Show me you pictures of mis-barred/unusual clowns
- Thread starter oceanarus
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oceanarus
New member
BonsaiNut said:
Interesting point and well taken. But I think that is a completely different situation. With dogs, there isn't a supply of 'wild specimins' of each breed that can be drawn from to refresh the gene pool if it gets a little tainted. Therefore dog breeders have a great responsibility on them to keep the particular breed they have pure and of the best quality. Besides each dog breed came about because some one liked/desired a particular trait (can burrow in rabbit hole, pull a sled, has a mis bar, etc.) and selectivly bred that dog to obtain that trait.
crgeltn
Member
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
Why is it such a big no-no breeding saltwater hybrids? It is done with just about every type of freshwater fish. Just look at bettas, goldfish, koi, discus. Just to name a few. I would understand the saltwater thing if these fish were endangered but most are not. I also do not see 99.9999% of these fish being returned to the wild or even surviving in the wild after being captive bred. So what is the big deal? Or is it just being environmentally PC? I do however understand having a pure bred fish but they also don't come with papers.
I posted that my tomato/cinnamon and cinnamon clown spawned and got no responses when asking for advise. Wonder why?:rolleye1: I do however belive that cross breeding and hybrids will be accepted once someone breeds a flourescent purple clown. Too many purist nerds in this hobby! But I bet those same nerds would get on line to buy one of those purple clowns. Flame away!!!
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
Why is it such a big no-no breeding saltwater hybrids? It is done with just about every type of freshwater fish. Just look at bettas, goldfish, koi, discus. Just to name a few. I would understand the saltwater thing if these fish were endangered but most are not. I also do not see 99.9999% of these fish being returned to the wild or even surviving in the wild after being captive bred. So what is the big deal? Or is it just being environmentally PC? I do however understand having a pure bred fish but they also don't come with papers.
I posted that my tomato/cinnamon and cinnamon clown spawned and got no responses when asking for advise. Wonder why?:rolleye1: I do however belive that cross breeding and hybrids will be accepted once someone breeds a flourescent purple clown. Too many purist nerds in this hobby! But I bet those same nerds would get on line to buy one of those purple clowns. Flame away!!!
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
Re: Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
Re: Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
Hey if you hybridize clowns in such a way that some of them are purple, that's cool with me. Just don't call them A. percula (or whatever). Call them "Crgeltn's Purple Monsters"
What we are talking about are two different things. On one hand there is a group of people that want to create cool/funky fish and want to hybridize. On the other hand, there are people that are trying to raise fish that remain as close as possible to the natural holotype. In my opinion, these are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. I think there is room for both, and I think there is value in both. However, don't do one thing, and try to sell it as the other
Re: Blah, Blah, Blah!!!!
crgeltn said:Why is it such a big no-no breeding saltwater hybrids?... ...But I bet those same nerds would get on line to buy one of those purple clowns. Flame away!!!
Hey if you hybridize clowns in such a way that some of them are purple, that's cool with me. Just don't call them A. percula (or whatever). Call them "Crgeltn's Purple Monsters"
What we are talking about are two different things. On one hand there is a group of people that want to create cool/funky fish and want to hybridize. On the other hand, there are people that are trying to raise fish that remain as close as possible to the natural holotype. In my opinion, these are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. I think there is room for both, and I think there is value in both. However, don't do one thing, and try to sell it as the other
crgeltn
Member
BonsaiNut,
Thanks for your reply. I kinda got off in the wrong direction.(looong day) Just a hypothisis but could the clowns be becoming mis-barred or losing their bars as a part of natural evolution or tank raised evolution? I only make this suggestion since predation is null and the tank raised gene pool is limited while the rate of tank breeding is increased compared to wild spawning due to perfect selected breeding environments. It also seems that this also happens in both the wild and tank raised fry. Just remember that evolution happens slowly in the wild and the speed of evolution can be increased in captive breeding and animals will evolve with their environment. It could also just be that there is alot of inbred clowns out there.
Thanks for your reply. I kinda got off in the wrong direction.(looong day) Just a hypothisis but could the clowns be becoming mis-barred or losing their bars as a part of natural evolution or tank raised evolution? I only make this suggestion since predation is null and the tank raised gene pool is limited while the rate of tank breeding is increased compared to wild spawning due to perfect selected breeding environments. It also seems that this also happens in both the wild and tank raised fry. Just remember that evolution happens slowly in the wild and the speed of evolution can be increased in captive breeding and animals will evolve with their environment. It could also just be that there is alot of inbred clowns out there.
eco-tropic
New member
I think everyone makes some outstanding point hear. As indicated, there is no wrong or right in miss barred fish, God knows there are plenty to go around. I think the whole point was that there does need to be some conscious effort to keep things as clean as possible for future projects. With that said I think BonsaiNut sums it up best. There is plenty of room for both schools of thought.
oceanarus,
You are correct in that miss-barring is not the results of faulty genetics. I have seen miss-barred pairs of many clowns produce thousands of fry that fell into the "acceptable" standards. Frank Hoff's observations on delayed metamorphosis was based on insufficient rotifers, brine, & poor water quality. The aforementioned were direct contributors to delayed metamorphosis. My past experience seemed to confirm his observation, but....as with everything there were exceptions.
oceanarus,
You are correct in that miss-barring is not the results of faulty genetics. I have seen miss-barred pairs of many clowns produce thousands of fry that fell into the "acceptable" standards. Frank Hoff's observations on delayed metamorphosis was based on insufficient rotifers, brine, & poor water quality. The aforementioned were direct contributors to delayed metamorphosis. My past experience seemed to confirm his observation, but....as with everything there were exceptions.
cschweitzer
New member
Not the times, just our perspectives of it...
...
AquaReeferMan
Got Reef?
I got a question now. Since I am understanding the miss-bar topic, whats up with the Snow Flake Percula's?
colby
In Memoriam
ALL "Snowflake" clowns come from a single pair of normal barred Ocellaris...presumably the U.K....at least that is where they are being distributed from.
Only a small number of the batch result in snowflake coloring and to my knowledge nobody yet knows what the F2 progeny look like...
HTH
Colby
Only a small number of the batch result in snowflake coloring and to my knowledge nobody yet knows what the F2 progeny look like...
HTH
Colby
