Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

uh...."U pipe"?....
I think you might be talking about a different system than discussed in this thread. Have you tried searching the data base for threads pertaining to overflow boxws using U tubes?

Not familiar with over the top of tank plumbing......
T
 
I did but i still can't find the answer. But yes it is a over the top plumbing. I figured someone would have the answer.
 
46g Bowfront

46g Bowfront

I am trying to work up my 46g bowfront tank before i put it together.
I want to see if this is doable, or if something needs to be done differently to make this work.
I am planning on doing a near side to side overflow. The overflow will have 3 1" bulkheads. All the pvc is 1". I am using 1" tee's instead of sanitary since i can't find them anything less than 1.5" locally. They will flow into a 10g (possibly larger) sump.
I plan on doing a split return using a eheim 1260. They will be using 3/4" bulkheads and loc-lines to direct the flow.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestandlees/4706783733/" title="Aquarium by Bama5150-RollTide, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4706783733_ba2b3ba338_b.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="Aquarium" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestandlees/4706783761/" title="Aquarium Top by Bama5150-RollTide, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4706783761_a493bb6273_b.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="Aquarium Top" /></a>
 
Bama,

Sound ok, but I am no expert. But the picture looks like you have the emergency drain with the airline hose. You want the airline hose on the secondary drain (durso ?). That way if it starts to take in water and need to take more a siphon will be created.
 
A few thoughts...

The design will work fine as rendered except the airline needs to be on the open channel, not the emergency:

Other thoughts:

1) You only really need the valve on the SIPHON standpipe... add the others if you like.

2) Put unions on the standpipes (or use true union valves).

3) 1" should ber fine for that pump... but a 1.25" or 1.5" open channel would be better.

4) those standpipes MUST be secured by some type of clamping system. Plumbing should NEVER hang from a bulkhead.

Hve fun :)
 
Ok thanks for catching that, just had the wrong elbow turned up.
I will fasten a fixture to secure the pipe to the table. Any excuse to use our 3dprinter is a good one.

No problems with the threads on the unions? I will try to find some valves.

How do you attach the pipe to your bulkhead? Is it glued in and how would you remove it if so?

Thanks for your time.


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestandlees/4706872855/" title="Aquarium - Redo by Bama5150-RollTide, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4706872855_ab309598d0_b.jpg" width="600" height="480" alt="Aquarium - Redo" /></a>
 
I use SLIP fittings for just about everything, threaded fittings are a PITA. They tend to leak, are restrictive and plumbing is not often moved. Just cement it and be done with it :)\


I am not sure I understand your question about union threads.
 
BeanAnimal said:
I use SLIP fittings for just about everything, threaded fittings are a PITA. They tend to leak, are restrictive and plumbing is not often moved. Just cement it and be done with it :)\


I am not sure I understand your question about union threads.
Click to expand...

Bean may I interject here? I am in the process of plumbing my tank myself... I ordered some threaded bulkheads because in some instances you would never be able to remove a pipe permanently cemented to a bulkhead without sawing it off. I agree that there is few instances where you would need to remove it but in his 3d example above the Tee would not allow the removal of the bulkhead without sawing it off. Just a thought. However, where-ever possible I agree, it should be cemented.

when you get a moment could you also respond to my follow up questions. thanks
 
Bama5150 said:
Ok thanks for catching that, just had the wrong elbow turned up.
I will fasten a fixture to secure the pipe to the table. Any excuse to use our 3dprinter is a good one.

No problems with the threads on the unions? I will try to find some valves.

How do you attach the pipe to your bulkhead? Is it glued in and how would you remove it if so?

Thanks for your time.


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestandlees/4706872855/" title="Aquarium - Redo by Bama5150-RollTide, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4706872855_ab309598d0_b.jpg" width="600" height="480" alt="Aquarium - Redo" /></a>
Click to expand...

Nice 3d-rendering may I ask what program you used to generate it?

as for valves I would look for "cepex true union ball valves" they are real nice. If you can't find it local to you USPLASTICS.COM has them for a good price. They are real nice because they also come with both threaded and slip ends as well as being a double union fitting, so consider that when you look at their price as they are pricy.
 
Coral-
You will find that by just cleaning the fitting or pipe with the clear cleaner ( not the purple primer) and allowing it to dry thoroughy, then applying aquarium silicone to the part inserted into the bulkhead -the inside the overflow side- ( non-threaded) it will be removeable, seal well, and not be the PIA that Bean is trying gently to warn you about.

HTH

T
 
coralcruze said:
Thanks bean for your thoughtful responce although its not exactly what I wanted to hear I kinda figured this responce as there are alot of variables with my tank. I am however, going to assume that I will get pretty consistant flow from one tray to the other because I have the entire tank on some high strength leveling legs (6 of them) so I should be able to controle the flow over the two sides pretty evenly... If however it does not for some reason I could always plumb a 1 1/2" pipe with bulkheads on the back of the tank to connect from one tray to the other to keep a more constant flow between one tray and the other.
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest the connector pipe as an option, but that would of course be a last resort.

Could you give me an idea though about the specific hight differances between the full siphon, the failsafe and the emergency??? even if its a range, I just need to know what I should start with. for example 1/8", 1/4" differance or more???
Click to expand...
The system will function with the siphon and open channel weirs at the same height. However, moving the siphon intake lower simply improves the speed at which it will start. So ANY distance is a move in the right direction :)

The emergency should be set above both the open and siphon, at a level just below actual flood stage. It may or may not kick in during system startup when the siphon has not yet been purged.



also do you know how many MINIMAL GPH it will take to start a full siphon using 1" pipe? I am assuming that I will have somewhere between 300-500 GPH flowing over each side wall... In theory can't I just close the ball valve more if the flow is too low?
Click to expand...
You regulate the siphon with the ball valve. If it is open too much, then the pipe will run open channel or at partial siphon.
 
coralcruze said:
I ordered some threaded bulkheads because in some instances you would never be able to remove a pipe permanently cemented to a bulkhead without sawing it off.
Click to expand...
Yup... and I saw away when I need to :)

In most instances, threaded fittings have a smaller ID than SLIP fittings. So I avoid them for that reason as well.
 
coralcruze said:
Thanks bean for your thoughtful responce although its not exactly what I wanted to hear I kinda figured this responce as there are alot of variables with my tank. I am however, going to assume that I will get pretty consistant flow from one tray to the other because I have the entire tank on some high strength leveling legs (6 of them) so I should be able to controle the flow over the two sides pretty evenly... If however it does not for some reason I could always plumb a 1 1/2" pipe with bulkheads on the back of the tank to connect from one tray to the other to keep a more constant flow between one tray and the other.

Could you give me an idea though about the specific hight differances between the full siphon, the failsafe and the emergency??? even if its a range, I just need to know what I should start with. for example 1/8", 1/4" differance or more??? also do you know how many MINIMAL GPH it will take to start a full siphon using 1" pipe? I am assuming that I will have somewhere between 300-500 GPH flowing over each side wall... In theory can't I just close the ball valve more if the flow is too low?

I guess I am fully commited to this system by now and hope to get it tweaked in just right to call this a success. I realize that there aren't any guarantees with this tank LOL... I 'll keep you posted as plumbing should begin sometime next week when I get all of the fittings. wish me luck. :D
Click to expand...

Even with the leveling legs (which really is not a good idea), as Bean said, you are going to be very hard pressed to find equilibrium between the 2 unconnected overflows. If you are able, you should connect the 2. As far as height difference in the standpipes, The main siphon should be set the lowest, the failsafe up to about 1" higher and the emergency a little higher than the failsafe. Adjusting the valve on the full siphon will also regulate the height of the water in your overflows.

Hope that helps.
 
Question for bean. I'm planning on running this type of system on my 120. Are all three bulkheads drilled at the same height and just the upturned emergency elbow is where the height difference comes in? That is the way I'm reading into this, just want to make sure. Also, how far down from the top of the tank is it recomended to drill? Sorry if these have been asked before.
 
rayn, while it would be easy to answer the questions outright, (and I will if you insist), it would be very beneficial if you read though most of the thread and took a look at my website. In that way you will understand how the system works, as well as what dimensions work well.
 
I'm having a problem I'm hoping you guys can help me with. I got the overflow setup and did a run with freshwater, it was running perfect!! Amazingly silent. So I dumped the freshwater, disconnected everything to give it a final cleaning, and then put sand and rock in the tank and loaded up with saltwater. Now it sounds like the siphon pipe is choking. Every 5 seconds or so, there's like a strange noise that interrupts the flow of water in the siphon pipe. There's also a large quantity of microbubbles visibly coming out of the siphon pipe in the sump.

I tried to close all the valves and manually start the siphon, by opening and closing the valves, but it didn't help. I thought there might be an air leak somewhere, so tightened everything down, checked all the connections, didn't help. Then I went joint by joint, and taped it up with duct tape, didn't do anything either. Since I have union valves on both my siphon and durso pipes, I switched the caps, so that the durso would be the siphon pipe, thinking that if it was an air leak, switching the pipes around might take care of it, because I probably couldn't have an air leak on both pipes. That didn't help either. I let it run overnight, but this morning the problem hasn't gone away.

It is driving me insane...once you hear the super quietness of this overflow I can't stand having any noise coming out of this thing. Does anyone have any advice?
 
coralcruze said:
Nice 3d-rendering may I ask what program you used to generate it?

as for valves I would look for "cepex true union ball valves" they are real nice. If you can't find it local to you USPLASTICS.COM has them for a good price. They are real nice because they also come with both threaded and slip ends as well as being a double union fitting, so consider that when you look at their price as they are pricy.
Click to expand...

Thanks I will look into the cepex.
I used Solidworks 2010.
 
anen said:
I'm having a problem I'm hoping you guys can help me with. I got the overflow setup and did a run with freshwater, it was running perfect!! Amazingly silent. So I dumped the freshwater, disconnected everything to give it a final cleaning, and then put sand and rock in the tank and loaded up with saltwater. Now it sounds like the siphon pipe is choking. Every 5 seconds or so, there's like a strange noise that interrupts the flow of water in the siphon pipe. There's also a large quantity of microbubbles visibly coming out of the siphon pipe in the sump.
Click to expand...

It is either sucking air via a leak in a fitting, or air bubbles are entering through the intake (via vortex or suspended bubbles from the weir).

Duct tape will not fix the air leak :)

Are the fitting threaded or solvent weld?
Did you use thread sealant on the caps (preferably PTFE paste, not tape)?
How far below the wate line does the siphon pipe terminate in the sump? It should only be an inch or so during normal operation.
How far above the siphon intake is the water level in the overflow box? Is it sucking in air?
 
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