Barfly
Custom User Title
You are fine to go 1" all the way. I have my 125 set up that way. Works so good, I have only the main siphon drawing water and the other 2 work as emergency drains. It's set up like a "Bean Animal", but runs like a "Herbie".
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
You are fine to go 1" all the way. I have my 125 set up that way. Works so good, I have only the main siphon drawing water and the other 2 work as emergency drains. It's set up like a "Bean Animal", but runs like a "Herbie".
JoshuaG
New member
Cool thanks! I have the fittings to do both, here is if I go 1.5" down from the bulkhead.
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Barfly
Custom User Title
I should also add that I used mesh tube instead of a durso type for the siphon. Here is the link to the tube http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/821/Mesh-Tubes-Plastic/mesh tube/0
Running a skimmer from the siphon
Running a skimmer from the siphon
Hi T-Hunter et all
Re my posts on pages 80-81 regarding my problems plumbing a skimmer directly into the full siphon line.
I originally tried to T off the siphon line to gravity my external skimmer but due to hydraulic lock issues around the T I could never get this to work reliably.
Eventually gave up and drilled a 4th hole for a dedicated skimmer siphon bulkhead.
Well that worked a treat. Got rid of all the air lock problems completely.
However, some points to note if you want to try this. I found that the pipe feeding the skimmer must have continuous fall. Any vertical rise along the path would kill of the ability to start from power down. Any pooling of water in the pipe stuffs things completely.
Here's the plumbing at the end of my display-
The black spiral hose is the skimmer feed. No unions on this line as I needed all the height I could get to ensure a continuous fall through the wall cavity and on into the garage.
The hose can be removed from the barb and at the skimmer when required.
This one shows the fall in the spiral hose connecting to the skimmer. As you can see its not that much but it starts reliably 100%.
Any droop in the hose which would allow water to pool at the loop would kill the siphons ability to restart.
The right hand spiral hose is the cup drain.
Here's the skimmer install so you can get an idea whats going on. The end of the display is against the wall in the next room.
A 90mm pipe embedded in the wall allows cabling to pass through to the display. The skimmer output is a gentle fall straight through to the sump about 5ft away.
Hope this info helps someone
Cheers
malcom
Running a skimmer from the siphon
Hi T-Hunter et all
Re my posts on pages 80-81 regarding my problems plumbing a skimmer directly into the full siphon line.
I originally tried to T off the siphon line to gravity my external skimmer but due to hydraulic lock issues around the T I could never get this to work reliably.
Eventually gave up and drilled a 4th hole for a dedicated skimmer siphon bulkhead.
Well that worked a treat. Got rid of all the air lock problems completely.
However, some points to note if you want to try this. I found that the pipe feeding the skimmer must have continuous fall. Any vertical rise along the path would kill of the ability to start from power down. Any pooling of water in the pipe stuffs things completely.
Here's the plumbing at the end of my display-
The black spiral hose is the skimmer feed. No unions on this line as I needed all the height I could get to ensure a continuous fall through the wall cavity and on into the garage.
The hose can be removed from the barb and at the skimmer when required.
This one shows the fall in the spiral hose connecting to the skimmer. As you can see its not that much but it starts reliably 100%.
Any droop in the hose which would allow water to pool at the loop would kill the siphons ability to restart.
The right hand spiral hose is the cup drain.
Here's the skimmer install so you can get an idea whats going on. The end of the display is against the wall in the next room.
A 90mm pipe embedded in the wall allows cabling to pass through to the display. The skimmer output is a gentle fall straight through to the sump about 5ft away.
Hope this info helps someone
Cheers
malcom
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john_blaze
New member
I am having trouble getting my overflow to drain more than a trickle...
I am guessing that I am not getting a good enough seal on my caps in order for a siphon to be created...?
Any ideas/suggestions on what might be going on? Tips on getting a good seal for the caps?
I am running 1" pipes if it matters....
Thanks for any/all help
:beer:
I am guessing that I am not getting a good enough seal on my caps in order for a siphon to be created...?
Any ideas/suggestions on what might be going on? Tips on getting a good seal for the caps?
I am running 1" pipes if it matters....
Thanks for any/all help
:beer:
bigffish
New member
overflow depth?
overflow depth?
Thought I would toss this out, I would like your opinion on the depth of my external overflow box. The highest standpipe is of course the emergency drain, the lip of the elbow is 5" off the base of the overflow, is 6" deep enough or should I go a little deeper?
Thank for your input! Bigffish
overflow depth?
Thought I would toss this out, I would like your opinion on the depth of my external overflow box. The highest standpipe is of course the emergency drain, the lip of the elbow is 5" off the base of the overflow, is 6" deep enough or should I go a little deeper?
Thank for your input! Bigffish
coralcruze
New member
Hey Beananimal... you may remember that I posted about a month ago with plans to build a waterfall tank using your concept of a failsafe plumbing design. well I built the tank myself and it came out pretty good so far. here are the pictures.
you may recall that the main tank will have two side wall which will waterfall into side trays. as you can see from the above photo they overflow into a tray on the right and a tray on the left side of the tank. the trays will double as frag trays and will be lit from under the tank cabinet itself. here is a pic of the right side tray:
HERE IS THE FIRST WITH THE TRAY COVER IN THE CLOSED POSITION:
HERE IS A PIC WITH THE TRAY COVER IN THE OPEN:
FINALLY HERE ARE SOME SHOTS OF THE SUMP BELOW, NOTICE THE SUMP IS ALREADY DRILLED FOR 1" BULKHEADS TWO ON EACH SIDE:
HERE IS A 3D RENDERING OF WHAT I PLAN TO DO:
HERE IS THE CLOSEUP OF THE STOCKMAN STAND PIPE:
so I havent drilled the trays yet and have lots of questions befor I do. Plumbing is NOT my better subject and so I am very aprehensive
The tank I have figured should only need about 5-600 GPH to overflow the two side walls the main flow in the tank will be handled by a separate closed loop system. So I don't anticipate more than 300 GPH into each side tray. ok so now for the questions that I have...
#1. since the flow is pretty low into each tray will the siphon ever really act as a full siphon with such small GPH flow with this system?
The trays are both 6" deep from the bottom to the very underside of the tray covers. What I'm hoping to get is a maximum water level in the tray at a constant 5.5"-5.75" will this be possible? The stockman standpipe will be constructed out of PVC 1" pipe, a 1x1.5" bushing and a coupler to complete what you see in the rendering above. The weir of the standpipe will be about .25" all the way around the pipe. I plan on making a disk cover out of black acrylic to be placed over the second pipe (non siphon pipe). At the top of the cover I plan on drilling a hole to act as the 1/4" pipe loop in your design.
#2. can I eliminate that 1/4" loop and instead just cut the standpipe to the correct hight and drill a small hole at the top?
#3 at what hight should the differance between the two pipes be?
I guess I'm not fully understanding your system and probably won't until I have it built and running and can see it for myself However, I need to drill holes in the tank which is not reversable and I am worried as all of the work I have done thusfar will be wasted. Hoping you can clarify it all for me.
BTW, the emergency line will be installed also but the diagram only shows the two main lines for now. I appologize now for the long post and thank you.
you may recall that the main tank will have two side wall which will waterfall into side trays. as you can see from the above photo they overflow into a tray on the right and a tray on the left side of the tank. the trays will double as frag trays and will be lit from under the tank cabinet itself. here is a pic of the right side tray:
HERE IS THE FIRST WITH THE TRAY COVER IN THE CLOSED POSITION:
HERE IS A PIC WITH THE TRAY COVER IN THE OPEN:
FINALLY HERE ARE SOME SHOTS OF THE SUMP BELOW, NOTICE THE SUMP IS ALREADY DRILLED FOR 1" BULKHEADS TWO ON EACH SIDE:
HERE IS A 3D RENDERING OF WHAT I PLAN TO DO:
HERE IS THE CLOSEUP OF THE STOCKMAN STAND PIPE:
so I havent drilled the trays yet and have lots of questions befor I do. Plumbing is NOT my better subject and so I am very aprehensive
The tank I have figured should only need about 5-600 GPH to overflow the two side walls the main flow in the tank will be handled by a separate closed loop system. So I don't anticipate more than 300 GPH into each side tray. ok so now for the questions that I have... #1. since the flow is pretty low into each tray will the siphon ever really act as a full siphon with such small GPH flow with this system?
The trays are both 6" deep from the bottom to the very underside of the tray covers. What I'm hoping to get is a maximum water level in the tray at a constant 5.5"-5.75" will this be possible? The stockman standpipe will be constructed out of PVC 1" pipe, a 1x1.5" bushing and a coupler to complete what you see in the rendering above. The weir of the standpipe will be about .25" all the way around the pipe. I plan on making a disk cover out of black acrylic to be placed over the second pipe (non siphon pipe). At the top of the cover I plan on drilling a hole to act as the 1/4" pipe loop in your design.
#2. can I eliminate that 1/4" loop and instead just cut the standpipe to the correct hight and drill a small hole at the top?
#3 at what hight should the differance between the two pipes be?
I guess I'm not fully understanding your system and probably won't until I have it built and running and can see it for myself
However, I need to drill holes in the tank which is not reversable and I am worried as all of the work I have done thusfar will be wasted. Hoping you can clarify it all for me.BTW, the emergency line will be installed also but the diagram only shows the two main lines for now. I appologize now for the long post and thank you.
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TheFishMan65
New member
Can you get three drain holes in the 46 bowfront? If so this will work. If not look at the Herbie design.
PurdueMAN_08
Critter Kreeper
Not to change the subject but I used beans design on my tank and I LOVE IT!! Very silent and happy with the results. Thanks BEAN!
coralcruze
New member
can anyone offer any suggestions to my questions to Bean above?
Yes, I can drill the holes in the back of the tank without problem.
If i go side to side with the overflow, where should i drill for the return?
Would i be better going with smaller pipes and bulkheads. Any recommendations?
I plan on using a mag 7 pump.
thanks
TheFishMan65
New member
coral sorry not familiar enough to help
bama - I don't have one of these but I understand the plumbing. If it was my tank I would do a near coast to coast overflow in the middle and have a return on each end. You could also do over the top for the returns. Whatever you decide just remember a siphon break
I would also plan 1.5 inch plumbing from what I have read (at a minimum least for the open drain).
bama - I don't have one of these but I understand the plumbing. If it was my tank I would do a near coast to coast overflow in the middle and have a return on each end. You could also do over the top for the returns. Whatever you decide just remember a siphon break
I would also plan 1.5 inch plumbing from what I have read (at a minimum least for the open drain).
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
@coralcruze
A few thoughts
The water level in the trays will be set by the intake height of the open channel. The siphon intake should be lower, so that it is forced to start before the open channel robs the flow.
You are cutting it close with the depth, it leaves little room for the emergency intake.
If you don't use tubing for the fail-safe air lock, and isntead just drill a hole in the cap, the water will have to full cover the hole for the fail-safe to kick in. That leaves little to no room during a high water event. You also run the chance of the air hole creating a vortex and drawing in air, breaking the fail-safe siphon. There are so many variables, you will just have to test it and plan to add tubing if needed.
However, the main problem I see in your plans is the fact that there is no way to ensure a constant flow to TWO isolated trays! If the flows are fairly constant, then the system may be able to find a balance, but if they fluctuate too much then one or both trays will need constant adjustment. Again, there are too many variables to predit how much flow difference will cause an imbalance large enough to throw the system into fail-safe or under flow (siphon loss) condition. Trial and error is going to be the only way to see if it works.
A few thoughts
The water level in the trays will be set by the intake height of the open channel. The siphon intake should be lower, so that it is forced to start before the open channel robs the flow.
You are cutting it close with the depth, it leaves little room for the emergency intake.
If you don't use tubing for the fail-safe air lock, and isntead just drill a hole in the cap, the water will have to full cover the hole for the fail-safe to kick in. That leaves little to no room during a high water event. You also run the chance of the air hole creating a vortex and drawing in air, breaking the fail-safe siphon. There are so many variables, you will just have to test it and plan to add tubing if needed.
However, the main problem I see in your plans is the fact that there is no way to ensure a constant flow to TWO isolated trays! If the flows are fairly constant, then the system may be able to find a balance, but if they fluctuate too much then one or both trays will need constant adjustment. Again, there are too many variables to predit how much flow difference will cause an imbalance large enough to throw the system into fail-safe or under flow (siphon loss) condition. Trial and error is going to be the only way to see if it works.
coralcruze
New member
Thanks bean for your thoughtful responce although its not exactly what I wanted to hear I kinda figured this responce as there are alot of variables with my tank. I am however, going to assume that I will get pretty consistant flow from one tray to the other because I have the entire tank on some high strength leveling legs (6 of them) so I should be able to controle the flow over the two sides pretty evenly... If however it does not for some reason I could always plumb a 1 1/2" pipe with bulkheads on the back of the tank to connect from one tray to the other to keep a more constant flow between one tray and the other.
Could you give me an idea though about the specific hight differances between the full siphon, the failsafe and the emergency??? even if its a range, I just need to know what I should start with. for example 1/8", 1/4" differance or more??? also do you know how many MINIMAL GPH it will take to start a full siphon using 1" pipe? I am assuming that I will have somewhere between 300-500 GPH flowing over each side wall... In theory can't I just close the ball valve more if the flow is too low?
I guess I am fully commited to this system by now and hope to get it tweaked in just right to call this a success. I realize that there aren't any guarantees with this tank LOL... I 'll keep you posted as plumbing should begin sometime next week when I get all of the fittings. wish me luck.
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150gal re-set
150gal re-set
Hello BeanAnimal,
I have been reading this really great post and have a few questions. We are retrofitting a current setup. Presently we have a 150gal reef tank with a 55 gal sump directly below. We had the DT drilled in the bottom centerline. One hole is our overflow in which we installed a 1" standpipe and topped it off with a 4" PVC drain hub, in which I cut slots all around and mounted a drain cover on top. This standpipe is located about 18" from one end and in a centerline of the tank. The other is just another 1" standpipe which rises to just below the water top water level and has a 90 degree elbow on top pushing water flow across the top toward the overflow. This standpipe is located about 6" from the other end wall. The external pump is located on a shelf directly below and we just plumbed a 1" pipe up over the top of the sump to pull the return water out. This has always been a noisy PITA and had to be constantly adjusted due to all the variables.
We have now set up a new 75 gallon sump tank. I have located the new tank behind the DT in the next room, so the rear wall of the DT is in the same vertical line as the rear wall of the sump tank. We also located the sump tank elevation so that the top of the sump tank is located at the same height as the bottom of the DT. Nothing has been drilled yet. I wanted to build a new overflow and drill the rear wall of the DT and have the pipes exit the rear of the DT with a 90 degree elbow and drop directly down and into the sump. The sump tank has not yet been partitioned. So we are trying to figure out the best way to partition the 48" sump tank and where to drill and drop the three 1.5" pipes from the DT? Also, Where should I drill and install my sump return line (s) if I am using an external pump. I want my protein skimmer to be in one of the compartments in the sump and I wanted to also incorporate a fuge with some sand and live rock. At this point we just have the tanks sitting there with no holes drilled and am looking for a game plan for this setup. I was also thinking about having some plate glass cut to silicone it over the two existing holes in the tank bottom, but I wish I could use them for something more to enhance the build. I do have a direct drain below the DT and was thinking about maybe tying the two together with a tee and valve to use as a dump to do water changes? But how would I build the 2 drains so they won't get clogged when dumping and how can I disguise them in the bottom of the tank?
150gal re-set
Hello BeanAnimal,
I have been reading this really great post and have a few questions. We are retrofitting a current setup. Presently we have a 150gal reef tank with a 55 gal sump directly below. We had the DT drilled in the bottom centerline. One hole is our overflow in which we installed a 1" standpipe and topped it off with a 4" PVC drain hub, in which I cut slots all around and mounted a drain cover on top. This standpipe is located about 18" from one end and in a centerline of the tank. The other is just another 1" standpipe which rises to just below the water top water level and has a 90 degree elbow on top pushing water flow across the top toward the overflow. This standpipe is located about 6" from the other end wall. The external pump is located on a shelf directly below and we just plumbed a 1" pipe up over the top of the sump to pull the return water out. This has always been a noisy PITA and had to be constantly adjusted due to all the variables.
We have now set up a new 75 gallon sump tank. I have located the new tank behind the DT in the next room, so the rear wall of the DT is in the same vertical line as the rear wall of the sump tank. We also located the sump tank elevation so that the top of the sump tank is located at the same height as the bottom of the DT. Nothing has been drilled yet. I wanted to build a new overflow and drill the rear wall of the DT and have the pipes exit the rear of the DT with a 90 degree elbow and drop directly down and into the sump. The sump tank has not yet been partitioned. So we are trying to figure out the best way to partition the 48" sump tank and where to drill and drop the three 1.5" pipes from the DT? Also, Where should I drill and install my sump return line (s) if I am using an external pump. I want my protein skimmer to be in one of the compartments in the sump and I wanted to also incorporate a fuge with some sand and live rock. At this point we just have the tanks sitting there with no holes drilled and am looking for a game plan for this setup. I was also thinking about having some plate glass cut to silicone it over the two existing holes in the tank bottom, but I wish I could use them for something more to enhance the build. I do have a direct drain below the DT and was thinking about maybe tying the two together with a tee and valve to use as a dump to do water changes? But how would I build the 2 drains so they won't get clogged when dumping and how can I disguise them in the bottom of the tank?
Just2Many
I love Saltwater!
I don't know if you guys can help but I have a question of how do I know if my U pipe is
a) the right size
b) long enough
c) if the intake pipe on the dry side of the overflow box is set right?
I ask because If I lose power I lose the siphon and there will be flood, or dry sump box.
a) the right size
b) long enough
c) if the intake pipe on the dry side of the overflow box is set right?
I ask because If I lose power I lose the siphon and there will be flood, or dry sump box.
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