sell me on LEDS!

[asid61]

I live in California, in an area where it can get up to about 95*F outside in the summer.
I used a 250w metal halide over my 44 gallon pentagon, and a chiller was unneeded. I jusr ran a couple fans to blow the hot air away.

 

[asid61]

Even an 8-bulb T5 shouldn't heat a tank enough to require a chiller. Maybe enough to keep the heaters off (which is the flip side to LED energy savings, less heat in the tank means the heaters run longer). Even a MH, if the setup isn't enclosed and has the air-flow to push the heat away. An in-wall or canopy setup may need a chiller, but even those could be setup to not need one. It just may not be worth it for the builder, since they may want the chiller anyways for backup.

I never thought of the heater running longer as in issue. Interesting viewpoint.

 

[kissman]

Six months under EverGrow IT2080 (480w) after 3 years of MH, t5 and led stunners (1260w). The lights are cheaper to run, my chiller runs about 1/10th as much as it did before and my A/C won't need to run as much either. Oh, and my corals (all of them, sps,lps and softies) are growing as fast or faster than before!



Two weeks before I switched to leds (the end of Dec 2012) this hanging colony of birdsnest was barely an inch long with one broken end and 3 VERY tiny tips at the growing end. Less than 6 months later it's 5" in diameter and 4" tall and still growing like a weed.



This is why I've been a big advocate for EverGrow fixtures. The work, they run cool, you can swap out leds, they have nice built-in controllers, they are the best deal going in led fixtures. kissman, I know you fear the inexpensive Chinese hardware, but look at OceanRevive (a US West Coast company) and the warranty on both EverGrow lights (OR is a distributor) and their own OR fixture (the first of a new line coming over the next year). :thumbsup:

Thanks Ron, 2 things I have noticed betweem OceanRevive and ReefBreeders. OceanRevive I don't see a 48" fixture and only has a 1 year warranty. Reefbreeders has a 48" fixture and a 2 year warranty. Reefbreeders is also working on legs to be able to mount the fixture on the tank which is nice since I don't have the option of hanging right now

Gorgeous tank!

 

[deepseadan]

Either you have heat issues or you don't.
95% of the time the lights aren't an issue, if you have heat issues already than lighting may put it over the top, but needing a chiller with T5? Lol. That's funny.

Buy efficient pumps and keep the heat in the tank as low as possible.

Yeah, I have a chiller because I got it with my used setup, but it never really turns on. The t5s don't run very hot, but I do have two canopy fans blowing on my fixture to keep bulb temp down so they will last longer. My biggest heat creator was my my rio 26hf. When I switched to my iwaki pump, the chiller went into hibernation.

 

[that Fish Guy]

Either you have heat issues or you don't.
95% of the time the lights aren't an issue, if you have heat issues already than lighting may put it over the top, but needing a chiller with T5? Lol. That's funny.

Buy efficient pumps and keep the heat in the tank as low as possible.

You can use a cheap fan no problem with T5's.

Definetly no need for a Chiller.

 

[that Fish Guy]

I was trying to look for shimmer, but I don't think there were any. Must not be mh or led, unless the camera just didn't show it. I've never thought much about what the Europeans are using, but I do know the Germans have the best t5 and mh bulbs. Seems almost all led companies are either us or Chinese.

ATI LED is German.
I think the GHL Mitras is German as well.
More high quality German LED's will come out so no need to worry about that.

 

[CaptiveReef]

Tank under 240 watts LED's

Tank under 240 watts LED's

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvidmg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv344%2FCaptiveReef%2FMOV00751.mp4">

 

[indecloudzua]

Kessil led's are great!! I have one in my nano and would like to add them to my other two tanks. Kessil lights are super expensive in comparison to Chinese boxes. The goosenecks are great and look super clean.

My 60g has a Apollo LED the tank has been set up for 6 months and not much sps growth at all.

My 150g has had softy growth with power compacts. I can't wait to switch the power compacts. I want led's . Any suggestions?

Which spectrum are you using??im trying to decide on what to do with my biocube 29 and the kessil is on the list of possibilities..

 

[dragonfly1972]

I recently purchased the Fathom LED hydras. I love them. I got the upgrade on both. Everything in my tank is doing great and I'm seeing beautiful colors.
I like that the owner is in NY. His customer service is amazing. I called him with questions and he was so helpful.
Great guy..great product

 

[ws6kid]

I love the LEDs for the customization and the safe heat levels when I want to get my hand in the tank. I have had 2 Photon Reefbreeders fixtures for about 5 months and everything looks great. I don't keep any sps, just LPS, Anemones, and Zoas. No color loss or anything of that nature. Had them at 50% for the first month, 60% the next, and have had them at 70% for a few months. Going to up them a little more finally.

I think the biggest downside to them is the shadows they cast. Darker caves in the rockwork. The LEDs all have to be close to each other enough so that you wont see a red spot next to a blue spot on the reef. Also, the fixtures are all flat. The MH reflector is really great for spreading the light throughout the tank. I think this is the reason a lot of people end up with way too much lighting when we go to LED. It takes a few more fixtures or larger fixtures to keep the entire aquarium lit up and the LED is visually softer when not running at 100% than the MH bulb. So we end up with too much light cranked up because of how we are used to seeing the tank. Of course, there is die off and bleaching so they aren't as good, right?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Thanks Ron, 2 things I have noticed betweem OceanRevive and ReefBreeders. OceanRevive I don't see a 48" fixture and only has a 1 year warranty. Reefbreeders has a 48" fixture and a 2 year warranty. Reefbreeders is also working on legs to be able to mount the fixture on the tank which is nice since I don't have the option of hanging right now

Gorgeous tank!

Thanks. It's almost 4 years old now.

Reef Breeders is really a good outfit. Having legs would be a nice extra.

OceanRevive is new and just getting started. But OR is doing their own lights as well as being a distributor for EG. And I know there is a next generation of OR fixtures that will be released in the next month or two. You are right about the 48" EG. I think OR is so new they haven't seen any demand yet.

 

[kb3777]

The #1 reason to switch is you don't have to buy bulbs anymore and there is no degradation of spectrum.

 

[kissman]

I will say that out of all the research I have done, it does seem that more people are happier with the ReefBreeders or similar LEDs rather than the more expensive ones. I see a lot of people that buy the Radions, or the AI's and some others and end up going back to either T5's or MH. But seems the people that bought the Reefbreeder fixtures love them and stay with them

 

[Ron Reefman]

I think a lot of people buy Radions or AI and are happy with them so you never hear from them, they have been around for several years now. I had a Radion and it worked fine over my frag tank. But $750 for an led fixture that I could replace with a EverGrow D120 for $130 in a group buy? I'd be crazy not too. So I got 3 of them, 1 for the frag tank and 2 for my local/QT and sold the Radion to pay for all 3 EverGrow D120 and then some!

People are talking up Reef Breeders, EverGrow and OceanRevive because they are relatively new to the market and MUCH less expensive than Radion or AI. That's why all the positive feedback. There is nothing wrong with Radion or AI except the price! :lol:

I have had 2 EG IT2080's on my 180g DT, an EG IT2040 over my anemone tank, 2 EG D120 over my QT since late Dec 2012 (6 months now) and they have all worked perfectly. I have an OceanRevive Arctic S026 over my frag tank and will be switching the QT to the S026 as well. It's a better fixture than the EG D120 or RB Value Fixture IMHO. :thumbsup:

 

[kissman]

Thanks for clearing that up Ron. May i ask how does the RB Group Buy work?

 

[Swip]

Thanks for clearing that up Ron. May i ask how does the RB Group Buy work?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2298501&page=2 post #50.

 

[Khemul]

I think a lot of people buy Radions or AI and are happy with them so you never hear from them ...

Yep, basic retail psychology. The gap widens as the price goes up, but people are more likely to complain about a product then to praise it. Basically, if all goes well then the people are happy and have no reason to give feedback because the product works as advertised. When the people are not happy then they want to vent and inform others of their unhappiness. So for every complaints there are a number of quiet happy people who say nothing (something the FCC never learned). The higher the price (and/or perceived quality) the more likely people will complain if unhappy. It's why we tend to look at the relative volume of complaints, rather then the absolute amount when judging a product. A hundred complaints sounds like a lot on paper, but if tens of thousands of units are sold, it isn't nearly as bad as it looks.

This is (part of) why, for instance, you'll see someone post if their Vortech wears out, but if a Koralia wears out it is tossed out in passing ("looking to replace my Koralia that just died, what should I get?" vs "MY VORTECH JUST STOPPED WORKING!"). The price is higher and the perceived quality is higher on the Vortech so they are more angry over a breakdown. Same with LEDs right now.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Thanks for clearing that up Ron. May i ask how does the RB Group Buy work?

I did my group buy direct with EverGrow in China (before Reef Breeders was selling them I think... or at least I didn't know about them). We had 10 people and we bought 24 fixtures for a total of just over $5000. I covered all 4 of my tanks with 6 fixtures for what I would have spent on 2 Radions, and I would have needed 4 just for my 180g DT. It has an 18" wide hazy glass brace in the middle and I'd need 2 Radions on either side of it! It was just way too good to pass up!

 

[gcarroll]

Stay away from AI (iPhone equivalent of aquarium LEDs).

And what makes this bad?

Is it the fact that their build quality is excellent?

Is it the fact that they have great fit and finish?

Is it the fact that the controllability is very polished and works with little explaination?

Is it the fact that they are available in white and black?


Where they score big bonus points is that they have been upgradable from generation to generation?

 

[deepseadan]

Yep, basic retail psychology. The gap widens as the price goes up, but people are more likely to complain about a product then to praise it. Basically, if all goes well then the people are happy and have no reason to give feedback because the product works as advertised. When the people are not happy then they want to vent and inform others of their unhappiness. So for every complaints there are a number of quiet happy people who say nothing (something the FCC never learned). The higher the price (and/or perceived quality) the more likely people will complain if unhappy. It's why we tend to look at the relative volume of complaints, rather then the absolute amount when judging a product. A hundred complaints sounds like a lot on paper, but if tens of thousands of units are sold, it isn't nearly as bad as it looks.

This is (part of) why, for instance, you'll see someone post if their Vortech wears out, but if a Koralia wears out it is tossed out in passing ("looking to replace my Koralia that just died, what should I get?" vs "MY VORTECH JUST STOPPED WORKING!"). The price is higher and the perceived quality is higher on the Vortech so they are more angry over a breakdown. Same with LEDs right now.

I guess that might be true, but how many people complain about mh or t5's. I can't hardly remember the last time someone complained about a $700 ati t5 fixture. That's right in the price range of "quality" LEDs.