sell me on LEDS!
- Thread starter kissman
- Start date
You really don't save any money. $120 on bulb per year is a ton. And if you buy an AI sol or something, that's your fault. AI fixtures are far worse than their competitions. I guess the Vega is okay with the programming, but this cost a lot.
Ecoxotics have been known to fail as well due to heat and just overall bad design. I think the newer ones address the problems a little, but you still have to keep them well-ventilated or open-air.
Go with a fixture from Reefbreeders, Maxspect, or maybe Ecotech. Those are the good LED fixtures you can get off-the-shelf.
The Mitras fixtures are way overpriced. $1100 for 190w doesn't scream "good deal" to me. Just buy a Razor.
Curious how the AI sol are so bad, my corals dont seem to agree 
and now with 300 watts of led replacing 1600 watts of halides plus 220 watts of actinics my electric bill is a little better as well. Visually its not quite as good but looking at the financials the leds are a no brainer if your in the hobby for the long haul.
Sol blue-They are not the cheapest or most expensive, but they do work and can penetrate up to 4 foot depths which might not factor into a 55 gallon tank but since they are small they can grow with your setup.
Whatever led's you go with , be careful to ramp the power up slowly , you will be surprised how much par they can put out and not look extremely blinding like 400 mh's can.
and now with 300 watts of led replacing 1600 watts of halides plus 220 watts of actinics my electric bill is a little better as well. Visually its not quite as good but looking at the financials the leds are a no brainer if your in the hobby for the long haul.
Sol blue-They are not the cheapest or most expensive, but they do work and can penetrate up to 4 foot depths which might not factor into a 55 gallon tank but since they are small they can grow with your setup.
Whatever led's you go with , be careful to ramp the power up slowly , you will be surprised how much par they can put out and not look extremely blinding like 400 mh's can.
Curious how the AI sol are so bad, my corals dont seem to agree
and now with 300 watts of led replacing 1600 watts of halides plus 220 watts of actinics my electric bill is a little better as well. Visually its not quite as good but looking at the financials the leds are a no brainer if your in the hobby for the long haul.
Sol blue-They are not the cheapest or most expensive, but they do work and can penetrate up to 4 foot depths which might not factor into a 55 gallon tank but since they are small they can grow with your setup.
Whatever led's you go with , be careful to ramp the power up slowly , you will be surprised how much par they can put out and not look extremely blinding like 400 mh's can.
AI grows stuff, but not as well as many fixtures out there in their price range. And while it's great that the Sol blue can penetrate so far, so can every other fixture out there.
UlyssesG305
New member
Kessil led's are great!! I have one in my nano and would like to add them to my other two tanks. Kessil lights are super expensive in comparison to Chinese boxes. The goosenecks are great and look super clean.
My 60g has a Apollo LED the tank has been set up for 6 months and not much sps growth at all.
My 150g has had softy growth with power compacts. I can't wait to switch the power compacts. I want led's . Any suggestions?
My 60g has a Apollo LED the tank has been set up for 6 months and not much sps growth at all.
My 150g has had softy growth with power compacts. I can't wait to switch the power compacts. I want led's . Any suggestions?
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ChuckChuck
New member
Check this out
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/aafeature
The key tidbit of info I found amusing, the fact that some corals DIED and NONE survived under LED's.
I'm sure it's only some species, but it just reinforces the fact that led's with nothing else, is not acceptable for replacing the sun.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/aafeature
The key tidbit of info I found amusing, the fact that some corals DIED and NONE survived under LED's.
I'm sure it's only some species, but it just reinforces the fact that led's with nothing else, is not acceptable for replacing the sun.
Asid, please explain how an 80 % monthly power reduction on lighting, and side benefit of less evaporation so my 800 watt dehumidifier runs less is not really "saving any money" not replacing 4 $80 bulbs every 9-12 months, the lights pay themselves off in 4 bulb changes while the whole time the power meter spins 80% less. the 5-10th bulb changes come out to free..... take a look at the total cost of ownership
penetration depth is largely dictated by the optics in this case the ai sol using 40 and 70 degree optics,,, many fixtures use wider optics like 90 or 120 optics on 2 watt bridgelux bulbs, which works in shallow tanks very well. I have a reefbreeders chinese led it works fine, but it does not even come close on par numbers at 36-48 inch depth. the cheap chinese blue leds seem to last, but the white ones dont have the same coatings liek the higher end cree bulbs, so would not expect them to last as long.
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penetration depth is largely dictated by the optics in this case the ai sol using 40 and 70 degree optics,,, many fixtures use wider optics like 90 or 120 optics on 2 watt bridgelux bulbs, which works in shallow tanks very well. I have a reefbreeders chinese led it works fine, but it does not even come close on par numbers at 36-48 inch depth. the cheap chinese blue leds seem to last, but the white ones dont have the same coatings liek the higher end cree bulbs, so would not expect them to last as long.
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Khemul
New member
Who is trying to replace the sun? Have you seen what the sun does to coral colors? The last thing lighting fixtures are trying to replicate is the sun. :lol:
One of the things to keep in mind is the availability of parts or service to your LED unit a couple of years down the road. The theoretical lifespan of an LED at 50,000 hrs is total marketing bogus. LEDs, circuit boards, power supplies, fans are failing in LED fixtures all the time.
I have zero confidence that if my power supply burns out in four or five years, or if some LED burn out that I can get the fixture repaired or be able to buy a replacement power supply, etc. from the manufacturer with the Chinese made fixtures like Reefbreeders/Evergrown or Maxspect for example.
I guess it's my background in engineering coming into play in my decision. Some factors I considered in my decision:
a) US made company (not a US importer)
b) Personal level of service
c) Simplicity of design - more electronics and moving parts like fans, more change of unit failure
d) Light spectrum
e) Ability to dim, ability to interface with a controller.
Based on these factors I went with a 36" Build My LED - Custom Reef Spectrum fixture. I've had it a couple of weeks over my 50g reef and could not be happier with the light (running it at only 60% brightness), it's quality engineering (waterproof and with unique rotatable tank mounts), the personal service I received in getting advice before and during purchase, the 3 year warranty and my confidence that I'll be able to get parts or repairs out of warranty from this Texas USA company.
Best of luck with your decision, just some more things to think about, irrespective of which LED fixture you go with.
I have zero confidence that if my power supply burns out in four or five years, or if some LED burn out that I can get the fixture repaired or be able to buy a replacement power supply, etc. from the manufacturer with the Chinese made fixtures like Reefbreeders/Evergrown or Maxspect for example.
I guess it's my background in engineering coming into play in my decision. Some factors I considered in my decision:
a) US made company (not a US importer)
b) Personal level of service
c) Simplicity of design - more electronics and moving parts like fans, more change of unit failure
d) Light spectrum
e) Ability to dim, ability to interface with a controller.
Based on these factors I went with a 36" Build My LED - Custom Reef Spectrum fixture. I've had it a couple of weeks over my 50g reef and could not be happier with the light (running it at only 60% brightness), it's quality engineering (waterproof and with unique rotatable tank mounts), the personal service I received in getting advice before and during purchase, the 3 year warranty and my confidence that I'll be able to get parts or repairs out of warranty from this Texas USA company.
Best of luck with your decision, just some more things to think about, irrespective of which LED fixture you go with.
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Scotty1772
New member
love my Reefbreeder Photon. I moved away from T5's and haven't looked back
deepseadan
New member
When I bought my ai sols almost everyone here at reef central were raving about them. They had just come out with the royal blues and I was hard pressed to find an unhappy review. Boy, a couple years down the road and now it's rare to find a positive review. I dropped $1400 on three fixtures. If I was to buy 3 radion pro fixtures at $900 each, that's $2700. That would be a lot of $120 bulb replacements, what maybe 20 years or so. Currently I have a wavepoint t5 4 bulb fixture with ati bulbs. Everything in my reef, including sps are super happy. My wavepoint fixture was $245 out the door + $90 for new ati bulbs. There's also electricity. My ai sols were around 70 watts each. That's 210 watts. My wavepoint fixture uses around 230. Not much savings there.
I not trying to be a pain, I've just been there and done that. I do have to say though, if LEDs came way down in price, I might give them another chance. For me, they would have to be priced comparable to a standard t5 fixture, which "I" know for a fact will grow any coral I put under it.
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chadfarmer
Premium Member
your not the only 1, I bought 6 ai sols about 2 years ago. I lost money on led. 600 than had to rebuy a power module
Khemul
New member
The thing is the time-frame. Corals bleaching from too little light doesn't happen instantly. Some instances, where it happens over a long period of time could probably be too little light. There are plenty of these cases out there, where things deteriorate over the course of weeks or months. But when people talk about LEDs "cooking" their corals, they usually mean relatively quickly, days. Corals can go without light for days without a problem, so odds are a coral bleaching out right after the LEDs go on is from too much light.
But there are plenty of fixtures that are plain horrible and will cause the too little light issue over the long-term. Unfortunately, most of the 'affordable' ones that appear in LFS's fall in that category. About the only affordable fixtures that are good and cheap are either DIY or Chinese. And the expensive ones, while nice toys for a lot of people, aren't really any more economical then the fixtures they replace in the long-run.
You overbought LEDs. You don't need 210w of LED to replace 230W of Wavepoint. The Radion is a good fixture but is rather expensive; using it as an example of price isn't really "fair". The cheapest ones on the market right now are the Reefbreeders/Evergrow fixtures. Cheap and full spectrum. Or if you want Cree leds, you go with Maxspect.
DIY fixtures are even cheaper and can be made to your specifications. Plus, if you already have a T5 fixture, you could just retrofit it in when you would normally replace bulbs, thus saving money on replacements and on a new fixture.
It all depends on the situation. You could also sell your Wavepoint. And if the AI leds are only slightly used, you could just sell them back.
Ron Reefman
Active member
I just read the entire article. They make a lot of excuses for why some corals didn't do well and leds were only a factor. But show me where they said "NONE SURVIVED".
And just to show how poorly their 'science' was done, I have 2 corals they said did poorly in their test, and they are both growing just fine under my leds. They had issues going on in their test besides lighting and they even admitted it in their conclusions. Better luck with your next try.
UlyssesG305
New member
Kessil a150 is doing great in my nano. I would like putting them in my 150g tank. They are expensive
60* optics are good for up to around 30". And you can always switch out the optics for 45* or 30* ones.
And if you save money with T5 lighting, you will save MORE with LED lighting. You say the bulb changes pay for themselves, but that means with LED lighting you will spend even less. Your logic is a little flawed.
Anyway, those "bridgelux" leds are not actually bridgelux brand; they're just called that. They will get the job done and are very good, but you get better efficiency with Cree or Luxeon leds. According to studies, Cree leds are 2x more efficient than Chinese knockoff bridgelux leds. I have not heard of the leds themselves dying, but I have not actively searched for information on that.
The best light fixture you are going to get will be a homebrew DIY led fixture. You can customize the spectrum with a lot of hyper violets in the 420nm range and save a lot of money, even over a Reefbreeders.
Drivers burning out is very rare, unless they go above 200* C. Meaning keep them in open air and they will live for many years.
And fans burning out is also a non problem; I have run fans 10 hours a day for 2 years out a of an even older power compact retrofit fixture, and it still lives. I put leds into that thing more than 2 years ago, and it runs fine even today. And let's say the fans burn out; you still only pay something in the neighborhood of $10 to replace it.
Also, you can replace drivers in the event that they burn out. You just rewire the current driver. If it's a fixture with good controllability, then it's probably dimmed with PWM, meaning that you replace the driver with a PWM controllable driver. It's not a lot of work.
Build My Led is on par with the Mitras in terms of price. I'm not paying $100 for 12w of led. That's actually more than a Mitras.
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