist homes and visit our frag swap as a fact finding tour. The
condition is No Tickets!! My goal - show them that in some cases, it not
feasible as a hobbyist to be in compliance and to show them that what we
are doing is a good thing!
If they accept and the group is large, would some of your clubs be willing
to cover the cost of a hotel room for one night? SWFMAS has already paid
for the conference center and we can have a meeting room as part of that
at no additional cost. I know the state of Florida has travel restrictions
to the various agencies. Lt. Brown said he could come down if he could do
it all in an 8-hour day, including travel. I thought if we could offer to
cover hotel, we may be able to get all of them together as a group and get
this things started the right way, instead of trying to deal with a bunch
of individuals separately."
"Ok, Rick from FWC returned my phone call this morning. We spent 45
minutes on the phone. Clarified the enforcement issues from FWC's
perspective. I also have a call into our local state representative (who
also happens to be on the committee for rule changes). FWC policy is very
simple. If we are in compliance with DOACS, we are in compliance with FWC
and they walk away happy.
However, it is possible to be in compliance with FWC and not in compliance
with DOACS (my interpretation, not his). With FWC, it is a records issue
moreso than a hobbyist or a commercial license issue. You can have a
saltwater products license and keep bad records and still get fined by
FWC. As a hobbyist, you don't need the license, but you still need to keep
the records if you are trading or selling with another hobbyist. So no
records = ticket. An aquaculture certificate from DOACS means that you are
the point of origination for the coral and the required FWC records are
satisfied. So, if you do not have an aquaculture certificate but keep good
records as a hobbyist, you can be in compliance with FWC, but not with
DOACS (because you sold a frag without the aquaculture certificate)
Our best plan is to get the rules changed at DOACS to reflect the
hobbyist. Two options that we may want to present are a hobbyist
Certificate of Aquaculture (say $10/year) or, the Florida clubs can try to
get a "blanket" CoA for each club that would cover their club members at
club sponsored events or on a club sponsored website. He liked both ideas
from an FWC perspective.
I also told him of my idea to invite FWC, DOACS and our local State Rep.
to our frag swap in October. He thought that was a great idea and would
probably make things happen faster. He laughed when I said the
stipulation was "NO TICKETS"! (he also agreed whole heartedly) I have a
call into Tallahassee to try to make that happen. He said that it would
most likely be our local FWC office and a fisheries biologist that would
attend on behalf of FWC. Our frag swap is set in stone for October 16. I
am trying to make the meeting on October 15 (Friday) and October 16. I
hope to get them into town early on Friday to give them a "tour" of what a
typical hobbyist set up is and a not so typical hobbyist set up (me).
Hopefully, before the frag swap on the morning of October 16 we can meet
as a group (FWC, DOACS, State Rep. and the club reps). Probably an
unrealistic goal to get two state agencies and a State Rep. together at
the same time."
OK, Martha from FWC returned my call and I spoke with Cal at DOACS. I
still have not heard back from my local State Rep.
Both parties agree that changes need to be made with respect to the hobby.
They were both willing to meet in person and were very happy to have
their counter part from the other agency present.
So, we tentatively have a meeting on October 15 in Fort Myers. This will
be a "fact finding tour" of a LFS, my house and 1-3 "typical" hobbyist
tanks. The intent is to show them what we are doing. Why it is a good
thing. And how the rules currently apply to us, but should not be
applicable to us.
On October 16, before the SWFMAS Frag Swap, we will have a meeting with
the club reps that are present. Primarily to meet with the different
agencies and express your concerns and to pass on the FWC and DOACS
comments to your respective clubs. If you want to stick around and buy
some corals.....great!
Please note that we do not want 100 people from every club present. Well,
OK, we want 100 people from every club at the frag swap, but only 1-2
representatives from each club for the meeting with FWC and DOACS.
Once I recieve confirmation from FWC and DOACS, I will pass it on.
Tentatively, there will be one representative each from DOACS and FWC who
are involved in writing the rules and regs., the local FWC enforcement
officer and a fisheries biologist (probably an FWC employee). And,
hopefully one State Rep."
FWC and DOACS
As many of you may know the FWC could/will have an impact on our club and the LFS we deal with. Jeff, the President of SWMAS, has forwarded his interactions with FWC and the DOA. We all need to keep abreast of the new rules and the interpretation of the rules.
"If you haven't read the internet boards by now, FWC was at MACNA and the
comments on the forums have been interesting to say the least.
I know that on Saturday, Jon had a talk with FWC about the written
warnings being issued. I have not had a chance to speak with him about
his conversation. But, on Sunday morning, myself and several members of
TBRC and SWFMAS had a very long conversation at the membership table with
FWC (Lt. Rick Brown and Martha Bademan). I followed up with Tim at PBMAS
and Herman at FMAS.
So, I am going to try to condense an hour+ conversation with FWC into a
few bullet points.
1. There are two separate agencies with different rules. (FWC and DACS)
2. The rules of both agencies were intended to protect/regulate commercial
and farming interests of Florida saltwater products. The language was not
intended for hobbyists, but we fall under the rules as they are currently
written.
3. They recognize that hobbyist aquaculture, frags swaps, etc. is
relatively new and there need to be rule changes to reflect the hobbyist.
4. They are not interested in shutting down the hobby (frag swaps
specifically). They are interested in the "big guys". The commercial
sellers, importers, collectors, etc. The people that the regulations were
originally intended for.
5. They want us, as a group representing the hobbyists in Florida to help
them with the rules and to educate our club member to the current rules
and any future rule changes. They, in turn, need to educate their
enforcement officers in the field as it relates to hobbyist vs.
commercial/farmer, etc.
6. I offered to provide him with the list of contacts for the various
clubs in Florida. (somehow, by the end of the day I had "volunteered" to
take the point as representative of the Florida clubs as a whole with FWC)
By the end of the conversation, we had agreed that we had several goals in
common. First, educate our club members to the current rules. Second,
(this was Rick's point) educate the FWC officers in our individual areas
to the clubs and FWC intentions (no more tickets for tangs on craigslist).
Third, and probably most important, come up with a set of rules (or revise
the old ones) that makes sense to DACS, FWC and the hobbyists as a whole.
So, before I send him the contact list, I have a couple of
comments/questions.
1. Based on my conversation with FWC, TBRC, PBMAS and FMAS, I am the
point of contact for the clubs. However, I realize that Michelle Yingst
(MORE)and Jon Clements (ORCA) have both been involved with FWC as it
relates to the hobbyist issues. So, if one of them wants to take the lead
on this, I have no objection. If not, please pass on your contacts at FWC
so that I may include them in future conversations.
2. DACS (Dept. of Aqriculture, specifically the Aquaculture group) need to
be brought into this discussion. It is possible, as a hobbyist, to be in
compliance with one group while being in violation of the other.
3. Who do you want to represent each of your clubs in this matter? That
is who I will forward as a contact. So, if is not one of you, I need
name, phone number and e-mail address.
4. I have copied MASNA and SE CFM on this e-mail as any resolution to this
issue will probably impact future events they may hold in the State of
Florida. Plus, they may be able to offer some incite if something similar
has occured in another state.
Please respond ASAP as I have promised FWC to be in contact with them this
week. Further, PBMAS is having a frag swap in a couple of weeks. FWC
(Lt. Brown) stated that they should proceed with the frag swap. However,
I would like to have the chance to talk with him so he can "educate" (his
words) his counterparts as it relates to our normal hobbyist activities.
Again, the goal is no more tickets for tangs on craigslist or in my case,
no tickets for my 12 year old club member that typically auctions 5-8
corals at our annual frag swap! There are three more frag swaps/auctions
this year and we (clubs and FWC) have no desire to stop them or issue
citations at them.
Last, it is our goal (SWFMAS) to invite FWC to our October frag swap. I
am hopeful that we can get FWC, DACS and most of you (or your
representative) together to discuss any progress made to that point and to
discuss our future goals. I have a call in to Lt. Brown to discuss my
terms and conditions. They are all invited to come down and go to some
LFS, hobbyist homes and visit our frag swap as a fact finding tour. The
condition is No Tickets!! My goal - show them that in some cases, it not
feasible as a hobbyist to be in compliance and to show them that what we
are doing is a good thing!
If they accept and the group is large, would some of your clubs be willing
to cover the cost of a hotel room for one night? SWFMAS has already paid
for the conference center and we can have a meeting room as part of that
at no additional cost. I know the state of Florida has travel restrictions
to the various agencies. Lt. Brown said he could come down if he could do
it all in an 8-hour day, including travel. I thought if we could offer to
cover hotel, we may be able to get all of them together as a group and get
this things started the right way, instead of trying to deal with a bunch
of individuals separately."
"Ok, Rick from FWC returned my phone call this morning. We spent 45
minutes on the phone. Clarified the enforcement issues from FWC's
perspective. I also have a call into our local state representative (who
also happens to be on the committee for rule changes). FWC policy is very
simple. If we are in compliance with DOACS, we are in compliance with FWC
and they walk away happy.
However, it is possible to be in compliance with FWC and not in compliance
with DOACS (my interpretation, not his). With FWC, it is a records issue
moreso than a hobbyist or a commercial license issue. You can have a
saltwater products license and keep bad records and still get fined by
FWC. As a hobbyist, you don't need the license, but you still need to keep
the records if you are trading or selling with another hobbyist. So no
records = ticket. An aquaculture certificate from DOACS means that you are
the point of origination for the coral and the required FWC records are
satisfied. So, if you do not have an aquaculture certificate but keep good
records as a hobbyist, you can be in compliance with FWC, but not with
DOACS (because you sold a frag without the aquaculture certificate)
Our best plan is to get the rules changed at DOACS to reflect the
hobbyist. Two options that we may want to present are a hobbyist
Certificate of Aquaculture (say $10/year) or, the Florida clubs can try to
get a "blanket" CoA for each club that would cover their club members at
club sponsored events or on a club sponsored website. He liked both ideas
from an FWC perspective.
I also told him of my idea to invite FWC, DOACS and our local State Rep.
to our frag swap in October. He thought that was a great idea and would
probably make things happen faster. He laughed when I said the
stipulation was "NO TICKETS"! (he also agreed whole heartedly) I have a
call into Tallahassee to try to make that happen. He said that it would
most likely be our local FWC office and a fisheries biologist that would
attend on behalf of FWC. Our frag swap is set in stone for October 16. I
am trying to make the meeting on October 15 (Friday) and October 16. I
hope to get them into town early on Friday to give them a "tour" of what a
typical hobbyist set up is and a not so typical hobbyist set up (me).
Hopefully, before the frag swap on the morning of October 16 we can meet
as a group (FWC, DOACS, State Rep. and the club reps). Probably an
unrealistic goal to get two state agencies and a State Rep. together at
the same time."
OK, Martha from FWC returned my call and I spoke with Cal at DOACS. I
still have not heard back from my local State Rep.
Both parties agree that changes need to be made with respect to the hobby.
They were both willing to meet in person and were very happy to have
their counter part from the other agency present.
So, we tentatively have a meeting on October 15 in Fort Myers. This will
be a "fact finding tour" of a LFS, my house and 1-3 "typical" hobbyist
tanks. The intent is to show them what we are doing. Why it is a good
thing. And how the rules currently apply to us, but should not be
applicable to us.
On October 16, before the SWFMAS Frag Swap, we will have a meeting with
the club reps that are present. Primarily to meet with the different
agencies and express your concerns and to pass on the FWC and DOACS
comments to your respective clubs. If you want to stick around and buy
some corals.....great!
Please note that we do not want 100 people from every club present. Well,
OK, we want 100 people from every club at the frag swap, but only 1-2
representatives from each club for the meeting with FWC and DOACS.
Once I recieve confirmation from FWC and DOACS, I will pass it on.
Tentatively, there will be one representative each from DOACS and FWC who
are involved in writing the rules and regs., the local FWC enforcement
officer and a fisheries biologist (probably an FWC employee). And,
hopefully one State Rep."
greenbean36191
Premium Member
The only success that demonstrates is in Sea Shepard's PR department. 506 whales killed ranks 2009 as the 5th most productive season for the Japanese and only the 5th time they've managed to kill 500 whales in a season. The 4 years that beat 2009 were 2005-2008, all of which Sea Shepard was active for. Every single year that Sea Shepard has been active in the Southern Ocean, more whales have been taken than any years prior to their involvement.
Japan intentionally set their quota higher than what they have the capacity to catch so they would be essentially unrestricted. Comparing their actual catch to the quota doesn't tell you anything about WHY they didn't reach the quota. Is it due to the small size of their fleet, difficulty finding whales, or Sea Shepard's interference? There is no way of knowing, because Sea Shepard has been active the entire time quotas have been that high, so there is no control period to compare against. Using Sea Shepard's logic, they've also been successful in Iceland and Norway which have only caught about 1/2 of their quotas for each of the last 4 or 5 years- 700 whales a year saved by Sea Shepard. In fact, Norway's catch has been declining dramatically since 2006. The only problem is that Sea Shepard hasn't been active in Norway or Iceland during that period.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Sea Shepard has had any measurable impact on the number of whales caught by the Japanese.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Like you said then;
But they may very well be still more variables that affect the calculus.
One thing for sure; The Japanese look much worse and barbaric with every episode to me and that is because Sea Shepards will run up and video the dead whales being dragged up the ramp with a river of warm blood lubricating the way.
Next to them, what other environmental orgs will break a sweat, get wet and take such risks?
Steve
But they may very well be still more variables that affect the calculus.
One thing for sure; The Japanese look much worse and barbaric with every episode to me and that is because Sea Shepards will run up and video the dead whales being dragged up the ramp with a river of warm blood lubricating the way.
Next to them, what other environmental orgs will break a sweat, get wet and take such risks?
Steve
cortez marine
In Memoriam
South Park should do an episode with International Whaling Commision members out with Japanese paid hookers to!
Or the wonderful escapades of that another group fighting for whales like.....like..........eh...........ah...
...e...anyone?
Steve
Or the wonderful escapades of that another group fighting for whales like.....like..........eh...........ah...
...e...anyone?
Steve
Dingo44
New member
And the reason there are no other groups fighting for whales like Sea Shepherd and his band of misfits is because everyone can see how ridiculous he and his crew really are in their feeble and unsuccessful attempts at stoping the Japanese. If they did do what it actually took to stop a whaling boat, i.e. sinking or boarding it, then the Japanese defense force would take their ship and lock them all in jail. Whale Wars is lucky the Japanese see them as a mere nuisance and don't sick commandos on them like the French did to Greenpeace.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
....so who does fight for the whales then???
Dingo44
New member
A lot of people and organizations fight for whales, remember all the "save the whales" bumper stickers in the late 80's and early 90's? They just go about it in a more productive and intelligent way. These other groups aren't in it for sensationalism and self aggrandizing reasons
.
.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
better rough then nothing at all
better rough then nothing at all
The bumper stickers and the calendars were the highest achievement of those earlier phoney, money grubbing organizations.
I remember them well.
They exploited the issue, did nothing for it but raise money for their own administrative costs and fizzled out as the competition from other phoney groups watered down the pool of charity.
Fed up with the timid approach of Greenpeace,Paul Watson found a more courageous backer in Cleveland Amory and has now made history.
Getting between the harpoon and the whales was what set him apart and shamed the office bound, pencil pushers and captured the imagination of millions of people.
And as I asked...who else has done anything or shown a more effective approach.
They who sit on their *** and do nothing should not be so quick to judge those who have risked their lives for a higher cause then the self.
Its the 21st century. Its time to stop killing cetaceans.
Steve
better rough then nothing at all
The bumper stickers and the calendars were the highest achievement of those earlier phoney, money grubbing organizations.
I remember them well.
They exploited the issue, did nothing for it but raise money for their own administrative costs and fizzled out as the competition from other phoney groups watered down the pool of charity.
Fed up with the timid approach of Greenpeace,Paul Watson found a more courageous backer in Cleveland Amory and has now made history.
Getting between the harpoon and the whales was what set him apart and shamed the office bound, pencil pushers and captured the imagination of millions of people.
And as I asked...who else has done anything or shown a more effective approach.
They who sit on their *** and do nothing should not be so quick to judge those who have risked their lives for a higher cause then the self.
Its the 21st century. Its time to stop killing cetaceans.
Steve
- Status
