Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[gsxunv04]

very interesting concept al, good idea too. some major DIY ing going on at your place

good idea with the CL air pump for stirring, much more simpler than the "boat" propeller you had

 

[ReeferAl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12128069#post12128069 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gsxunv04
good idea with the CL air pump for stirring, much more simpler than the "boat" propeller you had

I agree, although I am finding that even with the airflow from the pump wide open it still doesn't stir as well as the propeller. I think it's worth the trade off though.
Allen

 

[gsxunv04]

what if you use a circular style airstone? may make a bigger flow pattern.

notice any bad/unusual smells coming from the cooler or when yu open it up to add new or clean it?

 

[ReeferAl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12130342#post12130342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gsxunv04
what if you use a circular style airstone? may make a bigger flow pattern.

notice any bad/unusual smells coming from the cooler or when yu open it up to add new or clean it?

I've thought of getting a different airstone but haven't gotten around to it.
Right now the food is actually in a 2 gal jug inside the dorm fridge. It goes out via tubing through the wall of the fridge. I still use a gravity feed thru a solenoid so the fridge is mounted near the ceiling.

As far as smell, not really any worse than normal. The food always smells pretty fishy and not what most people would consider pleasant, but not foul.

Allen

 

[ReeferAl]

BTW, I don't really want to hijack this thread. I'd be happy to discuss this further in the other thread or by PM. I don't want to get too far off the original topic.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I got a PM with some questions. I am posting the answer here for the benefit of others:

Bean,

Im going to use your overflow design on my new tank and have a few questions.

1.) Is there any specific purpose as to why you used a "Sanitary T" fitting on the siphon tube? Couldnt a pair of 90 degree elbows accomplish the same thing?

2.) Did you glue all of the PVC together on the siphon tube to prevent air from entering the tube, or are the fittings all dry fitted?

3.) Im planning on feeding my skimmer from the secondary "open"tube and was thinking of tying the "open" and "emergency" tubes together into one 1.5" pipe before reaching the skimmer so that all of the "non-siphon" and "startup" water goes through the skimmer. Any thoughts on this?

BTW... You are a CAD maniac!

1) The tees were used for a few reasons. They are equipped with screw on caps (sealed with teflon tape). This allows A) The caps can be removed so that the standpipes can be cleaned or serviced from the top. B) any standpipe to be used in any of the three roles. I chose to use the Sanitary-Tees because they will create slightly less turbulance. In theory this will increase the capacity a little and at the same time reduce the noise.

2) You must glue all of the fittings. If you do not, air will leak in and the siphon will be noisy (it will cavitate, just like a pump) and less efficient. This is true for the open channel and emergency standpipes as well. They will work fine with air leaks under normal operation but will fail if needed in failsafe mode. The siphon can also be fairly voilent as it purges the air, you don't want the pipes moving around during this time.

3) I would not connect the emergency standpipe to any of the other standpipes. Doing so somewhat defeats the purpose of have an independent failsafe that is not associated with the normal operating functions. Also, if the 3rd standpipe DOES kick in during startup, the extra flow is likely to cause the skimmer to overflow, as it will be set to run without that extra flow normally.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ohh and I am not a CAD maniac... I am not very efficient or proficient at CAD. If you knew how long that took you, you would laugh.

 

[Tswifty]

Bean,

I have my plumbing all hooked up (not tested yet) and was wondering if you could take a look and let me know your thoughts.

I Tee'd off the syphon standpipe to feed the fuge and intake sections, which will be controlled by a ballvalve. I wasn't crazy about doing this, because I am sure the Tee will cause at least some turbulence and noise now.

Thanks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12153380#post12153380

 

[Siffy]

You may need another ball valve on the intake section if you're not getting enough flow to the refugium even with its valve wide open. The Tee shouldn't cause any noise as long as there is no air inside the pipes. They appear that they will be submerged, so from the looks of it you did a good job.

My glass hole saw was delivered yesterday, so I'll be doing mine soon. Much like yours, but I think I'm going to try 4 holes with 2 siphons. One as a skimmer feed and the other as a RDSB feed.

 

[Tswifty]

Thanks... Yes all the bottom outlets will be submerged... I thought I should have added another ball valve just in case... too bad it was after I already had it sealed in place... haha. Hopefully it wont be an issue.

 

[MeuserReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12152895#post12152895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Ohh and I am not a CAD maniac... I am not very efficient or proficient at CAD. If you knew how long that took you, you would laugh.

Well you sure fooled me!

Thanks for the input Bean. I really appreciate your guidance.

I just realized that by having the emergency drain tie into the open pipe before reaching the sump would also pretty much negate all of the safety that this system offers. By having the emergency drain connect to the open drain, the open drain couldnt (ever) become a siphon in the event of a blockage of the primary siphon drain because the up-turned elbow on the emergency pipe would allow air into the secondary siphon (the open tube in failsafe mode)

Not to mention that an overflowing skimmer is also BAD

 

[Tswifty]

Holy Crap!!! I just hooked up the plumbing and got it running... DEAD SILENT!!! The only noise is the vibration from my pump... This is 10 times quieter than my 55g tank!!!

Amazing!!!

Thanks Bean!!!

 

[BeanAnimal]

You're Welcome


Now close some valves down and similate different standpipes becoming fully clogged... watch how the overflow recovers from just about any problem you can throw at it. Also notice how self tuning it is over a wide range of water levels in the overflow box (you can simulate this for any siphon valve setting by throttling the return pump to different levels).

Bean

 

[Tswifty]

Ok.. I think I may have a problem.. or well not a big one at least... I'm getting gurgling out of the syphon standpipe. The syphon is pulling water out of the calfo faster than the return pump can replenish... Therefore I closed the valve on the syphon standpipe a little to raise the water level in the calfo... However when I do this the open channel standpipe kicks in...

Is there a way to fix this or is this just a tuning thing that I'll have to play with to find the right setting?

 

[Tswifty]

The reason I am asking is because when the open channel standpipe has water flowing through it, it is quite noisey.

When I open the syphon standpipe valve the whole way, water stops flowing through the open channel, and the system runs dead silent, until the syphon catches up and begins to gurgle.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The idea is to adjust the valve on the siphon standpipe so that the open channel standpipe DOES kick in. You only want a small amount of flow in the open channel standpipe. If it is making sucking noises, there is too much flow in it . How are you letting air into it?

Once you get the siphon adjusted properly it will self adjust over a fairly large range. That said, I am not sure how well it will self tune with the skimmer attached to it. Varying air and water levels in the skimmer may affect the overall siphon rate.

 

[Tswifty]

Right now I just have the J/G fitting installed in the top of the open channel stand pipe, but the airline tubing is not connected yet.

My skimmer won't be attatched to the system, it will just be running in the intake compartment in my sump.

Ok that's good to hear... it actually quieted down quite a bit now.. there are no more sucking sounds. My calfo is operating at about half full, or about 3/4 of the way up the 90's.

I really like this design... it's amazing how well it works... I think it's one of those things you have to see in action to believe it.

With how I've seen this operate so far... I can definately see how this could pretty much handle almost any type of flow you could throw at it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It takes several minutes (at high flow) for the air to be purged fully from the siphon standpipe. During that time you may hear cavitations from inside the standpipe. This cavitation also reduces the siphon capacity which, in turn, pushed the open channel pipe harder. Once the system purges the air, it quiets down. The plumbing will also soon develop a slime coat that will help the water cascade down the open channel pipe instead of tumbling.

I am glad you got it tuned in (not much trouble at all was it!)

 

[MeuserReef]

You know what this means.... . No going back now!

Thanks Tswifty8 for the report. I have decided not to feed my skimmer from my overflow as I believe it will reduce the failsafe capacity of the system.

 

[JCTewks]

Geez meuser...you did all that plnning, and I was thoughtful enough to put a line on the tank with a marker :lol::lol: