Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12183478#post12183478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
The readers digest version for melev :D

Siphons are silent but hard to keep balanced. Anything more than moderate flow in a typical stockman or durso standpipe is noisy.

The idea is to setup a siphon that does not handle all of the flow from the return pump. The second standpipe simply accepts that flow. The two work hand in hand to self adjust over a wide range. The outcome is silent and pretty much airless setup that is self tuning and safe.

The first standpipe is sealed and does not allow air in, that creates the siphon. The rate of the siphon is controlled by a ball valve.

The second standpipe is similar to a durso or stockman. It allows air in. It is quiet because of the very low flow.

The 3rd standpipe is for safety.

Both the second and third standpipe have features that allow them, to become siphons in the case of a backup in the overflow box.

:)
Click to expand...

I didn't see this added to your webpage yet. :D :lol:
 
I did not know I was catering to ALL of the A.D.D reefers.... I will consider putting a "if you too lazy to read all of this CLICK HERE" link at the top!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12191874#post12191874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I did not know I was catering to ALL of the A.D.D reefers.... I will consider putting a "if you too lazy to read all of this CLICK HERE" link at the top!
Click to expand...

Change that word from <b>lazy</b> to <b>busy</b> and you've got a keeper right there. ;)

And on that note, I have 32000 posts.
 
That was some great reading, I feel like I've just watch Biography!

Bean, just a quick question for you....
I am having a 240g built in the near future and am planning an external overflow. After reading your thread here, I would love to incorporate some of your ideas. I have been following makoJ's build (current tank of the month) for quite some time now and really like his over flow design. Now, based on what I have read here I am pretty sure I can use his design with yours. I guess my questions for you are:

1) I can still cut skimmer teeth into my back glass into the over flow right? This shouldn't restrict too much flow? I was thinking the over flow to be about 2/3 the length of the tank (tank will be 72") with aprox 1.5" teeth.

2) I won't have a lot of room in the rear of my tank as it will be against a wall. I will have by drains from the overflow come from the bottom of the box, not the back.
a. Will the weight of the overflow and drains AND water be two heavy for that size of over flow box? I will be going with a glass over flow, not sure how thick of glass yet.

b. If the drains for the overflow are on the bottom of the box, I will want to extend those pipes up to near the surface of the overflow to simulate what you have done...correct?

c. Also, I assume I won’t need a very deep overflow box. I am thinking at most 5”?

So sorry if this sounds novice, I have just started putting hard thought into the noise factor after reading the thread.

bty, If you ever wrote a book, I would be the first in line to buy it. Thank you so much for all of your insight and sharing your own personal experiences with those of us who are newer to the hobby.
 
1) Yes you can still cut skimmer teeth. Just be aware that they cut down surface skimming and create some sound.

2a) You MUST support the plumbing, no matter what type of overflow box you have. If you look at my renderings you will see how I did it for this setup. A block of wood was cut to fit the profile of the plumbing and Velcro straps were epoxied into the profile. The Velcro straps support the plumbing. Aquaticeco and savko sell plumbing brackets also.

2b) Yup, just like any other standpipe.

2c) 5" or so should be fine. It depends on the size of the standpipes the the flow rate. You don't need a real deep box, but too shallow and the standpipes can create a vortex and suck air.

Thank you for the kind words. The questions are not novice at all. As for a book... I dunno, I have A.D.D. and would likely never finish it and it would ramble from thought to thought and turn into a rant about one thing or another that irritates me.

Good luck and let us know if we can help any more.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12193341#post12193341 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
As for a book... I dunno, I have A.D.D. and would likely never finish it and it would ramble from thought to thought and turn into a rant about one thing or another that irritates me.
Click to expand...

.....which is exactly why we would buy it!!! Theres nothing better than an "educational rant".

Im second in line for a copy :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12185335#post12185335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
Twisty,
Nice plumbing there. I see one thing that could cause catastrophic failure- NO plumbing support. All that plumbing hanging by a bulkhead has the leverage of a crowbar. If you simply bump it, it'll blow the back out of the tank.

Please dont take offense, I see this all the time and am just trying to help avoid a failure.

I like these clamps a lot for strut:

These 2 hole clamps are cheap but effective if you have something solid to mount against. Found in the electrical aisle.:
Click to expand...

I went out and purchased something similiar to your first picture... If you could take a look, and let me know your thoughts, I would appreciate it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310919&perpage=25&pagenumber=10
 
It is good that this idea gets recycled every few years for the new people on the boards. I've been out of the hobby for over three years and am contemplating hopping back in. I have been trying to catch up on all the new and improved ideas and ran across this thread and thought, hey, I'd been doing that for many years. Some things can't be improved on I guess. Nice thread,

Kim
 
1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

I've read this thread with great interest (ok, maybe I missed something but I tried!), as I am designing a custom about 90 gallon 30x25x25 or so reef tank. I am trying to fit 4 bulkheads (3 drains, 1 return) in as small a footprint as possible (3 sides viewable, trying to keep flat to the back center)

My question for people experienced in this field. If starting from scratch and I can choose my bulkhead size.... 1" or 1.5" for the 3 drains? Seems like the one in siphon mode can handle a lot, but if it has a problem, I need the other ones to be able to keep up. No, I don't have a pump chosen, but it seems like people recommend 500-1000 gph into the sump? (plus powerheads/closed loop/whatever also)

Using 1" instead of 1.5" drains (and only 3/4" for the return) would let my overflow box be smaller. But not if it limits my flow too much for a 90g.

Also, if these pipes are coming straight up, don't I only need room in my overflow box for durso-style elbows on 1 of them? The one with the small air hose coming out? Can't the "siphon" one and the emergency drain one just be open vertical pipes of appropriate heights below and above the waterline?
 
Re: 1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

Re: 1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12200860#post12200860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brentj
I've read this thread with great interest (ok, maybe I missed something but I tried!), as I am designing a custom about 90 gallon 30x25x25 or so reef tank. I am trying to fit 4 bulkheads (3 drains, 1 return) in as small a footprint as possible (3 sides viewable, trying to keep flat to the back center)

My question for people experienced in this field. If starting from scratch and I can choose my bulkhead size.... 1" or 1.5" for the 3 drains? Seems like the one in siphon mode can handle a lot, but if it has a problem, I need the other ones to be able to keep up. No, I don't have a pump chosen, but it seems like people recommend 500-1000 gph into the sump? (plus powerheads/closed loop/whatever also)

Using 1" instead of 1.5" drains (and only 3/4" for the return) would let my overflow box be smaller. But not if it limits my flow too much for a 90g.

Also, if these pipes are coming straight up, don't I only need room in my overflow box for durso-style elbows on 1 of them? The one with the small air hose coming out? Can't the "siphon" one and the emergency drain one just be open vertical pipes of appropriate heights below and above the waterline?
Click to expand...

I used 1" bulkheads on this 58g build and now wish I'd have gone with 1-1/2".
So go bigger than you think you need because you can always reduce the pipe sizes.

overflow1.jpg


overflow2.jpg


overflow3.jpg


overflow4.jpg


overflow5.jpg


overflow6.jpg


overflow7.jpg
 
No, in my case it was just cheaper to have a local glass shop route it.
But it's not that difficult with the right bit and a simple guide for the router. Although I would never recommend it, I've seen guys do this freehand with a Dremel. Now that's inspiration.....(or stupidity).
 
If you go with the standpipe setup as described in this thread (and on my web page) you can easily use 1" bulkheads for 500-1000 GPH. It would certainly not hurt to step up to 1.5" bulkheads.

I would not recoemend an open top standpipe for the siphon. It will be prone to creating a vortex and sucking in air. That said, if you design the open channel standpipe to be several inches above the siphon standpipe, it will work.
 
Re: Re: 1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

Re: Re: 1" or 1.5" drains for this method?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12201852#post12201852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GuySmilie
overflow6.jpg
Click to expand...

i just wanted to ask a question about the structural integrity of the overflow: i notice that your flexible drain pipes aren't supported, and that your unions/valves don't appear to be supported either. if that's the case, is the weight of the water + plumbing hanging from the overflow box? my concern is that this would place a lot of stress on the overflox box seams.

thanks.
 
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